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EasyJet: Inside the cockpit

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EasyJet: Inside the cockpit

Old 22nd Aug 2017, 17:43
  #141 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Spin training is an optional part of the PPL. Usually done as part 10a or 10b

You don't require an aerobatic rating (which isn't I believe in force yet) to do one.

Spiral dive is nothing to do with UPRT training it is part of lesson 15 in the PPL.

Funny enough spinning on instruments is part of glider training as its deemed an effective way of unloading the airframe if they get sucked into a CB.
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 17:50
  #142 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2011
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I would much rather see the cadet training videos from Chinese carriers
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 18:04
  #143 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
Spiral dive is nothing to do with UPRT training it is part of lesson 15 in the PPL.
Instructor: "Shut your eyes ... ... ... now open your eyes and recover"

Me, with eyes still shut: "I felt nothing, and I heard no change in engine revs, so therefore you've put us into a spiral dive, so all I've got to do is spot whether it's to the left or right". Opens eyes and recovers from spiral dive.

Of course that was simply gaming the instructor, which might turn out to be easier than a real unusual attitudes recovery (I haven't had to do one for real yet).
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 18:22
  #144 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
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People Like Us - The Airline Pilot

Admittedly not easyjet but this was a much better documentary taken several years ago.
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 19:17
  #145 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Southampton
Posts: 684
I know that it has to be the production, but it did try to make it appear that it was the first time the girl in the Slingsby had done a stall, because at that stage there is nothing frightening about practicing it at all.
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 20:13
  #146 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2009
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I have not done base training in a real aeroplane for 30 years because with zero flight time simulators we no longer have that requirement. When I last did it in a real aeroplane (Boeing 747) the instructor would pull an outboard engine back to idle on takeoff at V1 and we would fly a circuit with an engine out, touch down and then takeoff on all engines. It was good experience and the flight engineer had to work very hard. The EasyJet cadets seemed to miss out on simulated engine failures on their 1179 type rating.

As regards the TV programme. I expect all the crews all went into it determined to appear professional and after many hours with the TV crew they let their guard down briefly and that was the bit that was used. Anyone remember the 1990 TV documentary Jet Jockeys? Poor T** D****n was really stitched up.
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 21:07
  #147 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Age: 46
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My first thought on seeing this programme was 'who the hell calls a kid Cornelius'?

The poor sod! Not only that, his mother penned a song in his honour and sings it on TV. Dear me, but she's up to her neck in debt on his account so I guess she can do what she wants on that score.

Interesting programme so far, but not sure that Cornelius Wilson telling a female colleague that he's a 'boobs' man does much for his or Easy Jet's image. Mind you, she did ask him so maybe that's ok. I just would have thought that they both had something more important to be doing considering they were meant to be working.

Where is that airfield in / near Gatwick that they practise out of?
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Old 23rd Aug 2017, 00:42
  #148 (permalink)  
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What a different world. Used to fly in an Auster to Stansted, have coffee with the blokes in the tower, pay me 2/6d and buzz off back to SEN.

It was more than odds on, that no other aircraft would have come or gone.

Come to think of it, even in 1970, I'd fly past at night on my way home from Luton and they'd be glad of someone to talk to.

While I'm down memory lane, it was 10/6d at LHR.

The point is that we could have Stansted all day if needed. One fleet manager had us new Viscount F/Os watch the end of the runway go under the nose at 1,500' and then land off that.

Stalls in the new BAC 1-11 were at 30k' and through to the push. I just don't know how these kids can be flying this kit with virtually no experience. Yes, I'm green with envy, but that's not the point. Captain incapacitated and it's not a nice day with 10 airfields to choose from. Dark and stormy. 35kts across the only very wet strip available, and . . .

Well, I wrote something on Quora that fits the bill. Sorry, don't know how to link it so will have to be a paste.

A PPL gets a chance to save the day when an airline crew are incapacitated.

All young pilots hope this will happen so let’s just say the crew are suddenly abducted by aliens who have promised to return them in good fettle. The #1 opens the door and you make yourself comfortable, having first strapped your backside safely to the seat. Here’s where you mention "descend and maintain flight level 180 at your discretion," in your post.

What kind of ATC is that?! At your discretion? A passenger’s discretion is not what they should be relying on. You reply, trying not to let your voice reach soprano levels, ‘I have no idea if it’s safe to maintain FL180 - you gotter tell me or I’m going to go back, sit down, fold my arms and pout. This should make them pay attention. Oh, and pressing the button to transmit.

"By pressing the Push-to-talk button on the back of the control wheel, I can activate the microphone and talk with ATC."

Hmmm . . . this would be the button right near to the autopilot instinctive cut out would it not? Better not hit that just by mistake. That birrrlp birrrlp noise means you have now got your hands full of a real bit of kit and it will feel big and cumbersome and go into nasty attitudes just because you’ve sneezed.

You need your hands for other jobs, so let’s let George fly for now. Autopilots got called George in WWII I think.

Now the golden rule.

