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On the eve of war

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On the eve of war

Old 2nd Mar 2019, 13:08
  #941 (permalink)  
 
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By the way...https://journal-neo.org/2019/02/28/r...war-not-assad/

How many times does the MSM have to get it wrong?
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 13:24
  #942 (permalink)  
 
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Both the founder (former mercenary) and head (Islamist) of the White Helmets have plenty of previous form, just reading their biographical details and half the puzzle fits together, surprisingly the head of the White Helmets and the founder, both fairly high profile individuals, have no Wikipedia pages...

A Sad but ever increasingly yardstick, take what the MSM has to say and determine the opposite, the truth is usually far closer to the latter than the former.
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 15:16
  #943 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Stan Woolley View Post
By the way...https://journal-neo.org/2019/02/28/r...war-not-assad/

How many times does the MSM have to get it wrong?
What? And you're suggesting that a Moscow based anti US outfit like New Eastern Outlook should be treated as credible?

And you wonder why people dismiss you as a pro-Russian Troll..............
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 15:35
  #944 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
What? And you're suggesting that a Moscow based anti US outfit like New Eastern Outlook should be treated as credible?

And you wonder why people dismiss you as a pro-Russian Troll..............
And you call me a troll? Are you poised over your keyboard just waiting for my next post?

Pathetic.

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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 17:15
  #945 (permalink)  
 
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Stan: I agree with your posts above, particularly #938. As for the Neo Journal, I thought that was a really well written piece but I do have to disagree with the last paragraph, declaring the BBC as an instrument of propaganda. I do know for fact of one time when that may have been true. During the time of Ian Smith in Rhodesia, the BBC set up a rebroadcast station for the World Service. This, known as the Central African Relay Station, was at Francistown in Botswana and I spent 5 glorious months there providing communications to the outside world on behalf of the Company of infantry posted there to guard the site. Despite being located probably less than 30 miles from the Rhodesian border, the broadcasts from there into Rhodesia were not flavoured with anti Rhodesia or anti Smith articles etc. In fact the way it operated was to receive HF SSB transmissions, presumably from UK and to re-transmit them. The aerial masts were arranged in such a way as to suggest the bulk of the power going out was aimed at Rhodesia but it only transmitted at set times throughout the day, never 24 hours. Ian Smith once had the brass neck to ask if he could send people over from Rhodesia to have a look around the station. The response sounded like 150 SLRs being cocked! This was funded by the Foreign Office but that was not unusual as the World Service has always been funded that way. However, there were rumblings about its possible propaganda use in Parliament and it appears in Hansard a couple times. Still, it has to be remembered that this was at the height of Colonialism (or, more accurately, the beginning of the decline of Colonialism). I think the BBC leaves itself open to criticism such as that expressed in the Journal as a result of its determination to appear free from government control. The BBC controller and his editors set the tone and, if the editorial staff are led by a chief with a certain political view, then that is what will permeate throughout.
At the start of my globe trotting days, I quickly learned the best way to figure out the truth of what was happening in the world was to listen to both the BBC and Radio Moscow. Compare and contrast what each was saying and you could get close to the truth.
Now then, here's a conspiracy theory to contrast with chemtrails; how about if the US supported the dissent and turmoil in Syria with the intent of creating a weak, totally helpless state, then inviting Israel to stroll in up to the Iraqi & Turkish borders. That would leave Jordan and Lebanon in a parlous state and, no doubt compliant. Just wondering out loud, as they say!
Re the Integrity Initiative: I have to admit I hadn't heard of it until today. I have now! Not only that organisation could be called 'suspect' but also the parent company the 'Institute for Statecraft'. And before anyone cries "It's a charity, not a Company", take a look at Companies House.
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 17:34
  #946 (permalink)  
 
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The problem of all state broadcasters has been the rise of the Internet, whilst the BBC was unquestioned a few decades ago, now the narrative can be challenged by all and sundry, and quite rightfully is. Some of the Brexit reporting didn't verge on the disgraceful, it was disgraceful, and really itself should be subject to a public enquiry. Most of what the BBC produces today is rubbish, and that includes its celebratory ethnically diverse cringeworthy "comedies".
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 18:44
  #947 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Re the Integrity Initiative: I have to admit I hadn't heard of it until today. I have now! Not only that organisation could be called 'suspect' but also the parent company the 'Institute for Statecraft'. And before anyone cries "It's a charity, not a Company", take a look at Companies House.
Oh II had a ton of documents leaked in December by anonymous, showed it up as a propoganda outfit funded by Foreign Office, Atlantic Council and rich guys. Lots of ex UK military involved along with journalists across Europe.

