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The Train Set HS2 and the rest

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The Train Set HS2 and the rest

Old 22nd Jul 2017, 12:02
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LGS6753 View Post
The reason we have HS2 is because the EU mandated its member states to open certain high-speed rail links across its length and width. As usual, it was unconcerned about us being an island - we merely had to conform to what is an essentially continental system.
If we were operating as an independent sovereign country we would first address the eleven identified pinch-points on the network, and spend the rest of the 50,000,000,000+ on something useful.
The EU Trans-European High-Speed Rail Network only seems to be particularly bothered with taking the interoperable line as far as London. But if we can blame HS2 on the EU, so much the better...
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 14:36
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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So HS2 can be Brexited then?
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 14:55
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Originally Posted by gemma10 View Post
Concur with Planemike totally. All these billions to be spent on what, a time saving of half an hour. How about the south east here in Hastings having some new infrastrucure. For eg: Hastings to Southampton by rail, almost four hours and up to three changes of train. Or try driving the same route along mostly single carriage roads for half the distance. At least the A21 will soon be completed. Grrrrrr.


Are you sure? I type this at 15.50 with the next train from Hastings to Southampton shown as the 16.14 with one change arriving in three hours and five minutes. What's the level of usage and requirement for that journey as against London - oop t'midlands and the north?
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 15:14
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
So HS2 can be Brexited then?
Would love to see this whole vanity project cancelled, forthwith......
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 17:04
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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I am rather reminded of Ruskin's comment on the Midland railway to Manchester through the Derbyshire Dales: 'All so a Buxton fool might find himself in Bakewell and a Bakewell fool in Buxton, at the end of twelve minutes'
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 21:25
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
All this talk of new rail lines for increased traffic.
I hear that canal boating is becoming increasingly popular. Perhaps we should start digging some new canals?
Canal boating is already very popular. There are currently more narrow boats on the UK canal system than there was during the industrial revolution.

As for digging new canals, I volunteer on a project to re-open the Grantham canal which winds its way through the Vale of Belvoir to the Trent at Nottingham - just one of a lot of canals waiting for oodles of cash to get them into working order again.
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Old 23rd Jul 2017, 13:42
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There are currently more narrow boats on the UK canal system than there was during the industrial revolution.
So many, in fact, that getting permanent moorings is difficult and expensive and more marinas are really needed.

Ah! The Grantham canal. Many years ago, when the project was starting, a female Conservative County Councillor opposed it because 'with heavy barges, the old bridges won't be strong enough to take them safely'.............Presumably, by Conservative, she felt that anything as modern as Archimedes Principle was dangerously modern....
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Old 23rd Jul 2017, 23:31
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Canals only work on a flat earth. QED.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 07:24
  #49 (permalink)  
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Way back in the very early 19th Century, a canal was proposed across the country between Carlisle and Newcastle.
A section was built between Carlisle and the Solway Firth in the early 1820s, but the construction of a railway from Newcastle in the 1830s ultimately sealed the fate of the canal idea - though it was reconsidered in the late 1990s.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 09:05
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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I feel very sorry for the folks in Kegworth.
Not only is the village on the A6 trunk-road, it is surrounded by the Midland Main Line, the M1, the M42, the recently widened A453, and East Midlands Airport, they are now faced with prospect of HS2.
I believe the line was originally due to pass beneath the airport, but will now sweep majestically across the Soar Valley on a viaduct to be built between the village and the A6/A453/A50/M1 roundabout.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 12:03
  #51 (permalink)  
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All
Govt have also cancelled electrification of Leeds - Manchester route, northern powerhouse not so powerfull now that there no northern based ministers of consequance. Intersting figures on expenditure doing the rounds today in the papers on ammount invested in transport in the reigons, Yorkshire & Humberside 190 per head, NE 220, NW 680, SE 1943 !


With regards canals the Germans completed the Rhine - Danube canal in early 90,s (it did run late and was over budget I beleive) but they are still being built, just not in the UK.


Redhillphil
With regards the Great Central you are slightly incorrect. The southern section from Below Leicester could be reopened and indeed a survey was undertaken in the early 90,s as it was put forward as an alternative freight and roll on roll off route for truck trailers as it was built to Europena loading gauge I am told. Only know this as one of my university freinds under took the survey for approx 12 months.It just needs the will and as most of the bottle neck is at the London end of the rail system it would indeed help. I am aware that the route has been burried and or occupied further north but we do not suffer the congestion you have down there as we do not get the money as I said in my first paragraph to have new or even just longer trains.


HS 2 is just about increasing London Comuter belt, and as for comparison with HS1 trains v Virgin East coast, they should be noticably better as they are not 40 years old in the case of the HST,s, or slightly younger for the electric traction.


If our countries political master do not start to sort out this inequality of spend the Brexit debate pro and anti may start to look like small beer in comparison.


Cheers
Mr Mac
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 13:22
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Bit of a problem in Brackley, Mr. Mac. Went past the railway some years ago - last century I think - and the embankment was being dug away and a housing estate built on the flattened land.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 13:25
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Turin,

Canals are actually built on a slope. I seem to recall that the fall is about 4 inches to the mile, so that the water is always moving slightly to prevent it becoming stagnant.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 13:30
  #54 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by radeng View Post
Bit of a problem in Brackley, Mr. Mac. Went past the railway some years ago - last century I think - and the embankment was being dug away and a housing estate built on the flattened land.
No problem...nothing a compulsory purchase order wouldn't solve ! ( see HS2 for example )

