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Old 22nd Mar 2017, 22:04   #10781 (permalink)
 
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Slightly more even handed reporting of the Barnier speech:

EU Brexit negotiator warns of dire scenario for UK if talks fail ? POLITICO
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Old 22nd Mar 2017, 22:16   #10782 (permalink)
 
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SFFP

Depends how bitter the divorce is
I know one couple who were totally reasonable had two kids and just decided not to be married anymore
Both didn't go for blood and put the family unit first
Got on so well they even spend days out with the kids together but it took a lot of understanding, compromise and reduced expectations

Of course we all know of the high profile divorces where the couple hate each other's guts fight in the courts for every penny, are totally unreasonable! Pay huge legal bills, deceive each other and have grossly over blown expectations

No one wins everyone looses! He is an evil monster she is an angel ? In his eyes he was a wonderful husband! she a slut and a evil woman
Sadly neither is right and at one time they stared lovingly into each other's eyes

Which will it be ? Probably version 2 (((

Engineer to be honest the EU comments were very reasonable and quite sad with a genuine opinion brexit is a mistake

Quote:
He added, “The United Kingdom would be seriously affected by this situation: Two-thirds of its trade is currently framed and protected by the single market and the free-trade agreements concluded by the European Union with more than 60 partner states.”

Last edited by Pace; 22nd Mar 2017 at 22:37.
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Old 22nd Mar 2017, 22:35   #10783 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
Doesn't work like that in a divorce settlement, just saying
No, it doesn't.
But then this isn't a divorce, or anything like one.
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Old 22nd Mar 2017, 22:57   #10784 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
No, it doesn't.
But then this isn't a divorce, or anything like one.
Really, let's wait and see
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Old 22nd Mar 2017, 22:59   #10785 (permalink)
 
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Pace

We are leaving the EU, not hard, not soft, not cushioned, just out.

There will be some sort of a trade deal, not good, not bad, not even middling, just a mechanism to ensure goods continue to pass between the EU and UK.

That is all there is to it.

Whatever arrangements are arrived at, you personally and a couple of other contributors will hate it because that has been your entrenched view right from the start. For the rest of us, we will just get on with our lives and adapt as necessary. The millions who chose not to vote at all in the referendum were obviously convinced that either way, the result would not affect them in the slightest.

Wait - You didn't exercise your right to vote?!
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Old 22nd Mar 2017, 23:09   #10786 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Wait - You didn't exercise your right to vote?!
Gouli I have actually been very consistent in my criticism of the EU! My support for a brexit which purely rectified the unnaceptable of the EU no more no less and my total dislike at the way this brexit had been going
Surely a more commendable situation than one person who supported remain, wrote in depth articles on the benefits of the single market and EU immigration who then overnight flipped 100% the other way purely for a job opportunity ?

But hey that person is your champion and can do no wrong ? And is obviously a conviction politician.
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Old 22nd Mar 2017, 23:15   #10787 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
Really, let's wait and see
Well you won't have to wait much longer
If a marriage has a 'pre-nup' then it would be used in divorce.
The EU's pre-nup is the Treaty of Rome. Is there anything in Article 50 about getting your payments back?
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Old 22nd Mar 2017, 23:25   #10788 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pace View Post
Don't worry this thread is getting past its sell by date for me
[...] and I won't post in this thread again
Timed at 19:35.

Didn't last long, another post at 21:16 and then another at 22:09
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Old 22nd Mar 2017, 23:59   #10789 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Well you won't have to wait much longer
If a marriage has a 'pre-nup' then it would be used in divorce.
The EU's pre-nup is the Treaty of Rome. Is there anything in Article 50 about getting your payments back?
Ia there anything in there saying you must pay to leave? The answer of course is no as the legal teams have established. so all to play for
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 00:21   #10790 (permalink)
 
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MFCFly

What are you on about ? Was art 50 enacted at 1935 today ? I thought it was on the 29 th Merch ? Maybe it's not being enacted march 29 ?
Read my post again
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 01:16   #10791 (permalink)
 
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Pace

The deal you wanted between the UK and the EU wasn't up for negotiation. David Cameron asked and the EU point blank refused. That is the whole reason why we had the referendum and why we are leaving. The intransigence of the EU bureaucracy is to blame due to their utter refusal to discuss alternative arrangements for the UK. We tried to change the system from within. That didn't work and it is quite clear that such an arrangement would run against the principle of greater European unity. Even after the referendum result was announced together with a delay in enacting Article 50, the EU has failed to take any positive steps to try to retain our membership by, for example, opening emergency negotiations. So our only alternative is to leave. Every single thing that you are complaining about, apart from Theresa May, is within the gift of the EU. The UK has been met from day one with a refusal to compromise by the EU. Even the offer, by the UK, of completely tariff free trade between the EU and UK has been met with derision or outright refusal.

