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On the eve of war

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

On the eve of war

Old 15th Jun 2019, 06:14
  #1041 (permalink)  
 
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If the explosions were caused by mines attached to the ships above the waterline, the number of potential planners and executors is quite high. Attaching a mine to a huge tanker is not a sophisticated operation.

It is well-known that there are many groups in that region hating each other and even fighting each other (in Yemen). And many rich sheikhs sponsoring various groups. Considering every episode there as the "Iran vs. US &Co." confrontation is rather a straightforward simplification.
Amount and variety of various weapons in Yemen is endless: Western, Iranian, Russian, Chinese, etc. Just choose the "right" explosive to get whoever you want blamed.

Even answer to a traditional key question - "who benefit?" - does not narrow the focus too much. Perhaps Iran itself is the least beneficial, but there may be (are) pro-iranian groups of terrorists outside the country who operate rather independently. The same for anti-iranian folks (e.g. pro-saudi).

Unless some whistleblowers start speaking and putting evidence on the table, all those videos do not prove anything.
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 06:21
  #1042 (permalink)  
 
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They don't need to be enemies of America. They don't even need to be enemies of Israel. Iran doesn't but the people in power need to keep themselves in power by having enemies. It's that cynical.
Correct. Known as "Enemy partners": the 'enemy' is a 'partner' in keeping them in power. Their own people are always irrelevant in the whole scheme of things, other than to be led to believe that the "enemy" really is an 'enemy'. Look at the global groupings always at 'war' with each other in Orwell's 1984.
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 06:24
  #1043 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by A_Van View Post
...

Unless some whistleblowers start speaking and putting evidence on the table, ...
Whistleblowing in places like that would be fatal.
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 07:41
  #1044 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
Whistleblowing in places like that would be fatal.
Whistleblowing anywhere is bad for the health.

As weíre all entitled to have an opinion, mine is that itís interesting how certain some folk are on the strength of very little evidence. But then again, good evidence is of far less importance than good propaganda.

I donít have a clue who did it, but I do have a clear list of likely suspects.
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 08:20
  #1045 (permalink)  
 
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As previously mentioned, if the US have video of the boat alongside the tanker, why didn't they track the boat home to its base?
Could it be that they did track it, but the home base doesn't conform to the Iran blame theory?
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 08:51
  #1046 (permalink)  
 
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I realize that WW 2 wasn‘t a Hollywood movie; I‘m not so sure about the above video.
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 09:08
  #1047 (permalink)  
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https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-mi...-idUKKCN1TF1I4

Blast-hit Kokuka tanker being towed towards UAE - operator

DUBAI (Reuters) - The Kokuka Courageous, one of two tankers attacked with explosives on Thursday in the Gulf of Oman, is now safely under tow and heading towards the United Arab Emiratesí port of Kalba, south of Fujairah, the shipís operator said on Friday.

Bernhard Schulte Ship management, updated an earlier statement that had said the ship was heading to the port of Khor Fakkan. A company official said the ship had been rerouted because of congestion in both Khor Fakkan and Fujairah.

Earlier, the Dutch marine engineering firm Boskalis said it had been appointed to salvage the vessel and the other tanker, the Front Altair, operated by Frontline.

ďThe Kokuka Courageous is stable. Full damage assessments will be carried out, but there is no danger of her sinking and there is no loss of cargo or fuel containment,Ē the statement said.
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 09:16
  #1048 (permalink)  
 
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A recent Facebook post:

