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The Sea Shall Not Have Them - question about the watercraft

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The Sea Shall Not Have Them - question about the watercraft

Old 30th May 2018, 10:43
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There is/was an RAF Launch outside the Museum at Hendon powered by 2 Sea Griffons and another Sea Griffon inside...
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Old 30th May 2018, 11:16
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Originally Posted by sycamore View Post
There is/was an RAF Launch outside the Museum at Hendon powered by 2 Sea Griffons and another Sea Griffon inside...
Who can explain the third engine - was it an unconnected spare?
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Old 30th May 2018, 14:21
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You learn something new every day, thanks sycamore, pic taken at Hendon by Alan Clark (post on Key forum). Details of the Hendon boat here.

https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/researc...ons/rttl-2757/


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Old 30th May 2018, 16:29
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Cool

Originally Posted by sycamore View Post
There is/was an RAF Launch outside the Museum at Hendon powered by 2 Sea Griffons and another Sea Griffon inside...
At ATC camp at RAF Ballykelly in 1963, we were trucked to Londonderry one day where we had a trip on Lough Foyle on an RAF rescue launch which was powered by 2 Sea Griffons.
10 years later I had another trip (camp at Valley) out of Holyhead on a diesel powered RAF launch, but the best one was Gibraltar camp 1982 where we had a trip on a huge Rescue and Target Towing launch; don't know what it was powered by but it seemed twice the size of the launches on my previous trips and was commanded by an officer rather than an SNCO.
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Old 30th May 2018, 16:53
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When I was an ATC cadet, we were attached to an ASR oufit based in the small harbour in Porthcawl. Occasionally cadets were allowed to go out with them but, because the harbour dried out at low tide, the boats used to go out for a whole tide, about 6 hours. Presumably they used to give ASR coverage for places like Chivenor and St Athan so, if they were operating, a launch had to be available at all states of the tide, night and day. The boats they used were small sea plane tenders with two Perkins diesels. They were quite small and not really designed for the rough waters of the Bristol Channel. Watching them clearing the pier into incredibly rough seas was quite frightening. As a cadet who was rather prone to sea sickness I never volunteered for a trip.
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Old 30th May 2018, 23:35
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You learn something new every day, thanks sycamore, pic taken at Hendon by Alan Clark (post on Key forum). Details of the Hendon boat here.
I know marine engines are often painted in monotone, bright colours but I think there's something completely wrong in painting a Griffon in that garish yellow!
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Old 13th Jan 2021, 15:23
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The sea shall not have them

The sea shall not have them was a great film and highlighted the role played by the RAF Sailors of which little was known about and their efforts did not receive the plaudits they deserved. Like the Battle of Britain film it portrayed real incidents including the shooting up of a launch whilst rescuing downed Airmen. The Launches used in the film were known as Hants and Dorset’s and built out of wood by British Power Boats at Hythe, 68ft long and powered by three Power Sea Lions a marinised version of the W or Arrow Head Napier Lion aircraft engine.
Other styles of Launches were built by B.P.B. prior to the Hants and Dorset’s including the superb Whaleback and Launches in the Style of 102 which is now at the Portsmouth Naval Museum after being restored by a chap called Phil Clabburn who made a superb job of her. Other makes of launch were used by the RAF but after the war ended the RAF settled for the Hants and Dorset’s as the best out of the bunch and started a refurbishment programme this included changing the Three Lion engines for two RR Griffons painted yellow as an anti corrosion measure against a salt laden environment.
Vosper built a similar launch with a wooden Hull and Alloy Topsides powered by two Griffons because British Power Boats closed down in 1946. In regards to top speed it depends on who you believe however the fastest launch the RAF ever had was the Vosper built all Alloy 2772E which initially was experimental designated by the E and had two tuned Griffon Petrol Engines fitted, she apparently attained nearly 50kts unfortunately the Alloy Hull started to ripple so it was covered on the plaining surface with wood and Casco sheathed, this brought her top speed down to that of the Wooden Alloy top launches and only 2772E was built in the all alloy version. The E was removed and she was eventually disposed of.