Disturbing issue is that it has openly briefed against Corbyn which means Foreign Office is providing Govt Funds to an outfit which is openly briefing against HM Leader of the opposition.
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 21:15
  #948 (permalink)  
 
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Kelvin: I enjoyed your memories of that part of Africa, having spent two years of my youth in Zambia and later on my first proper job was as a young bush pilot based in Windhoek. My occasional trips into the caprivi strip and one to the Tsodilo Hills in Botswana are still fresh in my memory thirty odd years later.

My awareness of the BBC being anything but ‘the good guys’ started while watching the Scottish referendum, being a Scot I started noticing how biased they were, bending things a certain way or leaving things out, basically I was recognising propaganda for the first time. Since then it’s become much more obvious as I’ve become interested in such things.

I think your conspiracy theory about Syria and Israel is bang on. Only today I saw an article a few years ago by some senior Israeli officer saying that they would far prefer Isis winning the war in Syria to Assad. I also think it’s quite obvious who the brains were behind the coup that General Wesley Clark was on about soon after 9/11.

Interesting times for sure.
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 23:51
  #949 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
............I think the BBC leaves itself open to criticism such as that expressed in the Journal as a result of its determination to appear free from government control. The BBC controller and his editors set the tone and, if the editorial staff are led by a chief with a certain political view, then that is what will permeate throughout.....
An interesting analogy to what has just transpired in Oz with the Australian Broadcasting Commission (ABC) which has just been through a very controversial change of management.

However by contrast, and a massive bugbear to a succession of conservative governments, is that no matter how compliant their appointed managers to their preferred political leaning, it simply does NOT permeate through to the broadcast content. Or not to the extent that they would seek to impose.
From funding cut-backs at every budget through to (reported) instructions from our Prime Minister no-less, to "get rid of" reporters who are critical of government policy and initiatives, it seems that the ABC is still seen as being insufficiently compliant.

The current conservative government, which is facing an ignominious departure at the upcoming elections, has just pulled a groin strain ensuring that they get their appointee into the vacant chair's postion at the ABC.
To be fair, the lady appointed seems to be a reasonably neutral, even though she was a "captain's pick" and did not even appear on the shortlist drawn up by the committee appointed to identify candidates.
Why they even go through the pre-selection process is beyond me. All recent board appointments have been purely political appointments that ignored the recommendations of the appointment panels.
She is not responsible for that.

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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 11:48
  #950 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
...

And you wonder why people dismiss you as a pro-Russian Troll..............
I can assure you that Stan is no “pro-Russian troll”!!

Stan, you encountered sheer and utter propaganda many years earlier from another Broadcasting Corporation!

I’ve forgotten which war we are on the ‘eve’ of, was it the Peloponnesian?
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 12:13
  #951 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post


I can assure you that Stan is no “pro-Russian troll”!!

Stan, you encountered sheer and utter propaganda many years earlier from another Broadcasting Corporation!

I’ve forgotten which war we are on the ‘eve’ of, was it the Peloponnesian?
I paid little or no attention to anything at all that wasn’t aeroplane related in those days Noel, so I think not.

It is interesting though, if the SABC did have an effect on my thinking, it appears to have worked in reverse!
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 12:42
  #952 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
I can assure you that Stan is no “pro-Russian troll”!!
What I actually suggested was that Stan shouldn't be surprised when people pigeonhole him as a pro-Russian troll given the links he posts in support of his arguments.

To bluntly dismiss the accuracy of the so called Mainstream News Media using an article from a Moscow based news organisation with a heavy anti-american bias to support that stance is somewhat odd. But maybe there was a calculated irony in doing so that I missed.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 13:31
  #953 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
What I actually suggested was that Stan shouldn't be surprised when people pigeonhole him as a pro-Russian troll given the links he posts in support of his arguments.

To bluntly dismiss the accuracy of the so called Mainstream News Media using an article from a Moscow based news organisation with a heavy anti-american bias to support that stance is somewhat odd. But maybe there was a calculated irony in doing so that I missed.
But is the article wrong? I am in no doubt that the BBC and other mainstream media is sometimes heavily propagandised, you seem to be upset by me having this opinion.

