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Brexit: The telephone box hampsterwheel

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Brexit: The telephone box hampsterwheel

Old 17th Aug 2017, 11:51
  #16201 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Perhaps you should have said "will become an external..."
I thought that after I'd pressed the submit button, but i was too idle to edit it
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 12:01
  #16202 (permalink)  
 
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As the sign in the shop says, "If you break it, you've bought it."

If the UK wants to retain its reputation for being a responsible neighbour and international working partner, it's down to us to own and solve the problem we have created.

Just walking away and leaving Ireland in a mess is not a good way to create new relationships with the EU and the rest of the world.

But that's OK of course, because we voted for Brexit innit?
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 12:15
  #16203 (permalink)  
 
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Some of us would say that we haven't created the problem with the Irish border. The EU has. It has interfered with the historic relationship between the UK and RoI and continues to do so just to make mischief with the mischief-maker-in-chief being Verhofstadt.

Ireland should leave the EU as well. Problem fixed.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 12:28
  #16204 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Sorry, how hard is it to understand!!! The UK has offered a proposal (again) that suits the UK but takes no account of the realities of the situation.

To repeat - in large font in case of any eye sight issues:-

The EU external borders have to be secure. The Irish border with the UK is an external EU border
I will just type it in normal font but how hard it to understand the word compromise?

The UK have offered a solution now its up to the EU to decide if that solution works.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 13:16
  #16205 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
I will just type it in normal font but how hard it to understand the word compromise?

The UK have offered a solution now its up to the EU to decide if that solution works.
The problem is that it's difficult to compromise over international borders, and like it or like it not, the EU, with whom the UK is negotiating would view it's external border more important that the Irish / UK border, and although the risk of undesirables seeping into the EU through the UK are very much smaller than were the border to be with, say Turkey, it's an external border nonetheless.

The "Irish question" may be, as it was in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, an almost insurmountable one. The most obvious solution, although impractical, would be to hold referenda on both sides of the border, asking Ulster people if they'd like to remain in the EU and join the Irish Republic; and the Irish people if they would be prepared for Northern Ireland to join them. The results on both sides could be interesting, and not necessarily helpful were the questions asked.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 13:32
  #16206 (permalink)  
 
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Or we could just all sit back and wait while those tasked with resolving these things make their decisions.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 13:42
  #16207 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
Or we could just all sit back and wait while those tasked with resolving these things make their decisions.
Of course we could..it takes a certain amount of blind faith when those tasked, lets take Davis for example, who, 24 hrs after the article in the Telegraph by messrs Hammond and Fox, duly contradicted everything they said.

You may have unswerving confidence in their ability however....
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 14:11
  #16208 (permalink)  
 
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Yes sit back and wait for the inevitable which will be five years FOM on
A five year contract basis in the single market and customs union

That will push the problem down the road while this conservative government sort themselves out and actually formulate some brexit policies

Brexit blamed for 260 job losses as UK food supplier Southern Salads collapses into administration - The Independent
https://apple.news/APhZrwj8bQ0WMbe0LBIG0uQ

There are 3000 small companies eu dependent expect many more if we carry on with this brexit charade
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 14:23
  #16209 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Sorry, how hard is it to understand!!! The UK has offered a proposal (again) that suits the UK but takes no account of the realities of the situation.

To repeat - in large font in case of any eye sight issues:-

The EU external borders have to be secure. The Irish border with the UK is an external EU border
It will be an external border for the EU - therefore if the EU want to secure that border then thats up to them.

Securing the borders of the EU is not a responsibility for an independent UK.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 14:23
  #16210 (permalink)  
 
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Europe's economic recovery is accelerating - The Economist
https://apple.news/ABYh4bEFHTp-5Oj-6iEwTOw

Tesco app

You are putting a lot on the EU collapsing ?
Today's news
I would be more worried about us collapsing not the EU
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 14:29
  #16211 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jet II View Post
It will be an external border for the EU - therefore if the EU want to secure that border then thats up to them.

Securing the borders of the EU is not a responsibility for an independent UK.
Your first statement is totally correct.

However if the EU decides, as if it's serious in securing it's external border it should do, that there has to be a hard border, it matter not one jot whether the UK reciprocates, since delays and checks going either way (into or out of the EU) would cause disruption.

However the harm has been done, the UK voted to leave, we have made our bed and now we must sleep in it - unless of course the government decides to change the bed.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 14:39
  #16212 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pace View Post
Europe's economic recovery is accelerating - The Economist
https://apple.news/ABYh4bEFHTp-5Oj-6iEwTOw

Tesco app

You are putting a lot on the EU collapsing ?
Today's news
I would be more worried about us collapsing not the EU
That of course is the Brexiters' dream - if we are going down then at least we will drag the EU down with us. It will all be worth it to destroy the hated enemy.
So sad.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 14:41
  #16213 (permalink)  
 
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If the EU places such great importance on maintaining secure external borders, why is it so easy for migrants to get into Greece and Italy?

