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What happened to PPrune?

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What happened to PPrune?

Old 22nd Mar 2018, 16:44
  #1 (permalink)  
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What happened to PPrune?

I’ve been with Prune using one name or another more or less from when it started.

Day was ‘Professional Pilots Rumour Network’ was just that . . . an incident/accident amongst other stuff happened and people discussed it, offered theories, anecdotal information and the like.

 Seems now, as soon as the said incident occurs the thought police are out in droves telling us we can’t discuss it.

They cite a myriad of reasons ranging from Next of Kin might read it, it's in poor taste, through to the media may misquote posts made.

Since when did the media worry about accuracy anyway - don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story?



Next of kin? Are they really going to join Prune just so they can see what is being said? I suggest they’re too busy grieving and I sympathise.

But shutting down a discussion that is often enlightening - certainly was to me when I was flying
?

Andy Hill is a good example, to some of us, we ‘theorised’ accurately as it turned out that it was pilot error - but oh dear me, if you said as much the sky fell in on your head. ‘He only made one error’ is trotted out - yep, perhaps, I don’t know because I wasn’t there - undoubtedly this particular error killed 11 people and traumatised an unknown number. So it can’t be discussed?

The police state has arrived? No, not yet.



Moderators are chosen to moderate (funnily enough) and if THEY think a post is inappropriate then THEY act accordingly - it’s in the rules.



Time out of number the ‘correct’ answer appears somewhere in most threads, but often the poster is subjected to a mass of quite abusive ‘flak’.

So if you singly or collectively object, why not contact a moderator and express your dissatisfaction or don’t read that thread?

Simples
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 16:48
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It's accepted, even in the worst of media, that when someone is formally charged to appear in court on a criminal matter, in the interests of justice, the matter becomes sub judice on any platform that might be read by jurors or witnesses. I think this forum fits into that criteria. I'm also pretty sure that your para 7 will cause this thread to be dealt with accordingly.

Last edited by clareprop; 22nd Mar 2018 at 17:08.
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 17:02
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Originally Posted by clareprop View Post
It's accepted, even in the worst of media, that when someone is formally charged to appear in court on a criminal matter, in the interests of justice, the matter becomes sub judice on any platform that might be read by jurors or witnesses. I think this forum fits into that criteria.
Well said clareprop
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 17:02
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Originally Posted by Brian W May View Post
I’ve been with Prune using one name or another more or less from when it started.

Day was ‘Professional Pilots Rumour Network’ was just that . . . an incident/accident amongst other stuff happened and people discussed it, offered theories, anecdotal information and the like.

 Seems now, as soon as the said incident occurs the thought police are out in droves telling us we can’t discuss it.

They cite a myriad of reasons ranging from Next of Kin might read it, it's in poor taste, through to the media may misquote posts made.

Since when did the media worry about accuracy anyway - don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story?



Next of kin? Are they really going to join Prune just so they can see what is being said? I suggest they’re too busy grieving and I sympathise.

But shutting down a discussion that is often enlightening - certainly was to me when I was flying
?

Andy Hill is a good example, to some of us, we ‘theorised’ accurately as it turned out that it was pilot error - but oh dear me, if you said as much the sky fell in on your head. ‘He only made one error’ is trotted out - yep, perhaps, I don’t know because I wasn’t there - undoubtedly this particular error killed 11 people and traumatised an unknown number. So it can’t be discussed?

The police state has arrived? No, not yet.



Moderators are chosen to moderate (funnily enough) and if THEY think a post is inappropriate then THEY act accordingly - it’s in the rules.



Time out of number the ‘correct’ answer appears somewhere in most threads, but often the poster is subjected to a mass of quite abusive ‘flak’.

So if you singly or collectively object, why not contact a moderator and express your dissatisfaction or don’t read that thread?

Simples
"I’ve been with Prune using one name or another..."

What I find sickening is when people like you hide behind aliases to make the most vitriolic and half-baked attacks on named people.

Someone once said: "Let him without sin cast the first stone."

Chris Scott (my real name)
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 17:04
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What I find sickening is when people like you hide behind aliases to make the most vitriolic and half-baked attacks on named people.
With respect Brian like many of us may need/have needed to be anonymous lest our companies haul us over the coals. And I guess when this is no longer needed some may revert to their name, in my opinion a rather good thing, certainly doesn't seem he has anything to hide considering he gives his old alias in his profile

flash8 (not my real name one hopes).
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 17:19
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Originally Posted by flash8 View Post
With respect Brian like many of us may need/have needed to be anonymous lest our companies haul us over the coals. And I guess when this is no longer needed some may revert to their name, in my opinion a rather good thing, certainly doesn't seem he has anything to hide considering he gives his old alias in his profile

flash8 (not my real name one hopes).
Rumour has it that was the name you were known by in 'Night Flight'

(I am aware that only those who have been to Moscow will understand that, but what happens in Moscow stays in Moscow - usually!)
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 17:24
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My profile - which is public domain says:

Ex Dengue_Dude, retired military & civil FE. No longer require anonymity.

