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Old 16th Feb 2017, 11:10   #1 (permalink)
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Disruptive passengers on Tel Aviv - Luton flight, 15 Feb 17

Police removed a group of ten passengers from an aircraft after it had landed at Luton on a flight from Tel Aviv. Said passengers had refused to obey instructions from cabin crew during the flight.

Group of Orthodox Jews removed from flight for refusing to sit with women | Metro News
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Old 16th Feb 2017, 11:34   #2 (permalink)
 
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Copy and paste from that article:

"[...] This was due to a small group of passengers behaving disruptively, by not complying with the captain and cabin crew’s request to take their seats, both prior to departure from Tel Aviv and during the flight."

So the flight crew must have been somewhat tolerant very early on.
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Old 16th Feb 2017, 11:57   #3 (permalink)
 
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They should treat such passengers as Jet 2 do.
Zero tolerance and ban them from from future flights.

The crew should have called the local TLV police and off loaded them.

If they had a problem on seating they should have pre booked their seats but hey that would have cost them more money and there in lies the problem with such people.
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Old 16th Feb 2017, 13:51   #4 (permalink)
 
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Anything going through from TLV to NYC was dreaded by our CC.
The normal Israelis were fine and, I think, considered the unco-guid orthodox as a little cross they had to bear.
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Old 16th Feb 2017, 14:06   #5 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
"[...] This was due to a small group of passengers behaving disruptively, by not complying with the captain and cabin crew’s request to take their seats, both prior to departure from Tel Aviv and during the flight."
Makes you wonder why they weren't removed in Tel Aviv in the first place.
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Old 16th Feb 2017, 14:33   #6 (permalink)
 
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The normal Israelis were fine and, I think, considered the unco-guid orthodox as a little cross they had to bear.
I have to say that this is one of the most brilliant pieces of internet trolling I've ever seen.
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Old 16th Feb 2017, 16:29   #7 (permalink)
 
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The flight is absolutely on limits and any delay in TLV risks unwelcome extension into discretion. It is also widely believed that police there will not be much help if called and may even cause further delays. The last place anyone wants to get stuck is TLV though it is probably not as utterly appalling as some of it's passengers make it seem. The behaviour of some black hatters is shocking beyond belief (asking female cc out loud if they are menstruating for instance, or simply ignoring them altogether - blanking as though they were not there, refusing to open window blinds on t/o - don't ask).

As reported the situation might well have required an offload at TLV, and the inflight behaviour would have had me very seriously contemplating a diversion into Albania and dump them there.

How this did not result in prosecutions Heaven alone knows. It sounds like it should have done, but the delay in getting home after a long day if crew are required to make statements puts some off this course of action too.

Sounds far, far too tolerant an approach to me.
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Old 16th Feb 2017, 16:33   #8 (permalink)

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Will always remember the TLV flights. Nightmare and the pax took everything that was not screwed down to the fuselage.
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Old 16th Feb 2017, 16:39   #9 (permalink)
 
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Whilst I can't condone the behaviour of the individuals concerned, I am pretty horrified at the freely used, offensive and pejorative phrases herein.
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Old 16th Feb 2017, 16:52   #10 (permalink)
 
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This is not the first time that a posting has been made about disruptive orthodox Jewish passengers and their problems with what they seem to consider baby making devices.
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Old 16th Feb 2017, 17:13   #11 (permalink)
 
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Would medieval retards be more fitting...?
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Old 16th Feb 2017, 17:15   #12 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
I am pretty horrified at the freely used, offensive and pejorative phrases herein.
Still searching the thread for the aforementioned "pejorative phrases. Gizza clue, someone!
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Old 16th Feb 2017, 17:32   #13 (permalink)
 
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I can tell you that 99% of the Jewish population of the world finds these events appalling and a slur on us all.

From a strict Jewish law perspective, sitting next to a woman who is not your wife or other close family member is not forbidden; it is merely an additional strictness which is unnecessary if it were to cause discomfort to others.

