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On the eve of war

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On the eve of war

Old 3rd Mar 2019, 19:22
  #961 (permalink)  
 
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I said a while ago that Ive lost track of which war we were on the eve of...

A thought: Im sure that the Delian League were doing a good job of controlling all the news when they were getting their people all worked up into seeing how nasty all those people in the Peloponnes were.

Nowt new then.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 19:48
  #962 (permalink)  
 
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This taking of the last Isis stronghold, you know "a week away" - repeat.....
longer than waiting for a Mueller report.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 22:56
  #963 (permalink)  
 
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They don't seem to be able to control Twitter and Facebook, racedo . Those two media outlets are still a "wild west" country - much to the chagrin of at least one Western government(with its capital in Washington)
They may well be able to control by way of restricting traffic flow between the user and the infrastructure in question - not subtly (although it may well be possible via a MITM attack) as I would be fairly confident in stating that for most generally used public keys they have the appropriate private keys to allow real-time decryption of social traffic. They'll have likely the signatures of all classified docs that they can pull from metadata.

My thoughts are that as they view the dissemination of possibly critical information via viral/social channels a real issue they have mechanisms in place that would block such traffic, as the first stage, what comes next I can also imagine (in the UK Black Omega etc.).

Just a guess.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 23:48
  #964 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by flash8 View Post
My thoughts are that as they view the dissemination of possibly critical information via viral/social channels a real issue they have mechanisms in place that would block such traffic, as the first stage, what comes next I can also imagine (in the UK Black Omega etc.).

Just a guess.
Tell us more of this
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 12:39
  #965 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Tell us more of this
Well, I can't speak for the imaginary Black Omega... but I'd expect other than your local Constabulary to turn up, and fast.

The subnets that traffic are sent to for Social media are generally fixed, at least until the traffic is internally multiplexed/load-balanced, that is the authorities are fully aware obviously that certain traffic is destined for example Facebook, a social network.

Facebook traffic is secured (encrypted) (or should I say the IP payload is) through the use of Public keys, Snowden evidence demonstrated (at least to me) the authorities hold the crypto-keys (private certificate counterparts) allowing traffic decryption in near real-time, I deduced this from the RIM/Blackberry Hack GCHQ performed at a G7 meeting in London (sharp cookies!) and extrapolated quite naturally they hold other keys - in fact, I am 100% certain, they were not even "leaked" but handed over almost willingly by Facebook and others (although they'll deny it naturally - problem is Journos don't ask the right questions even). Holding the keys means viewing (user) traffic that had been encrypted.

So now, traffic to the Facebook servers (in this example) can be decrypted, however, given the volume of traffic full deep inspection of the payload is unlikely, so they'll look for specific keywords (not hard to imagine, and not all in the English language) as well as the signatures of file (document) uploads - in fact in a wider context the signatures of all documents (even outside of Social media) are probably analysed to see if they match those of sensitive documents of which the authorities maintain a master list, this lookup is really fast almost real-time.

Anything of interest would either result in that connection being terminated or even modified before reaching its destination (the latter would require some forethought) - and source traceability would likely commence. As the source will likely be from a service provider (think Virgin, TalkTalk or whoever in the UK) I have no doubt they already have access to everything from the DHCP pools through to the MAC addresses (thus hardware types) of any potential target. Once they have the target IP they'll rewind back to all previous target metadata (assuming some is archived).

As for another thread mentioning power down of mobile devices and covert listening I'd be more interested in reverse-engineering the baseband (radio component) by companies such as Qualcomm - I don't believe removing power would keep a device enabled (let us be realistic here, open a phone and look at power source paths) however I do believe the sensors (GPS/Camera/Mic etc.) can be enabled remotely without the user being aware*, and in fact if you dig deep into some Samsung CVE's (just google CVE) there is interesting material that makes one think long and hard about what exactly some entities are capable of with your device.

This is just a guess, but I'd imagine no less!

