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What Was the Church of England?

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What Was the Church of England?

Old 7th Sep 2018, 07:28
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Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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What Was the Church of England?

Exam question, 2030.....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...tify-as-c-of-e

Church in crisis as only 2% of young adults identify as C of E

The Church of England is facing a generational catastrophe with only 2% of young adults identifying with it, while seven out of 10 under-24s say they have no religion, research reveals.

C of E affiliation is at a record low among all age groups, and has halved since 2002, according to the British Social Attitudes survey. Far fewer actually attend church services on a regular basis. Meanwhile, the trend towards a secular society has increased over recent years. The BSA survey found that 52% of people had no religion in 2017 compared with 41% in 2002. However, the proportion last year was slightly down on 2016, when 53% said they had no religious affiliation.

The demographic breakdown in the new data is particularly unwelcome news for the church. Younger people are significantly less likely to identify with the C of E than older age groups, and evidence suggests that people rarely join organised religion in later life. The trend indicates that affiliation with the C of E could become negligible with successive generations.

People over the age of 65 are most likely to say they belong to the C of E. But at 30% it is still a minority, and the proportion has fallen from 52% in 2002. This older demographic also saw the biggest increase in those saying they had no religion, up from 18% in 2002 to 34% last year. The proportion of people of all ages identifying with the C of E has fallen from 31% in 2002 to 14% last year. The sharpest decline was among 45- to 54-year-olds, from 35% to 11%........

Richy Thompson of Humanists UK said: With just 2% of young adults now saying they belong to the C of E, it is simply untenable that the church continues to run a third of all our state schools, that Christian worship is enforced in all the other state schools, and that the church continues to have other privileges of establishment, including 26 bishops sitting as of right in the House of Lords.

“These figures must surely act as an urgent wake-up call for the need to have a renewed conversation about the place of religion or belief in British public life.”



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Old 7th Sep 2018, 07:37
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I would say the numbers that aren’t actually
religious would be much higher than stated. Quite a lot of young to middle age persons tick the box for a religion solely because they feel they should, or they were brought up that way by their parents.
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Old 7th Sep 2018, 07:49
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Tricky one. I don't attend church except marriage by invite and funerals or remembrance but I identify as CoE. More properly I believe in Christian values and admire the architecture. The trick is how to learn Christian values of you don't go to church and your parents can't or won't teach you. The only avenue remaining is school.

The problem then is how to teach young children Christ values without the fairy tales. There would be riots in the streets of we stopped celebrating the birth of Jesus - everyone enjoys the Christmas holiday even if different countries can't agree on a date.

Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 8th Sep 2018 at 08:06.
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Old 7th Sep 2018, 08:30
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It's a case of the chickens coming home to roost. If you educate the masses, teach them how to read and print the bible in a language that they all understand, then eventually they will think for themselves.

This video sums it up rather well. Apologies for the length but it's worth watching. If you remember the uproar that followed the release of the funniest film of the last century, you will enjoy it. Note which side of the argument engages in finger waving and disparaging remarks. The other side have the audacity to state that people should make up their own minds.

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Old 7th Sep 2018, 09:27
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Go back to ole Henry and he wanted to be head of the church in England not of England.
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Old 7th Sep 2018, 09:37
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Apparently I'm Anglican/Church of England. I do like the emblem/Cross of Saint George heraldry and crusades history. Parents asked me and brother when we were about 8/9 years old 'do you want to try Sunday School?'...on the proviso we made our own choice to go and if we wanted to go again or if we never wanted to go again was our choice. Last time I ever set foot in a church...I probably have a fear of one spontaneously combusting should I set foot in one now.
Anyways...religion is the perfect business model...selling salvation and no one ever comes back to ask for a refund

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Old 7th Sep 2018, 09:37
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Whether or not you are a member of the C of E or indeed have any religious faith whatsoever, the decline in the Church presents England with a serious problem

The Church is custodian of the finest collection of medieval buildings in the country, perhaps anywhere in the world. You don't have to be religious (I am not) to appreciate them and to understand the "spiritual" uplift to be gained by just sitting in one and looking around. By their nature those buildings are expensive to maintain, and that responsibility is falling on an ever diminishing number of people. Of course there will be the usual cynical comments that the Church is fabulously wealthy and could afford to pay for the upkeep of all of its buildings, but I am absolutely certain this is not true. In any case why should it have to pay to maintain a building so that people can have an attractive venue for their weddings? Of course they could all be given back to the wealthier Catholic Church from whom they were nicked in the first place, but I somehow don't think that would be a popular move in the present climate!

The fact is unless the decline in numbers is reversed (unlikely in the short term) something is going to have to be done at a national level if we are not to lose this precious and irreplaceable resource.
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Old 7th Sep 2018, 09:53
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The usual response of the establishment in such cases, whether it be opera for them to listen to or buildings which they can take ownership of and then live in as “grace and favour” homes, is to say it is part our “national heritage” and tax the lower and middle taxes to pay for it.

We don’t give in a medieval theme park - and many ruins are more scenic than those kept past their natural lifespan. Otherwise, as with many older buildings, they can be sold off to the nouveau riche to renovate - or sold to rich foreigners to ship home and rebuild.


