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Sergei Skripal

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Sergei Skripal

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Old 11th Oct 2018, 11:11
  #2941 (permalink)  
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And donít forget trace amounts of the same agent being detected in their hotel room....
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 11:29
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
And donít forget trace amounts of the same agent being detected in their hotel room....
I'd forgotten that, and it does tie them pretty definitively to the attack. It would be stretching credulity beyond any reasonable limit to think that they weren't associated with, or deeply involved with, this attack.
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 12:03
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Is it not also very interesting that the Trolls (who insist that they are not Trolls) have run out of steam?
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 12:41
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
The vast majority of wild theories turn out to be fantasy. Everything from the Earth being flat, through contrail conspiracies to the many debunked flying saucer and alien abduction conspiracies have been shown to be bunkum, time and time again, yet thousands of people would rather believe an extremely improbable theory than any facts that are presented.
We really know little, but we assume much. Yes, there are plenty of theories that I think are nonsense, but vast majority? That depends what you’re talking about. I notice that you didn’t include any of the more earthbound theories VP. Here’s a few of the ones that would probably have been called CTs in their day, had the CIA coined the term earlier than they did.

MK ultra
Operation Mockingbird
The Manhattan Project
Asbestos
The Tuskegee Syphilis Study
Operation Northwoods
1990 Testimony of Nayirah
Iran contra
CIA drug running
The Gulf of Tonkin

oh and the ufo thing, mmm. So much evidence. I’m not saying definitely yes, but you’re saying definitely no.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/u...arry-reid.html

“The Term “Conspiracy Theory” Was Invented by the CIA In Order To Prevent Disbelief of Official Government Stories”

https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/201...nment-stories/

Last edited by Stan Woolley; 11th Oct 2018 at 12:52.
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 13:01
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Mr Skripal was advising Czech security services on how to uncover Russian spies
I can't stop laughing at that:
"Here's how we spot Russian spies...."
"Look out behind you Mr Skripal...."
Didn't see that one coming, did he?
Anyway, references to CCTV proving this, that or the other, where is the CCTV from Skripal's house? It must exist. At the time of the incident, the press had a photo of a brace of female PCSO outside the house, guarding the police tape. A CCTV camera was in plain sight, mounted (if memory serves) near the top of a drain pipe. Given the presence of a CCTV camera after the fact, it is a pretty certain thing it would have been present before the fact.
Re the traces of poison found at the London hotel, I recently listened to an item on the radio in which the hotel proprietor was a bit miffed as the authorities had told him nothing about Novichok being found in one of his rooms until months after the searches.
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 13:13
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Yes, the Trolls ("We keep telling you we arent trolls!") have gone quiet lately, flash8 and racedo were both very vocal posters, but both stopped posting within 6 hours of each other about 10 days ago. Both very active posters, with over 200 posts each on this thread, and between them responsible for approximately 15% of all posts on this thread.
Stan Woolley, do you have an alternative explanation or suggestion that isn't contradicted by the known facts that are beyond doubt in the case? VP959 has given a pretty thorough rundown of the publicly known and verifiable facts. Or alternatively Stan, what would you consider sufficient evidence to demonstrate the involvement of Russian state actors, without necessarily going as far as direct orders from Putin or similar?

Last edited by De_flieger; 11th Oct 2018 at 14:22.
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 13:15
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The point I was primarily making was that, in this specific case, we do know a fair bit.

We know the true identities of the two men who visited Salisbury at the exact time that the attack on Sergei Skripal took place (confirmed by neighbours of one of them).
We know that they both work for the Russian military, most probably the GRU.
We know that Sergei Skripal also worked for the GRU.
We know that they were within a few hundred metres of Sergei Skripal's house around the time the attack took place.
We know that there were traces of the same obscure chemical agent used in the Salisbury attack in their hotel room in London.
We know they lied on Russian TV, saying they were just businessmen in the sports industry, on a sight seeing trip.