“The Editor
Readers’ Letters
Saturday, 15 June 2019

Dear Sir

Tanker sabotage

I freely admit that my knowledge of naval sabotage has been gleaned from the cinema but there is much that defies reason in the alleged Iranian attempt to sink tankers in the Gulf of Oman. Let’s ignore why Iran would possibly want to do it and concentrate on how it was done. Given the heightened tension in the area and reputed recent attacks on shipping I find it impossible to believe that ships do not have 24/7 onboard surveillance during transit in the Strait of Hormuz; why then since everyone seems to have a mobile phone with a camera is there no pictorial record of the crime being committed? If the mines were placed high on the hull one imagines that the perpetrators operated from a sizeable vessel which would be obvious on radar as would its approach to the tanker.
Why is the film of a mine being supposedly removed by the perpetrators taken from another vessel and not the ship under attack? Why was this intruder vessel not shadowed to its home port and the origin of the attackers positively identified. Why would anyone who had clandestinely placed explosive charges then decide to remove one and risk being identified? Why given the fact that limpet mines can function under water and damage created there potentially more destructive would saboteurs place them high above the waterline? Why incapacitate rather than destroy the target? None of it makes sense unless the agents wanted the devices to be seen. I keep asking myself is this happening in the Gulf of Oman or the Gulf of Tonkin?”

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Old 15th Jun 2019, 10:03
  #1049 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
As previously mentioned, if the US have video of the boat alongside the tanker, why didn't they track the boat home to its base?
Could it be that they did track it, but the home base doesn't conform to the Iran blame theory?
We are agreeing more and more. Knew you would come round
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 10:07
  #1050 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
We are agreeing more and more. Knew you would come round
I ask questions of both/all sides. Your questions seem to be always of one side.
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 11:12
  #1051 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234;10494273[b
]I ask questions of both/all sides.[/b] Your questions seem to be always of one side.
Is that true on all threads?
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 11:47
  #1052 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Stan Woolley View Post


Is that true on all threads?
Yes, except where trolls are concerned.
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 12:05
  #1053 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Yes, except where trolls are concerned.
It seems that youíre not so willing to question both sides when you think the other personís definitely wrong, itís easier to dismiss them as trolls.

I see how this works.
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 14:02
  #1054 (permalink)  
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[QUOTE=Stan Woolley;10494232]I find it impossible to believe that ships do not have 24/7 onboard surveillance during transit in the Strait of Hormuz; TRUE

a mobile phone with a camera is there no pictorial record of the crime being committed? at NIGHT and UNSEEN

If the mines were placed high on the hull one imagines that the perpetrators operated from a sizeable vessel which would be obvious on radar as would its approach to the tanker. POSSIBLE BUT THERE IS MASKING
Why is the film of a mine being supposedly removed by the perpetrators taken from another vessel and not the ship under attack? IS IT?

Why was this intruder vessel not shadowed to its home port and the origin of the attackers positively identified. SSM ENGAGEMENT ZONES?

Why would anyone who had clandestinely placed explosive charges then decide to remove one and risk being identified? TRUE

Why given the fact that limpet mines can function under water and damage created there potentially more destructive would saboteurs place them high above the waterline? SPECULATION - MAYBE THE INTENTION NOT TO SINK - UNDERWATER PLACEMENT AT SPEED DIFFICULT - ABOVE WATER ENSURES SEA WATER DOES NOT EXTINGUISH FIRES

Why incapacitate rather than destroy the target? SINKING MIGHT CREATE PROBLEMS FOR OWN VESSELS

None of it makes sense unless the agents wanted the devices to be seen. INDEED.
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 16:22
  #1055 (permalink)  
 
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Six „attacks“ on vessels is too much to be ignored, but too little damage to justify military intervention. Seems to me someone is trying to tickle someone. Trump must be fuming. Arab strategy!
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 17:06
  #1056 (permalink)  
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The lady doth protest too much...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48648788
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 17:36
  #1057 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Farrell View Post
The lady doth protest too much...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48648788
Oil prices jumped as much as 4% after Thursday's incident
Let's see, who gains the most by oil prices rising?
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 17:43
  #1058 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Let's see, who gains the most by oil prices rising?
Those who have shorted Oil prices.
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 18:13
  #1059 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Let's see, who gains the most by oil prices rising?
Well, any oil exporter. Saudi Arabia aren't the only one.

Personally speaking I don't think they have the sophistication to undertake this sort of operation.
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 18:15
  #1060 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
As previously mentioned, if the US have video of the boat alongside the tanker, why didn't they track the boat home to its base?
Could it be that they did track it, but the home base doesn't conform to the Iran blame theory?
Did the reported launching of the surface to air missile cause the US aerial assets to be withdrawn from the area?
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