The lighter side of the rail debate.....near to where I used to live, in a Tory / UKIP enclave, a local Tory, naturally, councillor for whom no issue was too insignificant to warrant a column. or three, of gushing praise in the local rag, opined that "people may think I'm bonkers " or word very similar ( no idea as to why this should be councillor ) when he faithfully tramped the length of the former Stafford to Wellington route, now a cycle / bridle track. with some industrial units and some expensive houses, and declared the route could, and should, be reinstated. electrified and all for a mere 230m ! bargain !
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 13:37
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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No problem...nothing a compulsory purchase order wouldn't solve !
For a disgusting amount - pre-blight value plus 10%. That is NOWHERE near enough of an uplift to pay legal fees, stamp duty, removal fees, costs and time of finding a new house at the same price, possible increased travel to work/shops costs and general recompense for inconvenience. Unless, just maybe, the present place is worth around 500k.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 13:45
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Mac View Post
All
Govt have also cancelled electrification of Leeds - Manchester route, northern powerhouse not so powerfull now that there no northern based ministers of consequance. Intersting figures on expenditure doing the rounds today in the papers on ammount invested in transport in the reigons, Yorkshire & Humberside 190 per head, NE 220, NW 680, SE 1943 !


With regards canals the Germans completed the Rhine - Danube canal in early 90,s (it did run late and was over budget I beleive) but they are still being built, just not in the UK.


Redhillphil
With regards the Great Central you are slightly incorrect. The southern section from Below Leicester could be reopened and indeed a survey was undertaken in the early 90,s as it was put forward as an alternative freight and roll on roll off route for truck trailers as it was built to Europena loading gauge I am told. Only know this as one of my university freinds under took the survey for approx 12 months.It just needs the will and as most of the bottle neck is at the London end of the rail system it would indeed help. I am aware that the route has been burried and or occupied further north but we do not suffer the congestion you have down there as we do not get the money as I said in my first paragraph to have new or even just longer trains.


HS 2 is just about increasing London Comuter belt, and as for comparison with HS1 trains v Virgin East coast, they should be noticably better as they are not 40 years old in the case of the HST,s, or slightly younger for the electric traction.


If our countries political master do not start to sort out this inequality of spend the Brexit debate pro and anti may start to look like small beer in comparison.


Cheers
Mr Mac

Sorry Mr. Mac but the Great Central's London extension couldn't be re-opened as anything useful. The trackbed has been built on at Brackley and the formation destroyed. I've already mentioned the Leicester problem - let alone the Rugby problem. The Great Central was built to a more generous gauge but not the "continental" gauge as is popularly thought of. The "Continental" gauge - or more correctly the UIC gauge was not decided upon until a meeting in Paris some years after the London Extension was completed.
The only relief to the north is a brand new purpose built railway built - which it will be - to UIC gauge and future proofed. Everything that's been objected to by various parties for various reasons has already been done to death when HS1 was built - even to the craziness of the Maidstone residents who objected to the line whilst quietly(?) ignoring the eight lanes of the M20 between them and HS1.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 14:45
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Originally Posted by radeng View Post
For a disgusting amount - pre-blight value plus 10%. That is NOWHERE near enough of an uplift to pay legal fees, stamp duty, removal fees, costs and time of finding a new house at the same price, possible increased travel to work/shops costs and general recompense for inconvenience. Unless, just maybe, the present place is worth around 500k.
According to relatives living very near Mexborough but fortunately not directly affected, there are no equivalent houses for many miles.
Moving from the affected area will either be to inferior housing stock in the town, or many miles away to more expensive houses.
To the problems you listed, add disruption of schooling and close family and community ties.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 21:17
  #58 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
According to relatives living very near Mexborough but fortunately not directly affected, there are no equivalent houses for many miles.
Moving from the affected area will either be to inferior housing stock in the town, or many miles away to more expensive houses.
To the problems you listed, add disruption of schooling and close family and community ties.
Why can't they build suitable replacement houses for those displaced by HS2?

Largely tongue-in-cheek - but why not?
It might require emergency legislation to build houses in Green Belt but the disruption of HS2 will screw-up the GB anyway.

Surely it would adequately compensate those who have to make way for HS2?
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 21:30
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Because it's easier just to shove the money at them and tell them to excrete off?
HS2 will destroy much more important parts of England than mere suburbs of Sheffield.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 21:31
  #60 (permalink)  
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Redhillphil
As has been said by others you can compulsory purchase housing, and concrete bridges to replace Blackley viaduct are very cheap when you look at proposed HS2 costs. Digging out back filled cutting is also cheap in comparison with building new ones from scratch, never mind new tunnels. Also as the issue is at the southern end of the routes into London with congestion you would bring the freight and piggy back trucks on further north around Daventry say ,where you could easily build in links to existing trunk routes. I admit that rail freight is falling in UK partly due to demise of coal fired power stations, but you could usefully pull some European bound trucks of the M25 along with removing some of the container train journey releasing more track space so that people can commute from even further into London should they want to on existing track or with slight enhancement's.


As for loading gauge, as the line as was proposed in 1990,s was to be single track with long loops for freight only you could centralise in tunnels and bridges as is common railway practice throughout the world. I happen to be working on a project with a rail portion, so asked specialist (DB) when I noticed your post. They said no problem when I mentioned this afternoon in passing. However we are talking about Germany where they do have high speed lines but alos all the older existing ones are all still very much in use and have also been improved.


The big problem with the GC is that it just is not sexy enough for government's in this country. We are becoming more like a 3rd world country where they must have new airports, or the latest jets when what they really need is an adequate airport and some 737 not a 747 / 777. This usually come about as someone / company is on the make, and I do not think HS2 is any different especially when you look at which companies are behind it, and their success or lack thereof of bringing in any large capital project where Govt is involved on time or budget. Anyway it will be interesting to observe the bun fight I just wish we did not have to pay for it.


Regards
Mr Mac
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