I've not read, or heard of, any credible alternative explanation for the behaviour of these two GRU officers on the dates they were here that fits the things we already know.
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 13:46
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Anyway, references to CCTV proving this, that or the other, where is the CCTV from Skripal's house? It must exist. At the time of the incident, the press had a photo of a brace of female PCSO outside the house, guarding the police tape. A CCTV camera was in plain sight, mounted (if memory serves) near the top of a drain pipe. Given the presence of a CCTV camera after the fact, it is a pretty certain thing it would have been present before the fact.

Where are the CCTV cameras on his house? All I can see is what looks to be a phone cable or similar, but no camera.





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Old 11th Oct 2018, 14:12
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This whole affair feels a bit like the U-2 shootdown the other way around. Waiting for public apologies while you have proof at hand and then some slow barbecue.
I hope this ends operations like this especially the chemical weapons part is plain disgusting.
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 14:29
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Anyway, references to CCTV proving this, that or the other, where is the CCTV from Skripal's house? It must exist. At the time of the incident, the press had a photo of a brace of female PCSO outside the house, guarding the police tape. A CCTV camera was in plain sight, mounted (if memory serves) near the top of a drain pipe. Given the presence of a CCTV camera after the fact, it is a pretty certain thing it would have been present before the fact.
This photo?

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Old 11th Oct 2018, 14:31
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No CCTV camera in that one, either. I've looked at as many online images of his house as I can find and none seem to show this mythical CCTV camera.
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 15:01
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The fifteen (sic) points in the article mentioned above (with my comments in italics).

1. We haven't seen any photographs or heard anything from Sergei Skripal since 4th March.

Leaving aside the probability he's been spirited away to some safe place somewhere else in the world, why on earth should we expect to have heard from him?

2. The last confirmed images we have of Skripal is CCTV footage of him in a shop in Salisbury at 12.47pm on 27th February.

So?

3 .We haven't seen Yulia Skripal, Sergei's daughter since a short video statement featuring her was released on 23rd May.

See 1 & 2 above.

4. Investigative website Bellingcat contends that the two suspects identified by the police, and traveling under the names Ruslan Boshirov and Alexander Petrov, are in fact Anatoliy Chepiga, a highly decorated colonel from Russian military intelligence, and Alexander Mishkin, a doctor working for Russian military intelligence.

Indeed it does.

5. We haven't seen any CCTV footage of the Skripal's house on 4th March, or of the Skripals on the bench where they were found at around 4.15pm.

Even if it exists, why should we expect to have seen it?


6. We have seen CCTV footage, timed at 11.58am, of the two suspects walking along Wilton Road in an opposite direction to Salisbury Cathedral (which they claim to have come to Salisbury to visit), and in the direction of the Skripals house.

Indeed.


7. The football World Cup was held in Russia this summer for the first time. There was an anti-Russian neocon campaign in the west to undermine the event, calling for boycotts and fans not to travel there.

And the best way to do that was to fake a poisoning of a defector?

8. On Tuesday 6th March, two days after the Skripals were taken ill, arch-Putin critics Bill Browder and Ed Lucas were due to address British Parliamentarians on 'fake news'.
They were expected to make the case for tougher measures to be taken against Russia and Russian media.

So?

9. Anatoliy Chepiga has not, as yet, come forward to identify himself as being a different person from Ruslan Boshirov.

Unlikely, if he's an intelligence operative, don't you think?

10. Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey, who was one of the first on the scene at the bench and who subsequently became ill, has not been interviewed by any news media, since being released from the hospital on 22nd March.

So?

11. The weather in and around Salisbury on the weekend of 2-4th March was inclement. It included heavy snow, strong winds, and freezing rain. There were significant transport disruptions in southern England.

So?

12. The UK authorities believe that nerve agent novichok was sprayed by the two suspects on the Skripals front door knob at around noon on 4th March.

Indeed - as do many other agencies.


13. The two suspects were captured on CCTV exiting Salisbury railway station at 11.48am and then entering the station at 1.50pm, just over two hours later.

Which doesn't really help their case, does it?