I know many ultra orthodox Jews are model passengers and I remember a flight from TLV - MAN where one Rabbi from Manchester was wandering up and down the plane, glad-handing everyone like he was a rock star. Another Rabbi, more senior in position and age simply sat at back and read from a religious text. He even declined the opportunity to pray, when that was offered during an appropriate time of the flight, saying it was a disturbance to the crew and fellow passengers. He went up significantly in my estimation.

I have also given a few of these characters a piece of my mind, but it goes in one ear and out the other. They simply do not see that they increase anti-semitism. I would have thrown them off the flight - over Bulgaria.
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Old 16th Feb 2017, 17:37   #14 (permalink)
 
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To be honest, Tel Aviv flights are always difficult and very much dreaded, mostly by the cabin crew, flightdeck crews are happy about the door on those flights. It might not be politically correct, but the descriptions above are pretty much the same experiences we have made over the years.
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Old 16th Feb 2017, 17:37   #15 (permalink)
 
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@KelvinD
Clue for the clueless:

Quote:
If they had a problem on seating they should have pre booked their seats but hey that would have cost them more money and there in lies the problem with such people.
(From fourth post from the top.)

Last edited by 5000 metres; 16th Feb 2017 at 19:54.
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Old 16th Feb 2017, 19:30   #16 (permalink)
 
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Blind Squirrel...

Quote:
I have to say that this is one of the most brilliant pieces of internet trolling I've ever seen.
Nope. Not trolling at all, it's called reality.

I used to operate these flights and it was a common occurrence for many of the PAX to apologise on behalf of the minority Ultra Orthodox problem PAX.
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Old 17th Feb 2017, 00:01   #18 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Espada III View Post
I can tell you that 99% of the Jewish population of the world finds these events appalling and a slur on us all.

From a strict Jewish law perspective, sitting next to a woman who is not your wife or other close family member is not forbidden; it is merely an additional strictness which is unnecessary if it were to cause discomfort to others.

I know many ultra orthodox Jews are model passengers and I remember a flight from TLV - MAN where one Rabbi from Manchester was wandering up and down the plane, glad-handing everyone like he was a rock star. Another Rabbi, more senior in position and age simply sat at back and read from a religious text. He even declined the opportunity to pray, when that was offered during an appropriate time of the flight, saying it was a disturbance to the crew and fellow passengers. He went up significantly in my estimation.

I have also given a few of these characters a piece of my mind, but it goes in one ear and out the other. They simply do not see that they increase anti-semitism. I would have thrown them off the flight - over Bulgaria.
Thank you, Espada III; as you will be well aware we get it from other religious 'unco guid' too.
In Scotland we have the 'Wee Frees', an offshoot from my lot, from whom I've managed to steer clear
Never had any difficulty being a 'Shabbat Goy' if requested. (Is that the correct term?) I can understand the kindness of giving people a day off but, as an outsider, I can't help feeling that it gets taken a little too far.

p.s. Re the url links posted by Avenger, we were always aware that El Al didn't stand for any nonsense.
Oh, yes, and they did security profiling - shocking!
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Old 17th Feb 2017, 00:06   #19 (permalink)
 
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Couldn't they just put plastic bags around themselves?



I think they'd look totally rockstar with an orange EZY gash bag tied around them.
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Old 17th Feb 2017, 00:36   #20 (permalink)
 
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Sorry, but unless there are some other details not yet reported, the only significant outcome for these guys was priority disembarkation. No diversion, no offload, no charges and no turn-around at immigration (though they may have been British citizens).
Try wandering up the front and plugging your cell phone into the services control panel on your next flight to NYC and see how you get on.
It is no wonder that they like to fly Easy.
The captain and crew must have the ability to use those tools to both control behaviour on board and to discourage future such events.
At the very least it might discourage these people (yes, "these people". That's how the English language works) from booking on your airline in future.


To paraphrase, "the behaviour that you walk past" is the standard that you accept.
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