Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

Sergei Skripal

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

Sergei Skripal

Old 6th Sep 2018, 09:12
  #2441 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 67
Posts: 369
This is descending into farce.

As mentioned a few times before, it's extremely unlikely that the investigators are going to release evidential material in its entirety to the public domain, and probable that they would edit and reduce the definition of the images before they released them to the media, particularly if they contained some key evidence that they did not want to reveal before any trial. If the images weren't edited in some way around the periphery I'd be surprised, and things like the time stamp on any original images may well be one of the items that they would not wish to make public, if it is key to their whole package of evidence.

I find it hilarious that so much effort is going in to try and disprove, or cast doubt, on this being an attack carried out by one or more Russians. We been here before, and looked at who might have a reason to try and kill Sergei and Yulia Skripal, and the clear and obvious prime suspects pretty much have to be the only people with a strong motive - former colleagues of his that consider him to be a traitor to their country.

That doesn't mean it has to have been a state-sponsored attack at all, in fact there a reasonably strong case to be made that the Russian state would be crazy to pull off a stunt like this. That does not mean that it wasn't a rogue operation, undertaken for deeply personal reasons, though.

Whatever the case, it won't change the outcome, and my guess is that the press release yesterday was really the UK investigation team's end game. They know there isn't a chance in hell of bringing Russian suspects back to the UK for interview, possible charge and maybe a trial, so they release what they've got, edited to remove what they see as key detail, as a PR exercise, in order to show they've got something to account for the 11,000 hours of CCTV they've looked through and the 14,000 witness statements they've taken (those figures were given on a news report yesterday, no idea if they are accurate).
VP959 is online now  
Old 6th Sep 2018, 09:14
  #2442 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Currently within the EU
Posts: 322
There doesn't seem any point in correcting the rubbish that the RT trolls post. Whatever evidence is produced, they will always come up with specious arguments against it.

If they are so sure of these men's innocence, they should ask their masters to allow them to be stood in court. Then the full evidence, which will not be revealed until then, can be properly tested. It's not going to happen of course.

Our one satisfaction is that whatever this crew say here will have no effect whatever on public opinion.
Sallyann1234 is online now  
Old 6th Sep 2018, 11:06
  #2443 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 51.50N 1W (ish)
Posts: 1,012
The Bart Simpson defence:

1. I didn't do it
2. Nobody saw me do it
3. You can't prove anything
4. It never happened.

Sound familiar?
Fitter2 is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2018, 11:49
  #2444 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Age: 50
Posts: 1,430
Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
That doesn't mean it has to have been a state-sponsored attack at all, in fact there a reasonably strong case to be made that the Russian state would be crazy to pull off a stunt like this. That does not mean that it wasn't a rogue operation, undertaken for deeply personal reasons, though.
Well I'd say that anyone following the official story has now to decide on the following:
Either
1. Russian secret services have become unbelievably inept at their job Ė they made about every possible basic mistake they could and eventually missed their target. Not to mention endangering many innocents.
or
2. Borishov and Petrov are not GRU/SRV

I don't see any middle ground here
atakacs is online now  
Old 6th Sep 2018, 12:04
  #2445 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 835
The matter is very easily resolved.

Russia could clear all this up in short order.

They have chosen, at this point, not to do so.

That is the elephant in the room, not the "orientation of the air vents at Gatwick".
currawong is online now  
Old 6th Sep 2018, 12:06
  #2446 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 173
I would have thought it extremely risky to contaminate the door handle late Sunday morning while the Skripals were in the house.
OK at night or when they were out but if they were in there was a good possibility they could have disturbed the GRU operatives.
Have I missed something?
Mike6567 is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2018, 12:21
  #2447 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Essex
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by Mike6567 View Post
I would have thought it extremely risky to contaminate the door handle late Sunday morning while the Skripals were in the house.
OK at night or when they were out but if they were in there was a good possibility they could have disturbed the GRU operatives.
Have I missed something?
Door handle just seems so odd to me - not mentioned yet is the fact that the cctv shows the men just yards from where all the action happened - Zizzi, the pub and the car park.
Bee Rexit is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2018, 12:22
  #2448 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK
Age: 60
Posts: 100
"1. Russian secret services have become unbelievably inept at their job – they made about every possible basic mistake they could and eventually missed their target. Not to mention endangering many innocents."
Alternatively. The Russians could have killed without leaving a trace of they wanted to. But they quite deliberately did it in a way that leaves Russian secret service fingerprints (as it were) all over it to make a point - we can hit you on your home ground and you can't stop us,
ELondonPax is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2018, 12:26
  #2449 (permalink)  
Resident insomniac
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N54 58 34 W02 01 21
Age: 75
Posts: 1,859
Whilst there is little doubt that the attack on the Skripals was attempted murder, the subsequent death of Ms Sturgess is difficult to define - if someone shoots them-self with an abandoned gun can the person who discarded the gun be held responsible?

So what would the two assumed Russians be charged with?
G-CPTN is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2018, 12:27
  #2450 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 67
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by Mike6567 View Post
I would have thought it extremely risky to contaminate the door handle late Sunday morning while the Skripals were in the house.
OK at night or when they were out but if they were in there was a good possibility they could have disturbed the GRU operatives.
Have I missed something?
I doubt we are getting anything like the whole story, and strongly suspect that there is a load of detail that's not being released.