*Easily RF detectable but who'd carry around such gear!
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 14:39
  #966 (permalink)  
 
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Once upon a time, when I worked for a very large and internationally famous radio comms supplier, I remember the day we got sneaky microphone enable and transmit silently facilities to work on radios being supplied to a major police force (at the request of the customer). This allowed an operator at a console to remotely key an officer's portable radio and to enable the microphone with none of the usual indicators on the unit, red led when transmitting for example. The theory was that this would allow an undercover officer to hang around areas where he was likely to collect intelligence and have the radio transmit the ambient conversations, noises etc relayed back to HQ without the officer compromising himself by fiddling with hidden PTT switches etc. The other, unofficial, theory was that it enabled a paranoid HQ staff to sneakily monitor officers, including perhaps conversations they were having with mates, crooks etc without the officer's knowledge.
As for mobile phones, none of them have the capability to completely disconnect the power source. Unlike the good old days when this was done via a mechanical switch, it is all done electronically. So after you think you have switched off, some circuits must be kept alive, otherwise the electronic switching back on wouldn't have the circuits to handle the request. Taking out the battery is the only way to ensure the phone is dead when you switch off. Unfortunately, even that option has been removed from the later generation of phones.
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 15:04
  #967 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Once upon a time, when I worked for a very large and internationally famous radio comms supplier, I remember the day we got sneaky microphone enable and transmit silently facilities to work on radios being supplied to a major police force (at the request of the customer). This allowed an operator at a console to remotely key an officer's portable radio and to enable the microphone with none of the usual indicators on the unit, red led when transmitting for example. The theory was that this would allow an undercover officer to hang around areas where he was likely to collect intelligence and have the radio transmit the ambient conversations, noises etc relayed back to HQ without the officer compromising himself by fiddling with hidden PTT switches etc. The other, unofficial, theory was that it enabled a paranoid HQ staff to sneakily monitor officers, including perhaps conversations they were having with mates, crooks etc without the officer's knowledge.
As for mobile phones, none of them have the capability to completely disconnect the power source. Unlike the good old days when this was done via a mechanical switch, it is all done electronically. So after you think you have switched off, some circuits must be kept alive, otherwise the electronic switching back on wouldn't have the circuits to handle the request. Taking out the battery is the only way to ensure the phone is dead when you switch off. Unfortunately, even that option has been removed from the later generation of phones.
Now I know why I prefer to use older phones where battery can be removed.
Course one of the phone signal blockers....... they are illegal will stop activation or lead lined container like used to use for transporting 35mm film in the old days could suffice.

No doubt with all this facial recognition technology I feel that in 10 years many people will be wearing the Burqua.
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 15:08
  #968 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
These were easy one to find but there are loads more They claimed it was just a bug that impacted GOP supporters.
https://www.engadget.com/2018/07/26/...-ban-is-a-bug/
Is your point "feature, not a bug" in this case? Are you asserting that the government is turning the switch off and on, Twitter, or someone else?
Facebook shut down a news service after Atlantic council (funders of UK Integrity Initiative) got CNN to do a piece on it.
Maffick is run by a US Citizen.
Integrity Iniative was not asked on its Fakebook account to provide details of its funding, nor is anybody else. II shrills and has organised UK briefings for White Helmets, those loveable ISIS supporters.
https://www.rt.com/news/451773-faceb...ia-censorship/
And your point is what: that governments, or private entities with a particular agenda are engaging in censorship?
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 15:15
  #969 (permalink)  
 
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As for mobile phones, none of them have the capability to completely disconnect the power source
Well, if the battery is not detachable (like on my trustworthy companion the Nokia 6310i) you could make the argument that power is not completely removed from the baseband, although poking around a bit I can't see any evidence this is the case, what I can see is a mass of undocumented code with privileged access to the OS and the external keystore - given signals sent over the Cellular network to the baseband I can see it compromising the security of your device (thus your data) and this was actually demonstrated with a "bug" in a Qualcomm baseband component - my educated guess is this is the tip of the iceberg - that in fact the baseband can be instructed to send instructions to the OS and flip device sensors for example and pass the data back to the network (and ultimately the interrogator).

Likely Stingrays (deployed likely at all major Ports) have additional capability beyond a standard Cellular operators equipment, scooping actual phone data, should I say hypothetical Stingrays

Ever wondered why your phone needs to be powered on at airports before passing security? It's for an information scoop... IMSI/IMEI and all sorts of rich material.