Excuse me, but what part of that is hiding? Indeed I was working for various airlines that most certainly WOULD have objected.

What's that old adage? DON'T ASSUME, CHECK?
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 17:26
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A more valid objection would be that the topic has been debated exhaustively in these columns and there really is nothing new to say that can be deduced from the charges that have been brought.
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 18:02
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As has been pointed out the Andy Hill case is now a criminal investigation, as I assume that is what is being refered to.
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 18:22
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Despite jurors under strict instruction not to do their own research of the case on the internet, I know for a fact that they do. Whatever your opinion, it is in the interests of justice for all parties that sub-judice rules are followed. The publishers of this site also have a legal liability.

For the topic now subject to criminal prosecution, there really is no grounds to question the decision to decline further discussion.
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 18:26
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Let's please pause discussion of this topic. I , or another mod will come back to this in the next day or so.

Thanks, Pilot DAR
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 22:13
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Regarding Andy Hill - these are the words of the Crown Prosecution Service lawyer who authorised the charges:

“I would like to remind all concerned that criminal proceedings have now commenced and the defendant has a right to a fair trial. It is extremely important that there should be no reporting, commentary or sharing of information online which could in any way prejudice these proceedings.”
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 22:34
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“Which could in any way prejudice the proceedings”

Not quite what the law says, but hey.
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 22:48
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The problem for the CPS as with any famous case in today's multi-media world is that just about everyone in the UK will have heard about the "incident" so getting a totally untainted jury is going to be next to near impossible.

I was once a witness in a non aviation case and I was somewhat unsure as to whether or not I was allowed to or indeed should be reading online the previous few days of evidence as it was reported by the press (so again tainted by whatever line the press wanted to run with) prior to my evidence. Interestingly it was held in a neighbouring county to I presume try and result in jurors who did not know about the case. The fact that The Telegraph and the DM and the rest had run with it nationally when the event occurred prior seems to be ignored.

Of course jurors do their own research as they are fed up with being fed cock and bull stories of twaddle by both the prosecution and the defence teams.
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 22:57
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Perhaps I wasn't clear. My thread wasn't meant to be ABOUT a person, it was about the behaviour of posters who act like thought police.

Perhaps a poor example and for that I apologise. The moderators have the job of policing the site - not people who want to foist their own opinion on all other posters - who have just as many rights.

On a personal basis, I'm really puzzled by Chris Scott's [the edit, sorry] comment. I used one name when I couldn't afford to be directly identified, and my own name. Hardly 'hiding' behind aliases.

When you fly for a company that Photoshops an engine intrascope inspection before a two-engined ferry, it's very difficult operating on Prune under your own name.

So, this is not about Andy Hill - it's so much more.

Last edited by Brian W May; 22nd Mar 2018 at 23:32. Reason: Wrong surname.
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 23:26
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Ultimately Brian the forum has become a victim of its own success and with such popularity, particularly amongst journalists looking for a soundbite, there are challenges placed on the owners and operators of the board.
The forum has been subject to restrictions and legal battles numerous times in recent years and there are several banned topics because it is just too expensive and too difficult to fight those battles.
There are other smaller forums around where you probably find more open discussions.

The internet also isn't the same place it was 10 or 15 years ago, there is more and more legal precedence that makes forum owners and web hosts much more cautious.
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 23:37
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The major problem on PPRuNe when an accident or incident occurs is that two thirds of posters, who immediately jump on their key boards, are not professional pilots and actually know stuff all about professional flying, additionally they have no relevant experience on which to base their wild conjecture. Discovering that one has been engaged in a technical argument about aspects of the B744 with a Flight Sim specialist is quite irritating, to say the least.
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 23:45
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Originally Posted by parabellum View Post
The major problem on PPRuNe when an accident or incident occurs is that two thirds of posters, who immediately jump on their key boards, are not professional pilots and actually know stuff all about professional flying, additionally they have no relevant experience on which to base their wild conjecture. Discovering that one has been engaged in a technical argument about aspects of the B744 with a Flight Sim specialist is quite irritating, to say the least.

Agreed, but that's why it's a RUMOUR network - the clue's in the title. We meet the ignorant and ill-informed everywhere, why do we expect Prune to be any different?

It used to be a whole lot more fun than it is now - so often (like on another thread currently running) it degenerates into a slanging match which doesn't really achieve a lot.

I must admit to having a degree of sardonic amusement seeing just how long it takes . . .

That said, the good outweighs the bad - it just gets a bit close sometimes.

All of the above is 'in my humble opinion'

Last edited by Brian W May; 22nd Mar 2018 at 23:46. Reason: Grammar (as in schools)
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 23:49
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Hiding behind your own name

Cunning one that
Who would have guessed
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 23:58
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Originally Posted by D SQDRN 97th IOTC View Post
Cunning one that
Who would have guessed
Like one of Baldric's cunning plans apparently
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