They are making an issue of the Irish border simply to cause trouble.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 14:48
  #16214 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Your first statement is totally correct.

However if the EU decides, as if it's serious in securing it's external border it should do, that there has to be a hard border, it matter not one jot whether the UK reciprocates, since delays and checks going either way (into or out of the EU) would cause disruption.

However the harm has been done, the UK voted to leave, we have made our bed and now we must sleep in it - unless of course the government decides to change the bed.
Again - if the EU wants to station Border Guards along the 300 miles between Eire and NI thats up to them. The whole point of Brexit is that we remove ourselves from any decision making in the EU.

The UK Government position is clear - they want an open Border as has been in existance since 1922, but they cannot force this on anyone else.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 15:27
  #16215 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jet II View Post
Again - if the EU wants to station Border Guards along the 300 miles between Eire and NI thats up to them. The whole point of Brexit is that we remove ourselves from any decision making in the EU.

The UK Government position is clear - they want an open Border as has been in existance since 1922, but they cannot force this on anyone else.
That's right; but what I was saying is that we (the UK electorate) have caused this potentially very serious situation and could, unwittingly have precipitated a return to "the troubles" (civil war to anyone else) on the island of Ireland.

I know many will want to blame the EU, but if the British electorate hadn't taken leave of their senses - or actually been made aware of the dilemmas that a leave vote could cause they may have thought twice. But they weren't, and they didn't.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 15:30
  #16216 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
That's right; but what I was saying is that we (the UK electorate) have caused this potentially very serious situation and could, unwittingly have precipitated a return to "the troubles" (civil war to anyone else) on the island of Ireland.

I know many will want to blame the EU, but if the British electorate hadn't taken leave of their senses - or actually been made aware of the dilemmas that a leave vote could cause they may have thought twice. But they weren't, and they didn't.
I dont think the violence ended in NI due to the UK being in the EU. More to do with the IRA being penetrated by the UK security services and their paymasters in the US falling out of love with terrorism after 9/11.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 16:33
  #16217 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jet II View Post
I dont think the violence ended in NI due to the UK being in the EU. More to do with the IRA being penetrated by the UK security services and their paymasters in the US falling out of love with terrorism after 9/11.
Thread drift, but in addition to the undoubted success of the UK security services, the reason for the cessation of hostilities was some far sighted politicking by first John Major (who seldom gets the credit he surely deserves) and then Tony Blair, along with the Irish government and some pretty courageous decisions by Paisley, McGuinness and co.

The Good Friday agreement resulted, but in a society which is still horribly tribal, especially among the more disadvantaged sections of the population, it's amazing how small things that change the dynamic can result in bad consequences.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 16:51
  #16218 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
I know many will want to blame the EU, but if the British electorate hadn't taken leave of their senses - or actually been made aware of the dilemmas that a leave vote could cause they may have thought twice.
Excuse me, but the Irish border problem was certainly mentioned.
It was dismissed then as being part of 'project fear', and now it has come to pass it is being dismissed as an EU problem.
It's way all the Brexit issues will be answered - "Nothing to do with us mate, it's all the fault of those beastly EU bosses who won't let us have it our way."
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 17:48
  #16219 (permalink)  
 
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Surely a sovereign nation has the right to defend or open its borders in any way it sees fit. If an independent UK passes legislation guaranteeing the free movement of people across the border between Eire and Northern Ireland, but the EU decides that a hard border control must be exercised, then the problem will exist in Eire and with the EU, not within the UK. The UK government has already stated that they have no wish to impose any further controls on cross border movements than those that already exist.

Everything that transpires from this point onwards is completely in the hands of and the responsibility of the EU.

As an independent nation it is not our responsibility to sort out EU border policy or enforcement.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 17:58
  #16220 (permalink)  
 
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even with the bargain basement pound our sales to non EU countries in the rest of the world have gone down
They are nearly always down in June. They are up compared to June 2016 and 2015.

UK industry tends still to this day run fare fortnights when they shut down during the summer and do heavy maint. Parts of the country do it at different dates so it staggers the numbers of holiday makers at any one time.

As for the pound yes that agrees with my predictions what's going to happen. And the pound is extremely undervalued at the moment which is why I am sitting waiting to transfer a load over when default exit happens after that and thee uncertainty is gone then it will come up to a more sensible level I reckon about 1.3.

But we shall see.

As I keep on saying its not the UK per say you need to worry about. Its the EU which is hell bent on a default exit and as much pain as possible. If the other side are going to say NO to everything what ever is suggested then there is not a lot any negotiating team can do.
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