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The Paradise Papers

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The Paradise Papers

Old 7th Nov 2017, 18:56
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=yellowtriumph;9949598]Here's the latest figures I could find. On the sort of mileage you were talking about it makes interesting reading.

Apart from the fact that I was a self employed business owner, so they have to relevance for me. I don't think that I bothered claiming my council mileage.
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 18:57
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by annakm View Post
I think there is disgruntlement at some of the apparent hypocrisy of certain public figures.
That's the real point - those who preach the moral high ground should themselves be unimpeachable.

A bit like John Major's 'Back to Basics' - which in his case turned out to be 'back to my place'!
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 19:33
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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The whole stench is about the reason why the wealthy bury their pots of gold along the shores of far away islands. Only one reason to escape the imposition of taxes and duties, the burden of which rests on us lower mortals with the whole burden of all the security and benefits of this little country must and can provide, to enjoy for themselves and their beneficiaries alone, for ever and a day. Just try and dodge a few miserable quid or make some stupid little mistake on your tax return and see what happens. Their handsomely rewarded civil servants come down on you, no, not like a ton of bricks, it would be more like a tomato being shoved up one`s orifice by a pile driver.
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 20:01
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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I was a bit puzzled about the programme. Seems to me misrepresentation of income as a loan is straightforward evasion by itself. Loans get repaid and charge interest, so without repayment intent and interest payments don't see why HMRC couldn't pull these now, offshore tax haven or not.
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 20:40
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
No, but I expect I could if I had the resources to pay a clever accountant to sort a wheeze out for me. Though the cost would probably exceed the benefit.
So if you refuse to pay more Tax than you are legally liable for why do you expect others not to do the same?

If anyone wants to pay more tax there isnt anything stopping them - HMRC will take a cheque.
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 21:49
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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It might just explain why countries have no money and are all in debt though..... it's all been hidden abroad.
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 22:05
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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The U.K. Provides a safe environment to do business and to live in (mostly). Cough ahem. ..
Any one who requires that protection should pay their tax .. person or company .
If they don't then fk them. Make it openly public which firms pay proper uk corporation tax and which don't..
If any one actually gives a shit then don't go to a jimmy Carr show. Or a take that concert.

But let's face it that won't happen
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 22:05
  #128 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
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As of April 6th 2017 anyone born in the UK of a UK father (married father) is considered by the UK government to be a UK domicile. This branding stays with the individual for life even though they may never have spent more then the first day of life in the UK and may not even hold a British passport.
It's not surprising that some people will go to great lengths to protect their money from an action that brands one for life as something one is not at the whim of a government department in a land far away.
Which reminds me, whence derives the word fair in the context so often used in conjunction with tax; the one word that keeps getting bandied around as though it's a justification for absolutely everything and much that isn't.
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 22:08
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Until they piss their pants in some foreign hell hole and demand the uk gets them safely home
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 23:43
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
If anyone wants to express outrage, then express it at the laws that allow people to avoid tax.
Errr, yeah, what did you think all the fuss was about?

Apple stands to lose billions if the tax loopholes which allow it to report negligible profits in the jurisdictions where it operates are closed. That's a lot more money than you or I can spend "influencing" our lawmakers through lobbying, political donations, or outright bribery.

This is the crux of the problem. It's not a level playing field as you get people like yourself with tunnel vision about whether or not some corporation has followed the law, without considering whether those same corporations use their mass to make sure the rules stay written in their favour.

Those companies also spend decent coin on PR to make sure there are people in every corner of the media saying or repeating that it's acceptable that they do not pay tax on the profits they make, that it's greedy to expect anyone to pay tax, that anyone who complains about it is just jealous because of a difference in wealth, etc etc. Diversionary tactics to get the serfs bickering with each other instead of focusing on the fact that Apple has sequestered more than the GDP of many countries in a tax haven where it won't be put to any use. Any economist can tell you taking that much money out of general circulation has a depressing effect on the macroeconomy.
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Old 8th Nov 2017, 00:22
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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Chubby,

What do you think—Apple has hidden the money under a mattress in Jersey? It has been deposited in banks located in low tax environments. The banks then lend that very same money out to whoever needs and qualifies for a loan—a homeowner or an Apple business in another country. The money ?App,e and others have put in these low tax countries is being used and invested.

Look up fungible, please.

