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Paying a tip

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Paying a tip

Old 31st May 2017, 10:06
  #1 (permalink)  
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Paying a tip

Have I missed something, I thought that a tip on a restaurant bill was discretionary. There seems to be an ever increasing trend now of adding the tip to the bill you pay.

Another annoyance I have over tipping is paying a tip on the whole bill. The VAT element of the bill should not be part of the sum on which a tip is calculated.
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Old 31st May 2017, 10:11
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I have just had that with a pub/restaurant in Aberdeen; a sudden 20% on the bill. I will not be going there again. I cannot remember if there is VAT on food when eaten in or taken away.
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Old 31st May 2017, 11:21
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VAT on eating in none if a takeaway.
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Old 31st May 2017, 11:37
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Originally Posted by matkat View Post
VAT on eating in none if a takeaway.
I don't think that is correct.

If you sell freshly cooked products for consumption while they are still hot they are standard-rated.

Some of these products are, however, not sold with such an intention. They may only be hot/warm as they are in the process of cooling down. Examples include pies, pasties, sausage rolls and similar savoury products, cooked chickens or joints of meat, bread products and croissants. The liability will depend, therefore, on how you prepare and sell them.

If they are sold specifically for consumption whilst still hot (as a result of being freshly prepared, baked, cooked, reheated or kept warm), they will be standard-rated.

If they are sold warm simply because they happen to be freshly baked, are in the process of cooling down and are not intended to be eaten while hot; or cold or chilled at the time of purchase, they can be zero-rated.

What do we mean by ‘specifically sold for consumption whilst still hot’?

You sell food specifically for consumption whilst still hot if you either:

have an established hot take-away trade and are selling the food as a part of that trade advertise it as either hot take-away food or in any other way which indicates that it is meant to be eaten while still hot sell it accompanied by napkins, forks, etc to enable it to be eaten before it cools.
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Old 31st May 2017, 11:55
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Our local Asian grocer used to sell VAT-free pre-made curries etc from the fridge.

There was a microwave sitting around somewhere in the shop which customers could, after buying these VAT free cold groceries, do what they liked with.

I think they must have got frightened by some of the new rules, though, as the microwave is no longer there.
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Old 31st May 2017, 12:48
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A local village shop still has a customer-use microwave, for heating pasties etc, in order to get around the VAT rules.

Some of the VAT rules really need an overhaul in my view, as there are some very odd distinctions between items that attract VAT and items that don't, like this hot food thing.
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Old 31st May 2017, 12:50
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Apparently most young voters support Corbyn.
If elected, Labour are committed to raising income tax.
If I am affected by such tax increases then the first thing I shall do is to refuse to pay any discretionary service charge or any charge at all at any restaurant where any service personnel is under the age of 40.
This seemingly mean action will serve many purposes.
It will make a point that would be quite satisfying.
It will save me money which can be put towards my tax bill occasioned by the imputed vote of server or his/her ilk.
It will be of enormous benefit to that server too for the withdrawal of a tip will ensure that:
They are not pressured into a false declaration on their tax return.
Their chance of making it to the higher tax brackets, the punitive ones, are made more remote. The loss of income will mean that they will be relieved of the frustration of being taxed on it.
It will ensure that I can only ever visit one restaurant once.
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Old 31st May 2017, 18:26
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Our local Asian grocer used to sell VAT-free pre-made curries etc from the fridge.

There was a microwave sitting around somewhere in the shop which customers could, after buying these VAT free cold groceries, do what they liked with.

I think they must have got frightened by some of the new rules, though, as the microwave is no longer there.
I wouldn't be surprised to find that the removal of the microwave was more to do with health and safety and the worry about being sued rather than VAT concerns.
I could just imagine someone putting a curry in the oven for a couple of minutes too long then burning themselves when taking it out or eating it oe not heating it up enough and getting food poisoning then trying to get compo from the shop owner.
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Old 1st Jun 2017, 01:29
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Only ever received a "tip" once for doing my job. After landing back home at London, a VERY large and somewhat noisy Mexican passenger forced his way on to the flight deck as he disembarked and INSISTED that I accept a 40 oz. bottle of Tequila as a tip. I demurred, and explained that it was against Company policy, no need, etc. etc. but his large frame and increasingly aggressive manner finally persuaded me to take the easiest way out and just accept.