14. We have seen no evidence that the Skripals returned home having been seen on CCTV at around 9.15am out in their car in Salisbury.

What evidence would you like? A signed affidavit from their neighbour?

15. The suspects have not been charged in connection with the death of Dawn Sturgess, who were are, told died from novichok poisoning having used perfume from a bottle discarded by the two men in a skip and given to her by her partner.

Not charged "yet"

16. In a letter to The Times on 14th March, Dr. Stephen Davies, Consultant in Emergency Medicine at the Salisbury NHS Foundation Trust wrote: 'May I clarify that no patients have experienced symptoms of nerve agent poisoning in Salisbury and there have only ever been three patients with significant poisoningÖNo member of the public has been contaminated by the agent involved'.

It was early days in the investigation and, at that time, no other member of the public had been affected.


15. Eyewitness Freya Church, who saw the Skripals in on the bench, told the BBC: 'He was doing some strange hand movements, looking up to the skyÖ.They looked like they had been taking something quite strong'.

Indeed
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 15:19
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Dave & VP: Indeed the photo provided by Dave is the one I had in mind. And I no longer spot a camera! I therefore must smell a rodent and shall while away some time looking into that.
Incidentally, the CCTV camera was not mythical in 2009.
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 15:52
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Dave & VP: Indeed the photo provided by Dave is the one I had in mind. And I no longer spot a camera! I therefore must smell a rodent and shall while away some time looking into that.
Incidentally, the CCTV camera was not mythical in 2009.
This is the old Google Streetview photo:



The two differences I can spot (apart from the additional growth in the front garden) are that the extractor fan upstairs seems to have been removed and the hole bricked in (look carefully at the last image I posted earlier and you can see the added bricks) and a front porch, with an outward opening door, has been added.

No sign of a CCTV camera that I can see.
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 17:34
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Dave & VP: Indeed the photo provided by Dave is the one I had in mind. And I no longer spot a camera! I therefore must smell a rodent and shall while away some time looking into that.
Incidentally, the CCTV camera was not mythical in 2009.
What CCTV? Not even his best friend, Ross Cassidy, makes any mention of CCTV. Mr Cassidy even questions the police timeline and surely he would have made reference to CCTV?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-spy-team.html

See footage of house. There is a vent/overflow underneath the toilet window.



In reference to your CCTV on drain pipe there used to be an extractor fan or boiler vent on the wall next to the drain pipe. That fan/vent was visible going back to 2009. Looks like some people have looked at the old Google Street View and mistook the fan/vent for a camera.

Link to 2009 Street View

https://goo.gl/maps/rndY1aTnC8r
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 17:41
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Dave & VP: Indeed the photo provided by Dave is the one I had in mind. And I no longer spot a camera! I therefore must smell a rodent and shall while away some time looking into that.
Incidentally, the CCTV camera was not mythical in 2009.
You can see the overflow pipe below the bathroom window. You can also see where the new bricks have been added when the vent/fan was removed. The image is reported to have been from two years ago.

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Old 12th Oct 2018, 10:52
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But surely that serves to prove that they were not trolls at all. Merely like myself sceptical about any claim that comes from any government whose security services have a record of deception in these matters. Seems to me a wise position to question things until they become clear. I suppose now we just wait until the UK government suppliers Turkey in their spat with the Saudis. Sauce for the goose and all that.
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Old 12th Oct 2018, 10:58
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Of course you may be right. But in the light of the information that has progressively emerged, you would think that a sceptical but objective person might admit that his/her suspicions were incorrect?
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Old 15th Oct 2018, 18:43
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Mishkin from the early 2000s when he worked as a waiter in a St. Petersburg bistro during his medical studies.



while studying at the Kirov Military Medical Academy in St. Petersburg, worked as a waiter at the Garson bistro. The art consultant Nikolay Evdokimov, who worked with Mishkin in 2000 and recognized him in an interview with Margarita Simonyan, told Rain about this.
From Russian media article. Google translation.

https://tvrain.ru/news/agent_gru_mis...ollegi-473326/
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