When things go TU, Aviate. Navigate. Communicate. Well, sounds like you’re doing well with the first one. You haven’t pressed the autopilot cut-out and the screen with the blue and brown on it is showing blue at the top. That is a really, really good way up to be and you need to just think aviate. Blue at the top but the nose is slightly down in your picture and you’re descending at nearly 2000′ per minute. Ooo-errr. But you know a thing or two so you put the height lock in. Great. The nose comes up and the vertical speed goes back to zero. Phew!

278.5 kts. Thank heavens for that extra half knot. But wait! Now the aircraft is flying level and the speed is falling off because the auto-throttle has been knocked off as the captain was lifted out of his seat by his abductors. Gasping is not helping. You reach for the power levers. Yey! You feel a surge of power, but now the speed tape is showing more . . . and more . . . and even more. Soon there is a clattering noise that comes from the ‘going too fast warning thingy’. And shouldn’t you be navigating by now? But you need to communicate before you can navigate. Things are tense and you press the button. Aaaaagh, you’ve finally pressed the autopilot cut out. Blue is not quite at the top and the clacking noise is really making your teeth itch.

You shout MAYDAY. Then you shout it again because first time you forgot to press to transmit. Now blue is a bit to one side and the vertical speed is showing 3000′ per minute down. You pull, but now your pulling causes the banked aircraft to start a hard left turn. Darn. that’s where the bad weather is. The clacking is relentless, as are the calls from ATC. You press to talk to them but this time you’re pulling so hard on the controls you press the thingy that spins that wheel by your right knee. Oh. That’s not good. You’re turning much harder now, but the good news is your climbing like a homesick angel. Oh fooey, you say - or words the that effect - as you fly into the tops of a Cumulonimbus cloud. You reach for the power levers but at that moment there’s one hell of a bump and you shut the power off due to the 3g your arm is subjected to. Now you notice blue is kind of to the left and the vertical speed is showing maximum. You can’t hear the clacker now due to the noise of hail beating against the glass. With sterling effort you pull on the controls and roll the blue to the top. Woop Woop, PULL UP, TERRAIN! Woop Woop, PULL UP, TERRAIN!

Yes, alright, I heard you the first time! you say.

In an inspired moment you open the power levers and pull on the controls. The Ground proximity warning stops - just at the time the FUEL LOW PRESSURE warning light comes on, along with the master warning system. No one is there to manage the fuel. OMG, the starboard engine has flamed out. Blue is now hard over to the right and the nose is dropping again. Hail is beating the hell out of the glass and a flash of lightning stabs the nosecone with one hell of a bang. Now blue is at the bottom and you’re not sure if you should push or pull the controls. The port engine flames out just as the nose drops so that just about all the indications are insane. The clacking over-speed noise doesn’t help.

You feel the spiralling motion tightening up. You know you’re spinning. Everything is getting darker in torrential rain. There’s another blinding flash.

Oh, MOTHER you scream.

Yes? What’s the matter, a gentle voice asks.

You sit up in bed, the sweat soaking your pyjamas.

There, there dear. Are you having another of your flying dreams again? She opens the curtains and lets the sunlight in.
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Old 23rd Aug 2017, 08:02
  #149 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Age: 62
Posts: 37
i was a bit (very) aghast that the (very) young lad who did not know of Biscay (he was PF FAO-LGW)

nor actually knew where he was - he could have said to Skip we are west of /abeam la Rochelle - coming up to Nantes or we just passed Santander - something like that - all places that in a poo poo you might want to know to drop into in a hurry>?

admittedly i like my Geography too - flying say from Athens to London I can look out out the window and know full well that after a while i will be over Corfu and a bit later Dubrovnik - its something you just have in your bones
this lad said he didn't do geography!

I gather he is a dual dutch national but Biskaje is rather similar sounding to Biscay (its a big bloody well known patch of water)

the training skipper did say he was very pleased with him on the day
mentoring and his abilities hopefully will see him turn out to be a credit to the company
the young chap said it was his dream - if he reads this then nurture every moment

i have a good pal who is 30 (born 1987)
(I am 60) and I said to him last week would you like to go and see the new film Dunkirk - he said to me whats Dunkirk?
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Old 23rd Aug 2017, 08:43
  #150 (permalink)  
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I felt genuinely sorry for the poor guy when he looked out the window at the bloody sh view of Bristol saing "this is home now".
As for the "popped" CBs: not popped but pulled and pushed in a certain sequence to have the system reseted. Flight deck crew is not supposed to know all the hundreds of CBs by heart let alone the various reset procedures of which ones to pull (sometimes 2-3 of them), how long to keep them pulled and how long to wait after the reset to have the system restarted. Better talk to a mx guy who must know all this more or less by heart.
Chip butty: never heard of it yet (never wanted to to be honest although I had the pleasure to see an aussie guy eating slices of bread stuffed with chips and rice) but I quess one might become a good pilot without knowing all the strange things eaten in the UK with vinegar, rhubarb and such.