Noel has known me from decades ago in another time and place. I am sure that we would have very different opinions about plenty things, but I am equally sure that we would not be offended by our differing opinions. After all, they’re just opinions. The time to get worried is when people act on opinions and only when these actions adversely affect others.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 13:54
  #954 (permalink)  
 
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What I actually suggested was that Stan shouldn't be surprised when people pigeonhole him as a pro-Russian troll given the links he posts in support of his arguments.
Andy, if the counter arguments are hard to find in our Western media, what is the alternative to using alternative sources?
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 14:48
  #955 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Stan Woolley View Post
But is the article wrong? I am in no doubt that the BBC and other mainstream media is sometimes heavily propagandised, you seem to be upset by me having this opinion.
The thing about the BBC is that it's editorially independent of any government. And I speak as someone who is a frequent critic of the organisation. And while much of the mainstream media is partisan in it's views, they're no more so than NEO for example.


Originally Posted by Stan Woolley View Post
Noel has known me from decades ago in another time and place. I am sure that we would have very different opinions about plenty things, but I am equally sure that we would not be offended by our differing opinions. After all, they’re just opinions. The time to get worried is when people act on opinions and only when these actions adversely affect others.
Evidently, which is why I felt the need to clarify my position. Let's be clear about one thing Stan. The world would be a poorer place without disagreement. One of the things that makes me sad about the current Brexit debate in this parish is the dismissive if not insulting nature of the arguments and counter arguments (I think Kelvin would recognise this as well). So no, I'm not offended by your opinions (although I disagree quite vehemently with many of them). Lets's just say I'm........bewildered......by the material you choose in support of those opinions and by the way you present it as more reliable and credible than the MSN when there's little evidence that's the case.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 15:43
  #956 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
The thing about the BBC is that it's editorially independent of any government. And I speak as someone who is a frequent critic of the organisation. And while much of the mainstream media is partisan in it's views, they're no more so than NEO for example.
I think that this view is naive. Bias will win out every time.
In this video from some time ago, Marr interviewing Chomsky, I think Chomsky hits the nail squarely on the head when he says “I’m sure you believe everything you’re saying, but what I’m saying is if you believed something different, you wouldn’t be sitting where you’re sitting.” Around 11 mins in.


Evidently, which is why I felt the need to clarify my position. Let's be clear about one thing Stan. The world would be a poorer place without disagreement. One of the things that makes me sad about the current Brexit debate in this parish is the dismissive if not insulting nature of the arguments and counter arguments (I think Kelvin would recognise this as well). So no, I'm not offended by your opinions (although I disagree quite vehemently with many of them). Lets's just say I'm........bewildered......by the material you choose in support of those opinions and by the way you present it as more reliable and credible than the MSN when there's little evidence that's the case.


Speaking of bias, I think that’s your own bias talking.
My earlier post uses the BBCs own articles to show how that were wrong and now they’re backtracking. If Assad was as bad as they said previously, would they be streaming back? The recent OPCW finding hasn’t been headline news either. I wonder why not?

A similar thing has been happening and I think will continue to happen with the US MSM. Jimmy Dore explains:





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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 16:11
  #957 (permalink)  
 
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Based on the OP, the "eve of war" has lasted from April 2018 to March 2019.
Still no war.
Long night, though, and they doubtless ran out of beer.
The Pakistanis and Indians gave it a go a few days back, but can't seem to manage enough will to go through with it. (Just as well, as they've both go nukes, so let's raise a glass to their continued lack of a desire to fulfill the dream of the OP).
So tell me again, when is this war starting? And Where? And between whom?
You all are starting to sound like those "the end of the world comes in 2012 due to Mayan prophecy" cranks.
Go have a pint and a lie down.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 16:20
  #958 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Andy, if the counter arguments are hard to find in our Western media, what is the alternative to using alternative sources?
Western Govts are now doing what they can to use Fakebook/Twitter and other social media to "FILTER" news so you get to see the news they like and agree with but anything that is critical gets sidelined, banned, abused as fake news.

A pretence is that this is to prevent "interference" but strange when other countrys act like this then it is called "Banning free speech".
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 16:44
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Western Govts are now doing what they can to use Fakebook/Twitter and other social media to "FILTER" news so you get to see the news they like and agree with but anything that is critical gets sidelined, banned, abused as fake news.