If one of these guys was going around delivering leaflets, say for a pizza place or something, then it would probably be pretty easy to just walk along, dropping leaflets through letterboxes on that road and quickly drip or squirt that agent on the handle of the Skripal's house as he was doing it. Someone noted earlier that it wasn't common to see Russians wearing a baseball cap. I can't read what it says on that cap, and the guy is only seen wearing it after the attack, on the walk back towards the station, so maybe that was part of an attempt to blend in as someone delivering leaflets.
VP959 is online now  
Old 6th Sep 2018, 12:31
  #2451 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 67
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by G-CPTN View Post
Whilst there is little doubt that the attack on the Skripals was attempted murder, the subsequent death of Ms Sturgess is difficult to define - if someone shoots them-self with an abandoned gun can the person who discarded the gun be held responsible?

So what would the two assumed Russians be charged with?
I'm guessing that using a prohibited chemical weapon probably trumps murder in terms of the possible sentence. Someone who knows the law better may be able to clarify that, but my guess would be that it comes close to being an act of war, possibly covered by the ant-terrorist legislation.
VP959 is online now  
Old 6th Sep 2018, 12:32
  #2452 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Scotland
Age: 39
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by atakacs View Post
Russian secret services have become unbelievably inept at their job – they made about every possible basic mistake they could and eventually missed their target. Not to mention endangering many innocents.
That description certainly fits with other examples of Russian military/ military intelligence operations over recent years. That said, 'inept' is probably the wrong word to use. 'Grossly reckless' and 'amoral' are probably better descriptions. The skills and qualities required to murder people are probably very different from those that we would associate with professional intelligence officers. This sort of result shouldn't be surprising to those in charge; possibly it isn't.
Recc is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2018, 12:51
  #2453 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Liverpool
Age: 44
Posts: 471
The west rubbed Russia's nose in the s*** in 2014 and 15, now we are seeing the result. They don't care if the world knows they were responsible. It's much more fun for them to keep denying it though and laughing at the idiots who keep trying to prove they didn't. Even if tomorrow, the Russians said, 'Ok, yeah we did it', what are we going to do - declare war? There is nothing we can realistically do about it other than up our spook defenses to try to prevent further attacks.
clareprop is online now  
Old 6th Sep 2018, 14:10
  #2454 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Ilmington, Warwickshire
Posts: 76
Originally Posted by G-CPTN View Post
Whilst there is little doubt that the attack on the Skripals was attempted murder, the subsequent death of Ms Sturgess is difficult to define - if someone shoots them-self with an abandoned gun can the person who discarded the gun be held responsible?

So what would the two assumed Russians be charged with?
Agree totally - and possibly splitting legal hairs here - but an unsuspecting member of the public is far more likely to pick up a discarded bottle of perfume than a discarded and potentially dangerous gun. I believe that does make the perpetrators culpable of attempted murder. There was deliberate attempt to deceive and convince any one who came across it - airline security, police or innocent bystander - that it was harmless.

Theres no mistaking what a gun’s purpose is for.


BehindBlueEyes is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2018, 14:44
  #2455 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,332
This is not Russian spies, this is becoming a farce, and after WMD in Iraq British Intelligence canít be trusted.

i see this rather to be some disgruntled Oligarch who sent a couple of his Mafia henchmen to stir up the pot.

Maybe Uk frozen some billions , and what better way to show that UK canít defend themselves.

I am not often buying in to conspiracies, but this is just to clumsy and obvious. Skripals survived, is the proof that this was not a Russian state operation.

Certain politicians in UK and USA seems hellbent on making Russia the big bad wolf.
Oliver Stones interview with Putin is a very interesting series.

i would not be surprised if these 2 guys will disappear to never be seen again.
2unlimited is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2018, 15:08
  #2456 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Suffolk
Age: 65
Posts: 274
Russia is laughing at the UK. And quite creatively here, as the Minister of Foreign Affairs Maria Zakharova dances off against PM May .
rusty sparrow is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2018, 16:03
  #2457 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Москва/Ташкент
Age: 49
Posts: 783
Russia is laughing at the UK.
So is the whole of Europe, and the World come to think of it, nothing to do with Skripal, just a government that many accept are the worst in living memory, and perhaps history.

My thoughts are if these individuals pop up somewhere (and the passport images are not just sophisticated fakes) then we can then evaluate based upon further evidence, but given the dodgy narrative so far I have doubts they even exist, love to know what Ukraine knows about this as well.

An analysis of the EXIF of the images show that they were manipulated early May 2018, to me this suggests that this pair were "suspects" then despite what we were told, the alternate of course is that this was staged. Anyway it is most curious they did not strip the EXIF before dissemination, and even the Photo editor they had used.

I can tell you here in Moscow most people believe not a word as you'd expect, and those I have managed to extract an opinion from (such as the Ice Lady and work colleagues) are not exactly sympathetic to a traitor and to paraphrase Hugo Drax in Moonraker "Take care of Mr Skripal, make sure some harms comes to him" are typical reactions.
flash8 is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2018, 16:21
  #2458 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 76
Posts: 16,610
Originally Posted by flash8 View Post
just a government that many accept are the worst in living memory, and perhaps history..
Just a thought, what is a good Government? Perhaps a non- interventionist Government is best Government.
​​​​
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2018, 16:27
  #2459 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Москва/Ташкент
Age: 49
Posts: 783
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Just a thought, what is a good Government? Perhaps a non- interventionist Government is best Government.
​​​​
One that is respected by its people, and feared by its enemies

The UK has both in short supply.
flash8 is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2018, 17:11
  #2460 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Just north of Chester, UK.
Posts: 256
Originally Posted by flash8 View Post
One that is respected by its people, and feared by its enemies

The UK has both in short supply.
The UK has people and enemies both in short supply? Who knew?

The english language can be quite a nuisance when you're attempting to make what seems like a very clever jibe, can't it?
Captivep is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.