Last edited by TBSC; 23rd Aug 2017 at 09:05.
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Old 23rd Aug 2017, 09:36
  #151 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2016
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TBSC ....... I thought both you and the international airline community might find the following helpful:

"A chip butty is a sandwich made with chips (i.e. French fried potatoes) on buttered white bread or a bread roll, often with an added condiment such as ketchup, brown sauce, mayonnaise, or malt vinegar. The chip butty can be found in fish and chip shops and other casual dining establishments in the United Kingdom. It is also known as a chip sandwich, chip batch, chip roll, chip muffin, piece and chips, chip piece, or chip sarnie. One variation is the chip bap or chip barm, which uses a floury bap or barm cake instead of sliced white bread. In the East Midlands a chip butty made with a bread roll is referred to as a chip cob. (Source Wikipedia)

I should add that a Sandwich is sometimes known as a 'sarnie'.
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Old 23rd Aug 2017, 09:38
  #152 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Home counties
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I don't think failure to know the Bay of Chip Butties was at all significant. No big deal.
The only reason I knew where it is when I started flying was because I'd steamed across it a couple of times and had heard of the surfing due the shelving effect.
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Old 23rd Aug 2017, 09:42
  #153 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 228
Recipe for a Chip Butty


Chips from a chip shop or home made
Batch Loaf Bread or sliced white bread
Tomato Sauce (ketchup), HP sauce or a brown sauce


Make sure the chips (french fries) are not too greasy and have been well drained. Butter two slices of white sliced bread. Next add chips in a manner akin to herringbone floor tiling, making sure to minimise any gaps. Apply tomato sauce. Put both slices of bread together, then the important step - put the assembled sandwich on a flat surface and slap it hard several times with with an open hand to crush the filling. Eat immediately! Enjoy!

Last edited by Homsap; 23rd Aug 2017 at 10:08.
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Old 23rd Aug 2017, 10:23
  #154 (permalink)  
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On costs, while the training system might welcome a 120k cash injection from the bank of mum and dad, the reality is you do not get to start unless you have the aptitude. While the military pay your costs they also own you body and soul.

In the civilian market, once accepted the job of the school it to train you as a pilot rather than wash you out. In the military it is to train you as an officer and if you wash out can re-branch you to a different job.

Now my nephew is, I think, behind repaid some of his training costs by EZY. My son in law has been promised 100% of his costs once he qualifies and drip fed over 3 years.

Both models pay for your training but transfer the risk to the student. In the past, when BA had its own training school they took the risk. Apparently, if you then chose to join a different airline there were golden handcuffs they you needed to pay to be released from your contract. Lufthansa I believe found it cheaper to pay the handshakes and get trained pilots as no risk.
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Old 23rd Aug 2017, 10:26
  #155 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
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Daughter on a twinning exchange with a German family. The father worked for Euro control. Lets say there were issues at work.

One day he asked Miss PN what was a Knuckle Butty as one of his colleagues had said he would give him one.

Yes, there can be language issues.
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Old 23rd Aug 2017, 11:01
  #156 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by InSeat19c View Post
Where is that airfield in / near Gatwick that they practise out of?
That was mentioned on the Monday 21st programme - it's nowhere near Gatwick, it's in the south of France (Nimes I think). Knowing how busy Gatwick is I was struggling to believe that they'd be practicing touch-and-gos there.

Re the editing - it was massively creative and of course what they show on the programme is not an exhaustive account of the full pilot training - to assume that someone hasn't done a particular manoeuvre simply because it wasn't shown is ridiculous. The editing itself was designed to give flow, not represent the actual course of events - tons of the external shots were not at the airfield that they were actually coming in to or departing and, for example, the training captain landing at Gatwick showed a nose shot passing over the eastern car parks followed by a call for the landing gear!
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Old 23rd Aug 2017, 11:24
  #157 (permalink)  
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In the Radio Times, before the first episode was shown, the schedule was for 3 programmes. The first episode was given as 1/3. The second episode was shown as 2/2. Did someone pull the plug on 3/3 I wonder.....
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Old 23rd Aug 2017, 11:30
  #158 (permalink)  
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For clarification on base training - I did mine about 25 years ago (737). No engine failures, simulated or otherwise, in the real aeroplane, just about six circuits. All the failure stuff was done in the simulator. At the time, I was one of the early people to go straight from PA34 to jet.

The fact that there were no engine cuts in ABT does not represent a sudden shift in policy.
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Old 23rd Aug 2017, 13:33
  #159 (permalink)  
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captain outside the cockpit chatting to f/o mother;
My Wife, who is a nervous flyer, calms down when when she sees one of the FD crew coming into the cabin. She now knows there are no problems.

Chip Butty - I wonder how many on here would know what to do with a bitterballen.

i was a bit (very) aghast that the (very) young lad who did not know of Biscay (he was PF FAO-LGW)

nor actually knew where he was
Don't be fooled by TV, he knew exactly where he was.
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Old 23rd Aug 2017, 13:39
  #160 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by wtsmg View Post
It was changed from 3 episodes to 2 last month.
Could there be conspiracy afoot? Having not seen the 2nd episode yet I flicked on ITV Player this afternoon and noticed that episode 1 has been pulled - usually programmes are available for a month after broadcast. Hmmmm.....
Looking forward to episode 2 though, itching to find out who's a bum and who's a boobs man this week!!
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