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Old 7th Sep 2018, 10:02
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Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav View Post
Whether or not you are a member of the C of E or indeed have any religious faith whatsoever, the decline in the Church presents England with a serious problem

The Church is custodian of the finest collection of medieval buildings in the country, perhaps anywhere in the world. You don't have to be religious (I am not) to appreciate them and to understand the "spiritual" uplift to be gained by just sitting in one and looking around. By their nature those buildings are expensive to maintain, and that responsibility is falling on an ever diminishing number of people. Of course there will be the usual cynical comments that the Church is fabulously wealthy and could afford to pay for the upkeep of all of its buildings, but I am absolutely certain this is not true. In any case why should it have to pay to maintain a building so that people can have an attractive venue for their weddings? Of course they could all be given back to the wealthier Catholic Church from whom they were nicked in the first place, but I somehow don't think that would be a popular move in the present climate!

The fact is unless the decline in numbers is reversed (unlikely in the short term) something is going to have to be done at a national level if we are not to lose this precious and irreplaceable resource.

knock them hem done and build the homes that are needed? That’s my preferred option.
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Old 7th Sep 2018, 10:02
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Dotted around the UK (and many other parts of the world) are castles and forts. No longer serving the purpose for which they were built, but now tourist attractions maintained by governments and private enterprise. I imagine the churches of the world will eventually go the same way.
Marvelous. May it continue and we can lose the scourge of organised religion forever.
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Old 7th Sep 2018, 10:22
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Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav View Post
Whether or not you are a member of the C of E or indeed have any religious faith whatsoever, the decline in the Church presents England with a serious problem

The Church is custodian of the finest collection of medieval buildings in the country, perhaps anywhere in the world. You don't have to be religious (I am not) to appreciate them and to understand the "spiritual" uplift to be gained by just sitting in one and looking around. By their nature those buildings are expensive to maintain, and that responsibility is falling on an ever diminishing number of people. Of course there will be the usual cynical comments that the Church is fabulously wealthy and could afford to pay for the upkeep of all of its buildings, but I am absolutely certain this is not true. In any case why should it have to pay to maintain a building so that people can have an attractive venue for their weddings? Of course they could all be given back to the wealthier Catholic Church from whom they were nicked in the first place, but I somehow don't think that would be a popular move in the present climate!

The fact is unless the decline in numbers is reversed (unlikely in the short term) something is going to have to be done at a national level if we are not to lose this precious and irreplaceable resource.
I like the way you write
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Old 7th Sep 2018, 10:38
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Y'now, concepts like saints, prophets, healers, miracle workers, etc, etc are so 17th century, and modern science has had a lot to do with that. The churches need to get with the times and I'm not talking twitter/facebook. There is still no adequate explanation for the how and why on all being somehow inexplicably connected with each other within this tiny universe - and I don't mean the internet.
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Old 7th Sep 2018, 11:13
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Church of England? That came about so that Henry VIII could get his end away with other ladies, yeah? Now attempts to be a "moral authority" - hahahahaha...

Talk to an imaginary person in the street, you are mentally disturbed. Talk to an imaginary person in a church, you are religious.
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Old 7th Sep 2018, 14:58
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At the rather tender age of 8, Mummy decided that my behaviour might improve if I attended our local C of E. The choirmaster was pleased to have another lesser warbler, and duly cassocked and surplice clad, I took my place in the stalls. Some years later, before practice, I would clamber on to the organ stool and attempt to knock out a fair rendition of 12th Street rag. (Dad was a pianist.) but I found that the stops and manuals could not cope with the strain of incessant percussion and I backed off. At around the same time, hangman, regularly executed clandestinely behind a psalter, almost became my undoing when I was determined to finish off my opponent and did not hear the introduction to the Nunc Dimittis. In a passive sort of way, I did not adopt the faith at that time and existed in the wilderness for another 20 years before falling over my own Damascus Road.

So, perhaps we are not as "pre-destined" or "selected" as we once were? that may be the real reason, I am still working on the answer.

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Old 7th Sep 2018, 22:46
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I believe in Christian calves
What are "Christian calves?"

(I do recall an agnostic, dyslexic farmer who wrote that he didn't believe in goats).
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Old 8th Sep 2018, 12:58
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evidence suggests that people rarely join organised religion in later life.
Which is why religions are so keen to indoctrinate children. Just like tobacco companies they know that if they don't get them hooked at a young age they likely never will. Religion should be kept out of schools and children allowed to make up their own minds once they are old enough instead of simply being born into their parents religion.
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Old 8th Sep 2018, 13:24
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Children are also taught history, science, biology, medicine, and Darwinism, through official government education establishments, elements of which are often proved untrue in later years, The teaching of Christianity and other Religions are providing a perspective on life, death and immortality, elements of which may or may not be proved untrue in later years. Applying current knowledge does not render the subject absolute fact.

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Old 8th Sep 2018, 16:51
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I believe that many years ago, when I was at school, there was a law or regulation which compelled schools to set aside one period a week for religious instruction.
This duty fell to our headmaster, a Dr. Whi....., who had a Phd. in Divinity.
He used the period available to lead us in a discussion of politics; not once did he mention anything to do with religion.
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Old 8th Sep 2018, 16:54
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I see religion as two parallel teachings, one a code for living and the other a set of fairy tales. Those fairy tales, or ancient history, as set out in the various bibles are set out quite separately from history lessons - Greeks, Romans etc. As a child I never made a connection between these two strands of history.

The problem therefore is to teach cultural values without invoking fairy tales.
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Old 8th Sep 2018, 18:05
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
The problem therefore is to teach cultural values without invoking fairy tales.
Well I think that is sn impossible task, as those “cultural values” in Western Civ came about largely through the interplay of monarchy and aristocracy and the Church.
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