Last edited by tramontana; 13th Jan 2021 at 16:54. Reason: Edited out repeat
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Old 13th Jan 2021, 16:10
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Originally Posted by Uncle Fred View Post
For some reason last evening I tucked into this 1954 WW2 film about the RAF's Air Sea rescue of downed airmen in the Channel and North Sea..
Where did you find it?

Edit: Found it on Amazon Prime Video. Thanks, I'll watch that this evening!

Last edited by double_barrel; 13th Jan 2021 at 16:37.
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Old 13th Jan 2021, 16:31
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When the PFA rally was held at Wroughton I saw a large ‘speedboat’ type vessel in one of the hangars with an RAF roundel on the bows. Sadly the hangar was not accessible and was well filled. Could this have been one of these beasties ?
David
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Old 13th Jan 2021, 16:34
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RTTL 2772E after disposal initially went to Harry Pounds to be scrapped however she eventually ended up in a Yard on Teesside along with a number of Griffon engines Gearboxes and sundry spares the chap who bought her intended to use her as a floating workshop to Service his Contracts on North Sea Oil Installations at the very beginning of the North Sea Oil boom, she sat in his Yard for a number of years completely stripped out ready for the conversion but eventually the Company went down the pan and she along with Griffons, G/boxes and other items for her were auctioned off. I believe the Griffons went to the Tractor pulling enthusiasts but the Hull was moved to a Scrapyard, I managed to locate the Scrapyard and came away with her Throttle Box which I still have in the shed. I also have an old nearly 3ft long R/C Veron model which I painted up to look like her.
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Old 13th Jan 2021, 16:41
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Where did you find it?
You will first need a copy of the TV Schedules for week commencing 27th May 2018
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Old 13th Jan 2021, 16:43
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Originally Posted by The AvgasDinosaur View Post
When the PFA rally was held at Wroughton I saw a large ‘speedboat’ type vessel in one of the hangars with an RAF roundel on the bows. Sadly the hangar was not accessible and was well filled. Could this have been one of these beasties ?
David
How long ago David, it could have been the 63ft Pinnace which ended up at Hendon as the large Vosper went straight to Hendon under her own power up the Thames and then by road.

Last edited by tramontana; 13th Jan 2021 at 17:14. Reason: Further info
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Old 13th Jan 2021, 19:03
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Early 1960s as an ATC cadet, we went out on the pinnace from Bridlington while at annual camp nearby. Low cloud, heavy rain, very strong wind and resultant extremely rough ride. Didn't actually throw up but apart from food poisoning in Portugal, never felt so ill. We were invited to spread ourselves around so I managed to get the bunk in the captain's cabin to survive the trip. Latterly, went to make it to the bridge and had to pass the open engine room with its two stinking hot diesel (?) engines roaring with an SAC loony minding them, grinning at us from under his ear defenders. Probably the fish and chip lunch beforehand was an error of judgement.

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Old 13th Jan 2021, 19:10
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Originally Posted by tramontana View Post
How long ago David, it could have been the 63ft Pinnace which ended up at Hendon as the large Vosper went straight to Hendon under her own power up the Thames and then by road.
I think it was only there three years 1991, 1992 and 1993 I think. I doubt it was ‘93 I think the buildings were specially secured that year together with most on site loos! So 91 or 92 at a guess.
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Old 13th Jan 2021, 19:32
  #35 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by tramontana View Post
The sea shall not have them was a great film and highlighted the role played by the RAF Sailors of which little was known about and their efforts did not receive the plaudits they deserved. Like the Battle of Britain film it portrayed real incidents including the shooting up of a launch whilst rescuing downed Airmen. The Launches used in the film were known as Hants and Dorset’s and built out of wood by British Power Boats at Hythe, 68ft long and powered by three Power Sea Lions a marinised version of the W or Arrow Head Napier Lion aircraft engine.
Other styles of Launches were built by B.P.B. prior to the Hants and Dorset’s including the superb Whaleback and Launches in the Style of 102 which is now at the Portsmouth Naval Museum after being restored by a chap called Phil Clabburn who made a superb job of her. Other makes of launch were used by the RAF but after the war ended the RAF settled for the Hants and Dorset’s as the best out of the bunch and started a refurbishment programme this included changing the Three Lion engines for two RR Griffons painted yellow as an anti corrosion measure against a salt laden environment.
Vosper built a similar launch with a wooden Hull and Alloy Topsides powered by two Griffons because British Power Boats closed down in 1946. In regards to top speed it depends on who you believe however the fastest launch the RAF ever had was the Vosper built all Alloy 2772E which initially was experimental designated by the E and had two tuned Griffon Petrol Engines fitted, she apparently attained nearly 50kts unfortunately the Alloy Hull started to ripple so it was covered on the plaining surface with wood and Casco sheathed, this brought her top speed down to that of the Wooden Alloy top launches and only 2772E was built in the all alloy version. The E was removed and she was eventually disposed of.
Most excellent follow-up Tramontana. Thank you for posting this.