A pretence is that this is to prevent "interference" but strange when other countrys act like this then it is called "Banning free speech".
They don't seem to be able to control Twitter and Facebook, racedo. Those two media outlets are still a "wild west" country - much to the chagrin of at least one Western government(with its capital in Washington). In places like Zimbabwe, the government is able (apparently) to shut Twitter, and its attendant political sounds and fury with the current mess, down completely.
An interesting story from Zimbabwe from Diana Stone, and her reaction to the unrest there, included this:
There is, too, a petrol crisis. Petrol itself is very cheap – the equivalent of £0.97 a litre: the difficulty is that there isn’t any. The government argues that this is because people are hoarding and smuggling fuel, about which Zimbabwean Twitter, which traffics largely in good jokes and good music, is incredulous and ironic. It’s widely known that a small number of people with good connections are making a vast profit from importing petrol. Getting a licence to import means you can buy US dollars from the reserve bank at the official 1-1 rate. The trick is very simple: you buy enough US dollars to import, for instance, two tankers of petrol; and then you either buy only one, and make a solid threefold profit on your leftover US dollars, or you buy two tankers and sell the other for a profit across the border in Mozambique. So petrol, and where to find it, becomes a central subject of conversation, in the same way Brexit is in the UK: all conversational roads lead to the service station.
-snip musing about local fauna and flora-
An acquaintance is given a petrol tip-off, via someone’s friend’s cousin: she arrives in a queue, which already spans six blocks, at 2 a.m., and receives her petrol at 10 a.m. She is jubilant.
Because there’s no petrol, you have to be more than usually careful not to burn your house down, because it’s very unlikely that fire engines will be available.
-snip family anecdote-
Most people in Harare travel to work by commuter omnibuses, known as kombis. These are white vans, many of them Toyota Hiaces patched together with duct tape and hope, designed to hold around 16 people but into which 20 can squeeze: the drivers tend to go like Lewis Hamilton, if Lewis Hamilton was in a hurry to avenge his father’s death. The rear windows almost invariably have slogans splashed across them; these slogans fall into four broad camps: reverently theistic, football, advertising and sassy. ‘The Devil is a Liar’ stops at a traffic light behind ‘Oh Mama.’ On 12 January, we wake to find that the government has tripled the cost of petrol. Kombis are forced to raise the price of a journey to $10 bond, which means that for many commuters, including many nurses and teachers, going to work means a net loss. This is the final spark.
Riots break out across the country. Protesters, liaising via WhatsApp and Twitter, set fire to tyres and cars, and pile rocks in the middle of the roads. A three-day stayaway is planned, starting on Monday the 14th: schools, shops, offices close, and kombis stop driving. -snip family event-
And then she fins her computer won't do what it usually does.
In retaliation to the planned stayaway, the government shuts down the internet across the country. It takes me some time to realise: I blame my computer, and spend half an hour optimistically plugging and unplugging cables into the router, because I foolishly didn’t imagine that Mnangagwa would take such an open and unambiguous leaf from the dictator playbook. But then Econet, the country’s primary internet provider, sends out an erratically punctuated text to all its customers:
Further to a warrant issued by the Minister of State in the President¿s Office for National Security through the Director General of the President¿s Dept, acting in terms of the Interception of Communications Act, Internet Services are currently suspended across all networks and Internet Services Providers.We are obliged to act when directed to do so and the matter is beyond our control. All inconveniences are sincerely regretted.
On the Tuesday the deputy minister for information, Energy Mutodi, appears on Zimbabwe Today saying that the shutdown was not due to government interference; rather, he says, ‘the internet is congested.’ He suggests users double-check their data bundles to make sure they have enough credit. I imagine the Twitter reaction would be raucous and funny and bitter and caustic, but I don’t know for sure, because, even when the internet returns, Twitter remains on lockdown.
It may be that a lot of governments want that kind of control of Twitter, but they aren't there yet.
I get feeds every day that include the excoriation of public officials, as well as those same public officials lobbing their own verbal grenades back. Not Sure how long the clown show will go on, but a lot of it is it is ... a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 18:19
  #960 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
They don't seem to be able to control Twitter and Facebook, racedo. Those two media outlets are still a "wild west" country - much to the chagrin of at least one Western government(with its capital in Washington). In places like Zimbabwe, the government is able (apparently) to shut Twitter, and its attendant political sounds and fury with the current mess, down completely.
.

These were easy one to find but there are loads more They claimed it was just a bug that impacted GOP supporters.
https://www.engadget.com/2018/07/26/...-ban-is-a-bug/

Facebook shut down a news service after Atlantic council (funders of UK Integrity Initiative) got CNN to do a piece on it. Maffick is run by a US Citizen. Integrity Iniative was not asked on its Fakebook account to provide details of its funding, nor is anybody else. II shrills and has organised UK briefings for White Helmets, those loveable ISIS supporters.
https://www.rt.com/news/451773-faceb...ia-censorship/
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