Anyway, I diverge... you are correct that power to the baseband cannot be conclusively proven to be disconnected when you press your power button in certain scenarios (possibly determined on a firmware switchable flag).
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 15:18
  #970 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by flash8 View Post
Anyway, I diverge... you are correct that power to the baseband cannot be conclusively proven to be disconnected when you press your power button in certain scenarios (possibly determined on a firmware switchable flag).
My Law Enforcement colleagues agree with this; without the battery removed, they can find it.
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 15:47
  #971 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
Is your point "feature, not a bug" in this case? Are you asserting that the government is turning the switch off and on, Twitter, or someone else?
And your point is what: that governments, or private entities with a particular agenda are engaging in censorship?
The bug was very selective in only targeting people of a certain political persuasion whom Twitter owner is very clear he and most of his employees do not support. US private business in inextricably linked with Govt as go against Govt and IRS come calling. Govt contracts disappear or pressure comes from elsewhere like congressinal investigations.

Private entities with particular agendas in US are censoring and actually working in a way where anti discimination laws get sidelined. Fakebook openly targets ads based on income / demographics / Colour but because it is social media and influences politicians it gets away with it.

As we have seen these Social Media companies diverge into political landscape they are censoring those against them, move a stage further and some get elected and it becomes even more controlled where "Free Speech" is only allowed providing we agree with it.
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 17:50
  #972 (permalink)  
 
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The real issue is straying too far from official narratives, you are then labelled as "fake news" and effectively ripe for censorship via existing social media policies, or as is likely new legislation. The mainstream media loves to call such folk "crackpots" or "conspiracy theorists", the problem for them is, they aren't believed anymore, sort of got themselves into this situation, liberal media credibility is at an all-time low in history.

As a kid, I used to read a lot of Sci-Fi (well mainly the comic 2000AD but must have read hundreds of issues or "progs" as they were known) and in the future dystopian Universes they portrayed (and this was the 80's) any straying from the official narrative was eliminated or should I say "liquidated", then we have that great epic "V for Vendetta", and to think it's not really that long ago!

I think the chances of war have lessened unless (massive social) dissent can be eliminated - if we had the sort of social media infrastructure we have now back in 2003 the Iraq war may never have occurred.
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 19:31
  #973 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by flash8 View Post
I think the chances of war have lessened unless (massive social) dissent can be eliminated - if we had the sort of social media infrastructure we have now back in 2003 the Iraq war may never have occurred.
Now that is an interesting comment by flash8. Social conscience and public dissent through IT more powerful than the nuclear deterrent to all out war. Take out IT and you get war.
Yet I don`t see this deterrent to have had any effect on Palestinian v Israeli relations. Syria has been devastated and the Taliban in Afghanistan continue fighting. Libya remains in turmoil since Gaddafi was removed from his sewer pipe and shot. There are troubles both North and South of the border in Mexico. Always something on in Africa and Indo- China. Now yet again sabre rattling between Pakistan and India. Saudi`s doing vanishing tricks with a journalist, right under the noses of everyone on the whole planet and not a spot of bother to anyone. Iran waving turbans and green banners and bulls and bears not bothering to lift their heads from the pile of dollars their heads are busy munching away.
So I would have thought with all this in full view of the have not`s, is it not more a matter that the chances of war have increased because IT has made social dissent can now travel right across the planet at the speed of light.
It was not there for the Russian Revolution, but somehow the starving masses of peasants got wind of what their Royalty was having for breakfast, let alone supper and decided were it to be spread evenly, even if it meant it would be thinly, it would be enough to avoid death from starvation.
Have you recently been to one of our Council operated recycling centers, have you seen the sort of stuff dumped there. Even our thousands of charity shops are highly selective. What about all that we buy from supermarkets with all the fancy packaging. We the have`s "consume" and the have not`s watch it all on the internet and starve. Some decide enough is enough and hoof it across deserts, seas and mountains to the lands of the have`s. How long can this go on for before the have`s decide not enough to spread, even thinly, and put up more than walls. Banners and flags waived in their marches are no more than a symbol of the unity for the common goal of becoming have`s.