H.M. Customs then charged me 5 pounds duty ! ( still a good bargain, tho' I was a but dubious about the dead beetle floating in it, some proof of authenticity ? )
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Old 1st Jun 2017, 01:31
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Originally Posted by 419 View Post
............ not heating it up enough and getting food poisoning then trying to get compo from the shop owner.
If you get food poisoning after failing to heat the product up sufficiently then it must have been off already anyway. You should be able to eat it cold, if that is your preference.
Ergo, retailer is in the poo anyway.
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Old 1st Jun 2017, 10:13
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Its becoming increasing common for a basic level of tip to be added automatically, with the option to add to it again if you want to.

Thankfully we're not in America where tipping is virtually mandatory and everyone has their hand out due to the miserable basic hourly rates of pay.
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Old 1st Jun 2017, 11:21
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I have heard of people in the US being pursued onto the street by irate staff if they have left no tip (or an inadequate one) I understand that 20% is the norm there (10% here in the UK) which can come as a bit of a shock the first time you come across it. Of course restaurant owners take advantage of this system to pay miserable rates to their staff as mentioned by Metro man.
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Old 1st Jun 2017, 11:33
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Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav View Post
I have heard of people in the US being pursued onto the street by irate staff if they have left no tip (or an inadequate one) I understand that 20% is the norm there (10% here in the UK) which can come as a bit of a shock the first time you come across it. Of course restaurant owners take advantage of this system to pay miserable rates to their staff as mentioned by Metro man.

In complete contrast I remember being pursued down the street in Auckland NZ by a waiter who wanted to give me about 2 NZ$ of change I had left as a tip. Bill was NZ $58, had left 60 in notes and left the restraunt.... Suggested a charity box, don't know if they had one!!
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Old 1st Jun 2017, 11:59
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I usually leave a decent tip, unless either the service, food, or both are below par.
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Old 1st Jun 2017, 23:00
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Don't know if it is true but I was told many years ago that a tip was an acronym for To Improve Promptitude (of service). If we get poor service surely there is no need to pay the extra fee.
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Old 2nd Jun 2017, 01:03
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Originally Posted by Rosevidney1 View Post
Don't know if it is true but I was told many years ago that a tip was an acronym for To Improve Promptitude (of service). If we get poor service surely there is no need to pay the extra fee.
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Old 2nd Jun 2017, 03:26
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The entire concept of tipping as now encountered is tainted and is seldom invoked for its supposed, original purpose; to show gratitude for, or to provide incentive for EXEMPLARY individual service.
Seldom does exemplary service, or even adequate service, come into the equation.

More commonly it is used as:

a) a display of largess on the part of the customer - often obscenely so
b) a means by which someone who is being underpaid - also, often obscenely so - can achieve a living wage
Such tips (on the bill) are all too frequently just a means for the proprietor to augment his business income.

The systems with which I am most comfortable are those where the staff are paid an appropriate and adequate salary / wage in the first place (Japan, Australia, NZ).
Or where all tips (modest) go into a common pool and are divided equally between all staff, including the ones out the back who you never see.
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Old 2nd Jun 2017, 03:59
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........I remember being pursued down the street in Auckland NZ........
That used to be the case, but after the America's Cup race a few years ago was held in Auckland, with the attendant swarms of American visitors, things changed, ( i.e. they ruined it for us ) and a Govt. Minister is now suggesting that NZ'ers should include the tip as a matter of course, as per the USA. It is also Election year - could prove the end of a certain Ministers career ?

A Million years ago a colleague took a taxi in New York, when the flag-fall was 25c, and his final fare reached the grand total of 92c. He gave a dollar and got out, and the cabby threw 8c out of the window and said - "Here you are Bud, you obviously need this more than me"
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Old 2nd Jun 2017, 04:01
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Unless the service is putrid, I try to tip 20% to 30%. Only fair.

If the service is really bad, I'll write something like "try harder," or "bring a better attitude," or something like that on the bill.

I never take it out on the service staff if the food is bad. I'll still tip the wait staff, even if I've sent the food back and had it taken off my bill.

I don't understand what the big deal is here, talking about tipping.

Those of you suggesting it's a mechanism to pay staff less are right, but the change needs to come from the top down instead of the bottom up.
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Old 2nd Jun 2017, 07:01
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There was a thread on tipping a while ago in which the wife of a ppruner visited a hair dressers in America and was given envelopes to tip the shampooer, hairdresser and girl who brought the tea.

Another peeve of mine is the person who thinks he deserves a tip for opening taxi doors, a task I can easily perform for myself.

I would rather pay an all inclusive price at an establishment which pays its staff properly and doesn't expect me to make up their wages for them.
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