Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

Knottiness

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

Knottiness

Old 10th Jun 2018, 22:00
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Texas, like a whole other country
Posts: 428
Knottiness

In preparing for some camping/hunting/hiking trips, I've been drawn to refreshing my Boy Scout knowledge of useful and common knots. This was invigorated by my recent find at REI of the "Pro-Knot" learners card which I think has about 20 different knots detailed. I'm sorry for not being more exact about the count, but I found the layout a bit confusing.

Anyway, after working my way through most of them, I've sorta concluded that at this point in my life I really only need three knots: the bowline, square, and the sheet bend.

Sure, when I had a boat the tautline hitch and consrictor knot were helpful. The timber hitch looks useful the next time I have to wrestle a piece of something somewhere.

If I may ask the panel, what are your favourite knots, and why?
Carbon Bootprint is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2018, 22:09
  #2 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 77
Posts: 16,744
Figure of 8.
Reef.
Fisherman's
Another is the sheepshank . Tension and you have your shorter rope.

Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 10th Jun 2018 at 22:26.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2018, 22:21
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Richard Burtonville, South Wales.
Posts: 1,961
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Figure of 8.
Reef.
And one whose name escapes me but is useful for joining two ropes together.
Sheet bend.

Clove hitch and 2 halves is handy.

CG
charliegolf is online now  
Old 10th Jun 2018, 22:21
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,431
Round turn and two half hitches. And for boats a clove hitch is very useful, as you don't need to find the end of the rope in order to make a clove hitch and drop it over a bollard.
Gertrude the Wombat is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2018, 22:43
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Rugged Island
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Round turn and two half hitches. And for boats a clove hitch is very useful, as you don't need to find the end of the rope in order to make a clove hitch and drop it over a bollard.
In most cases such as you describe, a lighterman’s hitch is preferable, not least for its ability to undo under strain (eg the tide is gong out farther than your warping accounted for). There is considerable debate about loading the clove hitch.

My favourites are the bowline, lighterman’s, round turn, half hitch, rolling hitch, and the figure of eight. I’m not sure there’s much I couldn’t achieve with those alone.
Father Dick Byrne is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2018, 22:43
  #6 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Texas, like a whole other country
Posts: 428
Figure of 8.
That one is on the little card thingie, too. However, I can never seem to do it successfully. Is there a secret I'm overlooking? And what does it offer that can't be found in the bowline, square knot or sheet bend?
Carbon Bootprint is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2018, 22:53
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Swindon, Wilts,UK
Posts: 563
Figure of 8.
That one is on the little card thingie, too. However, I can never seem to do it successfully. Is there a secret I'm overlooking? And what does it offer that can't be found in the bowline, square knot or sheet bend?
It's good for making bights in manmade ropes, a double figure of eight tends to slip less than a bowline. It's used a lot in climbing and working at heights for that reason
Windy Militant is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2018, 23:05
  #8 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Texas, like a whole other country
Posts: 428
Originally Posted by Windy Militant View Post
It's good for making bights in manmade ropes, a double figure of eight tends to slip less than a bowline. It's used a lot in climbing and working at heights for that reason
Thanks for that. I guess I need to give the Figure 8 a bit more study and practice.
Carbon Bootprint is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2018, 23:19
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,431
Originally Posted by Father Dick Byrne View Post
In most cases such as you describe, a lighterman’s hitch is preferable, not least for its ability to undo under strain (eg the tide is gong out farther than your warping accounted for). There is considerable debate about loading the clove hitch.
Ah, almost none of my boating has been done in tidal waters (and when it has been other people have usually been in charge). Although I am aware of the risks of having a 30 ton narrowboat tied up when some twit starts emptying the lock - the correct knot to use to hold a boat against the side of a lock is "none".
Gertrude the Wombat is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2018, 00:45
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: CYWH (Victoria)
Posts: 5,540
My favourite for joining two ropes is the Zeppelin Bend, partly for its utility and partly for its history.

A Zeppelin bend (also Rosendahl bend) is a general-purpose bend knot. It is a secure, easily tied, and jam-resistant way to connect two ropes. Though its simplicity and security may be matched by other bends, it is unique in the ease with which it is untied, even after heavy loading, by pulling the opposing bridges away from each other.

Both names for this knot stem from its alleged use to moor airships: a Zeppelin being a rigid-bodied type of airship, and Charles Rosendahl being the US Navy officer who allegedly insisted it be used to moor airships under his command.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeppelin_bend


Last edited by India Four Two; 11th Jun 2018 at 01:10.
India Four Two is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2018, 05:28
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Smaller Antipode
Age: 86
Posts: 25
Reef knot - to keep the patio table umbrella folds safe from the wind when it is stowed.

Bowline - seems to fit most of my needs now. " The rabbit comes out of the hole, around the tree, and back down the hole again "

Highwaymans Hitch - to tether the microlight to a fence, I have to hand start it with no parking brake so use chocks first, then stow them, get in, pull on the free end and " Here we go, Into The Wide Blue Yonder" Only works at home base of course, otherwise you lose a lot of ropes !
ExSp33db1rd is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2018, 07:13
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: here
Posts: 222
Try Grog Knots (sp) there's an app and I think website that takes you through all the knots step by step.