The UK economy may slump a bit or flourish somewhat as we leave the EU, but it won't fall off a cliff. Like the banks, we as a country, are simply too big to be allowed to fail. A failure of the UK economy would drag down half the world with it and severely damage Germany and France. China, the USA, India and Japan would be net beneficiaries of such a collapse, but the damage to wordwide trade would damage their economies too. So we are not facing doomsday whatever your predictions or the Guardian may say.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 01:37   #10792 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pace View Post
MFCFly

What are you on about ? Was art 50 enacted at 1935 today ? I thought it was on the 29 th Merch ? Maybe it's not being enacted march 29 ?
Read my post again
I read your post, my bad if I didn't understand it, but come on, it was poorly written
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 06:48   #10793 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
There will be some sort of a trade deal, not good, not bad, not even middling, just a mechanism to ensure goods continue to pass between the EU and UK.

Trade deals are nice to have but we can trade without them, just as we do with most of the world already.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 07:53   #10794 (permalink)
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When you think about Germany as a Country just after the WW2, it was rebuilt by the Marshall Plan, with GB in the early fifties we now learn wrote of 50% of what was allegedly owed in War reparation , but then scoot forward about 30 years ish, and Germany was at it again by taking and rebuilding almost the entire infrastructure of the Old Commie part of East Germany..er with EU funds, ..No wonder the so called original members of the Early Common Market dont want a Brexit by the UK ..one of their best performing cash Cows is leaving the paddock..

Pity the Germans never paid properly to France, Belgium, Holland, Italy or Greece..especially Greece......what happened to the looted forced loan of hundreds of tonnes of Gold the Storm troopers took back to good old Uncle Adolph,...seems the Frau and others such as the likeable Herr Junkers have had memory fade on that little exercise in self help..
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 08:01   #10795 (permalink)
 
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There you go:

Brexit vote: Single market benefit 'largely imaginary' - BBC News
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 08:49   #10796 (permalink)
 
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Re the "who pays what" discussion; there was mention on TV recently (it could have been on the Andrew Marr show) that various think tanks have concluded there could actually be payments due to the UK, using the same logic as the "huge bill for UK" threats.
It's a pity politicians across the whole of Europe (including UK) can't act like grown ups.
"I am leaving"
"OK, close the door behind you please".
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 09:49   #10797 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Courtney View Post
.......What does freedom of movement have to do with trade?...........
RobC et al

I think, but stand ready to be corrected, that the EU links FoM into 'free trade' through its definition of what constitutes a service. Whilst we tend to think of services as things like banking, finance, consultancy etc, the EU has a very broad definition:namely, a. activities of an industrial character;b.activities of a commercial character;c. activities of craftsmen;d. activities of the professions.

The potential conflict with controls on FoM comes in that some of these activities can be done without 'leaving home' eg Batco's French-English/English-French document translation service. Whereas others can only be performed 'on-site' eg Batco's nephew's craft painting and decorating service. For international free trade in this latter service, FoM is required.

I think there is a solution for inclusion of services in any future UK-EU FTA by agreeing a definition of services for the prupose of that FTA as being services that do not require cross-border movement of personnel (goodnews for Batco's translation service!), with some one-offs/controlled-trade for other areas such as the transport industry (including airlines) and, entertainments eg the ABBA reunion/farewell tour.

That said, Eng(R)'s link suggests that the effect of services in the debate has been overstated and that the EU so-called single market in services is pretty well stunted at birth. Also, BBC WS was of the view that most of our financial services business with EU is conducted under 'passporting' and 'equivalence' which are not a function of the sm, but a rats nest of inter-government agreements (ie grudging concessions one might say) albeit ultimately referable to the CJEU. BBC WS also added that EU emphasises goods and agriculture in its FTA with other parties because that favours Germany and France, at the expense of services, which favours UK. Possible sources of this bias are 1. lack of UK influence in EU trade negotiations, and/or 2. lack of UK influence over EU's definition of services.

Regards
Batco

Last edited by BATCO; 23rd Mar 2017 at 16:35.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 10:17   #10798 (permalink)
 
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Engineer

What's that link? the BBC showing their unbiase by printing innacurate right wing propaganda

Quote:
Civitas or The Institute for the Study of Civil Society is a London based right-wing think-tank which until 2000 was the Health and Welfare Unit of the Institute of Economic Affairs. In a March 2009 presentation Tim Montgomerie and Matthew Elliott described Civitas as part of the infrastructure of the conservative movement in Britain.[1]
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 10:38   #10799 (permalink)
 
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Well, they peddle plenty of false left-wing propaganda, don't they?
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 12:02   #10800 (permalink)
 
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Wingswinger

I totally agree with you
First we had project fear and now project fake
Media news we all know which support remain and which leave
What in other opinions is the most unbiased news source ? Which paper ?
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