@Double Barrel

Yes, I had found it on Prime.
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Old 13th Jan 2021, 19:49
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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My pleasure Fred,

David, it sounds as though it may have been the 63ft Pinnace which is parked alongside the larger RTTL outside the Museum at Hendon but that’s a guess on my part. The last time I was at Wroughton it was an MU and packed full of Lancasters, I was staying at RAF Hullavington which also was an MU and packed with Lancasters.
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Old 13th Jan 2021, 20:11
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RTTL 2772E in her prime showboating off Brighton.

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Old 14th Jan 2021, 05:35
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Thanks, I watched it last night. In some respects it's very dated, but I enjoyed it. A couple of things that struck me apart from the hilarious class hierarchy matching the military hierarchy, especially among wives and gf's.....

Procedures portrayed seemed ludicrously lax. I especially enjoyed the Captain stepping onboard, starting the engines and going without any attempt to decide where they were going or to call a course. Clothing, watches, behaviour seemed totally arbitrary with no structure. Similarly, in the search aircraft they were mostly chatting among themselves and exchanging cheery banter while occasionally and randomly glancing out of the windows. I would have thought that so soon after the war, many viewers would have recently served in the forces and know how daft this looked? Or by late in the war was it really as unstructured as this ?

I was gasping at the porpoising of the aircraft (Sea Otter) on the water during its takeoff and landing. I presume it was a real aircraft and real sequence, it looked like they came very close to losing it big time.
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Old 14th Jan 2021, 11:33
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G.M. d.b., in regards to the seemingly lack of discipline that’s small ships for you it was the same in the RN, but in the end you knew who was the Boss, a lot more men most probably would have volunteered to join the Marine Branch if it wasn’t for the problem of Mal de mer. The fast launches were basically flat bottomed to get the speed required which meant when stationary they rolled on wet grass so to speak. They could be rolling around the North Sea waiting under the Bomber streams in case someone ditched for hours. I don’t know if you go afloat but the North Sea with it being shallow can be very very rough and test the hardiest of men and boat.
In regards to the Otter landing, to me anyway looks real and as shown it was not unusual for Launches to have to Tow one home especially to Felixstowe where there was a Seaplane Base.
In regards to course setting it would be a matter of getting clear of the Harbour first and then set the course, throttles forward and off we go.
As I have indicated previously the Marine Branch does/did not receive the credit it should do /should have bearing in mind the number of lives it saved not only Airmen but Civilians too as they often went out when a Lifeboat could not or was busy elsewhere.
The film was as I understand it based on real events but not necessarily in the right order (Where have I heard that before)
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Old 14th Jan 2021, 13:12
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Thanks tramontana, I have a fair bit of sea time in a variety of craft. I had a friend who worked on the RN training boats Biter and Charger, he once showed me the pilotage planning for leaving the Mersey, they were incredibly detailed with precise course and time between wheel-overs worked-up, checked and double checked and then executed ruthlessly. Even in less formal sail training, we would not think of casting off without some sort of plan and briefing. But I will allow the film a bit of artistic license!

I would be interested in what others thought of the landing/take-off of the Sea Otter - it looked to me just like a 'PIO' that ends in tears on land.
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