GF
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Old 8th Nov 2017, 03:11
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by galaxy flyer View Post
Chubby,

What do you think—Apple has hidden the money under a mattress in Jersey? It has been deposited in banks located in low tax environments. The banks then lend that very same money out to whoever needs and qualifies for a loan—a homeowner or an Apple business in another country. The money ?App,e and others have put in these low tax countries is being used and invested.

Look up fungible, please.

GF
It is loaned back to Apple US or Apple UK at extraordinarily high interest rates, high enough in fact that after deducting the cost of finance from Apple Jersey Inc, the profits for the financial year are tiny, and so is the company tax bill. Meanwhile the finance company in Jersey or Ireland or Cayman Islands makes a mint and a token amount of tax if any is paid on that profit.

One of the many flavours of tax minimisation schemes used by the likes of Apple. Net result being the taxpayers in the US or UK or wherever are cheated out of a few hundred million dollars or more per megacorp.

Why shouldn't we complain just because it's legal? It used to be legal to smoke in kindergartens.
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Old 8th Nov 2017, 03:39
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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Here's an idea..The chancellor can make the UK a tax haven , sit back and watch the funds cascading through the letter box.
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Old 8th Nov 2017, 03:56
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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Chubby,

How about reducing taxes to one low level eliminating the incentive to avoid taxes? Surely, there is a tax rate that would cut the legs out from under the tax havens.

GF
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Old 8th Nov 2017, 06:05
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
If anyone wants to express outrage, then express it at the laws that allow people to avoid tax.
Instead, they jump into a UBER Taxi that takes them to Starbucks, read the Guardian, while posting rants on Twitter from their iPhone.........to denounce the evils of Capitalism!
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Old 8th Nov 2017, 06:26
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
Nope, I have just spent the whole of my adult life not doing the envy thing
I put this point to a Tory mate yesterday, he has a reputation for being somewhat of a tightwad. He isn't poor, a retired business owner. I asked him if it were possible to levy higher taxes on F1 drivers, top footballers, pop stars and multinational businesses and give him twenty quid a week more on his pension would he be in favour of that? Significantly he refused to give me an answer but just went on about Corbyn.
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Old 8th Nov 2017, 06:28
  #137 (permalink)  
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How about reducing taxes to one low level eliminating the incentive to avoid taxes?
It's a well known fact that when the rate drops, the tax take actually increases. The problem is that the loony left scream that the rich are looking after themselves when in fact, the meritocracy principle is working as it should. I know many people who don't want overtime as it pushes them into a higher tax bracket such that the incremental take home pay is not worth the bother. Utter madness.
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Old 8th Nov 2017, 06:31
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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Well if that is true it would pay to, for example, halve the tax rates. Are you seriously suggesting that would increase the amount collected?
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Old 8th Nov 2017, 07:05
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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Lol.

If that were true Jersey with its 0% company tax rate must be raking it in.
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Old 8th Nov 2017, 07:24
  #140 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chronus View Post
The whole stench is about the reason why the wealthy bury their pots of gold along the shores of far away islands. Only one reason to escape the imposition of taxes and duties, the burden of which rests on us lower mortals with the whole burden of all the security and benefits of this little country must and can provide, to enjoy for themselves and their beneficiaries alone, for ever and a day. Just try and dodge a few miserable quid or make some stupid little mistake on your tax return and see what happens. Their handsomely rewarded civil servants come down on you, no, not like a ton of bricks, it would be more like a tomato being shoved up one`s orifice by a pile driver.
The problem is that we have far too much government and it is far too greedy. It is 40% of the economy and it squeezes every penny it can out of the people who work in the real world. Everybody tries to dodge tax; pensions, ISAs, duty free, paying cash. And at least a million successful, high earning people have left the country to work and contribute to the economy in places they aren't punished so much. Most of the tax in Britain is paid by the rich, they are punished for being successful, which is pretty stupid. There are many legal loopholes set up by the government to manipulate the economy. Investing in forestry, films, farming etc for instance. So a rich person would be pretty stupid to give money to the government to waste when they, quite legally, don't have to.
What we need is a government that is 20% of GDP and provides us with the services we actually need and nothing more. Currently we have a huge diversity industry, a huge global warming industry, an HS2 white elephant, 0.7% of GDP going to African dictators, army horses, the Red Arrows and many other profligate wastes of what we have worked to earn.
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