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Old 4th Mar 2019, 21:54
  #974 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chronus View Post
Now that is an interesting comment by flash8. Social conscience and public dissent through IT more powerful than the nuclear deterrent to all out war. Take out IT and you get war.
Yet I don`t see this deterrent to have had any effect on Palestinian v Israeli relations. Syria has been devastated and the Taliban in Afghanistan continue fighting. Libya remains in turmoil since Gaddafi was removed from his sewer pipe and shot. There are troubles both North and South of the border in Mexico. Always something on in Africa and Indo- China. Now yet again sabre rattling between Pakistan and India. Saudi`s doing vanishing tricks with a journalist, right under the noses of everyone on the whole planet and not a spot of bother to anyone. Iran waving turbans and green banners and bulls and bears not bothering to lift their heads from the pile of dollars their heads are busy munching away.
So I would have thought with all this in full view of the have not`s, is it not more a matter that the chances of war have increased because IT has made social dissent can now travel right across the planet at the speed of light.
It was not there for the Russian Revolution, but somehow the starving masses of peasants got wind of what their Royalty was having for breakfast, let alone supper and decided were it to be spread evenly, even if it meant it would be thinly, it would be enough to avoid death from starvation.
Have you recently been to one of our Council operated recycling centers, have you seen the sort of stuff dumped there. Even our thousands of charity shops are highly selective. What about all that we buy from supermarkets with all the fancy packaging. We the have`s "consume" and the have not`s watch it all on the internet and starve. Some decide enough is enough and hoof it across deserts, seas and mountains to the lands of the have`s. How long can this go on for before the have`s decide not enough to spread, even thinly, and put up more than walls. Banners and flags waived in their marches are no more than a symbol of the unity for the common goal of becoming have`s.
The opposite of this is your have the social media all aligned and spewing a Govt (ultimately business) message all aligned for war against a supposed foe. This supposed foe interferred in our elections, i.e. our candidate didn't win therefore we build a campaign devaluing and demean said people and everybody jumps on board. Not being on board means you are a traitor to our nation and deserve locking up, business taken from you and jailed.

War is generally about Economic theft or resources.

The similarities between 1930's Germany and many countrys today is frightening. Rwanda the Govt used Radio stations, now it would be social media. I will happily be called a traitor for refusing to go with the collective speak, I have no issues with doing this. The signs are always there in advance for what Govt will do.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 07:11
  #975 (permalink)  
 
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An interesting source of articles about the Integrity Initiative and much more available via this tweet.

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Old 7th Mar 2019, 08:08
  #976 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
My Law Enforcement colleagues agree with this; without the battery removed, they can find it.
Wrap first in something not conductive (some phones have an external conductive portion connected to the internal antenna so you need to insulate that) then put in metal can/case whatever that has no holes
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 12:06
  #977 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hyperdark View Post
Wrap first in something not conductive (some phones have an external conductive portion connected to the internal antenna so you need to insulate that) then put in metal can/case whatever that has no holes
Old lead lined container that previously used for photo film works well.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 15:58
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speaking of government trying to control the people, circa 90 years ago, there was an interesting broadcast this morning on PBS/NPR about what the government did during Prohibition in the 1920's. After alcohol was outlawed in 1919, they took the further step of having government chemists add toxic chemicals to "industrial alcohol" so that it would sicken people who tried to drink it. Of course, bootleggers hired chemists to clean the stuff up. (reminds me of the chemical spray about 20-25 years ago the Feds sprayed on dope fields? Forget the name of it)
The lady who wrote the book they were discussing has an estimate of about 10,000 people getting sick and dying from various chemical additives, during prohibition, put there by the government, but as I don't have her book I am not sure how solid her research is. Given what Prohibition was all about, I suspect that she's in the right ball park.
She even went on to say that the government actually made press releases warning people not to drink alcohol from any source, as there were chemicals that would make them sick.
(A related factoid was how many thousand 'speakeasies' there were in New York alone, testimony to how ineffective this attempt at controlling behavior was)

They were pretty blatant about the whole thing: given the Constitutional amendment that backed this, why not? Prohibition was proof positive that a bad enough idea with a lot of support can get passed into legislation.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 17:44
  #979 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post

They were pretty blatant about the whole thing: given the Constitutional amendment that backed this, why not? Prohibition was proof positive that a bad enough idea with a lot of support can get passed into legislation.
And you wonder why some of us don;t trust Govt or big business........................ any of them.
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Old 7th Mar 2019, 19:47
  #980 (permalink)  
 
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I find the 'concerns' about governments wanting to control 'the people' as rather quaint. Ruling groups have always wanted to control their people. The concept of the people controlling those ruling them is very, very modern.

The same with 'proxy wars', those have gone on since early human history.

Which war are we "on the eve of"?
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