HTC
herman the crab is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2018, 09:52
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Midlands
Posts: 186
I was told not to worry by a yorkshire fisherman; his motto was "if you can't tie a knot - tie a lot". Works for me.
Tone is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2018, 12:08
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Japan
Age: 68
Posts: 204
Trucker's hitch followed by tieing off with a clove hitch on the hook. That always makes onlooker's jaws drop. The trucker's hitch gives you a 2:1 advantage when tensioning a rope over a load. If you want 4:1 you can tie two, Tie off with a clove hitch to keep the tension, then go back over to tie the other side. Repeat along the length of the load. These two are made along the length of the rope. You don't need to find or thread the end of the rope. They all fall apart when the tension comes off.

Rope & Sheet was a requirement when I started driving lorries. I still use the knots when roping a load on the roof rack. Sheeting, thankfully not.
Yamagata ken is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2018, 13:34
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: on the ground
Posts: 337
I've been sailing dinghies to large trailer sailers since I was a teenager.
The ideal knot stays where you put it until it comes undone easily when you want to remove it.

The key knots I need are the bowline, to form a loop which doesn't constrict, and the figure 8, to form a stopper knot which prevents a line coming out of a block or similar. Both are easy to undo.

Everyone should be able to tie a reef (square) knot, but they have remarkably little application on a yacht (American: sailboat), since most lines are dedicated to a job and are already the correct length, plus a knot won't run through a block (pulley)! A hard tightened reef knot can be difficult to undo.

Because I sail mostly solo, I rig a single painter (a rope used to tie the boat to jetties) about 1.6 times the length of the boat down each side, attached at both bow and stern. When bringing a trailer sailer in to a jetty, I use a modified boat hook to drop the painter behind a post or cleat on the jetty, then put it over a second post and sort out tieing the boat off properly once I am ashore. Because the primary painter is attached to the boat at both ends and I sail mainly in non-tidal waters, I can use a clove hitch for the endless loop painter; it uses up length and controls movement of the painter (and hence the boat) along the jetty, with no risk of it releasing the boat unintentionally. But that lighterman's hitch is something I'll remember.

A sheet bend can be useful in place of a reef knot, either for joining ropes of different sizes or where a tightened reef knot may be difficult to get apart; structurely it's a variant on the bowline.
nonsense is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2018, 14:05
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Not where I want to be
Age: 67
Posts: 252
Per
Ancient Mariner is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2018, 14:39
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,416


This is my only example and kept with special care. It dates from my time at BA, tech instructing on Tristar and 744s. One of my (many!) irritating habits was to offer our 'customers' reassurance re. exams with "Worry not!" One fine gentleman ("My name is Bond ... Frank Bond") presented me with this exquisite example of craftsmanship - my very own "Worry (K)not". I believe that the 'working end is a 'Turk's Head' ?? Whatever it is, it is treasured and, if Capt Bond is amongst us, Thank you, again.
Cornish Jack is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2018, 16:03
  #18 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 77
Posts: 16,744
Originally Posted by ExSp33db1rd View Post
Bowline - seems to fit most of my needs now. " The rabbit comes out of the hole, around the tree, and back down the hole again "
Being a master mariner, rabbits and trees were scarce where my old man was. There was only one way he could make a bowline, that was to pass the end of the rope around his waist, left to right, and then make the knot. He said he could never do it in front on its own. Mind you, round your waist was probably the most likely use.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2018, 16:07
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 68
Posts: 390
As someone who's done a bit of sailing and a bit of caving (which involves rope work that's very similar to that used in climbing) I'd vote for the figure-of-eight as the very best all around knot. You can tie it as a good stopper, for things like the ends of sheets on a boat, or as a stopper on a climbing rope, you can tie it on a bight to get a loop with a knot that is stronger than a bowline (because the radius of bend of the rope in the tensioned bit of the know is greater, so less rope strength is lost), and best of all, a figure-of-eight tends to be easier to untie after it's been under load than many other knots.

On the latter point, I remember being taught as a Scout that a reef knot or a sheet bend were easy to untie, but my experience has been that reef knots, in particular, can be pretty stubborn, especially when used for the purpose that their name implies, reefing sails.
VP959 is online now  
Old 11th Jun 2018, 17:29
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Ah, almost none of my boating has been done in tidal waters (and when it has been other people have usually been in charge). Although I am aware of the risks of having a 30 ton narrowboat tied up when some twit starts emptying the lock - the correct knot to use to hold a boat against the side of a lock is "none".
Years ago at Boulters Lock in Maidenhead the Lock Keeper had a small chopping axe under his desk for that very eventuality - reckoned at holiday weekends he used it daily... every Brit thinks they're a cross between Lord Nelson and Francis Chichester when they get on the water
Heathrow Harry is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.