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Brexit: The telephone box hampsterwheel

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Brexit: The telephone box hampsterwheel

Old 13th Dec 2016, 09:54
  #5501 (permalink)  
 
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Swiss parliament overrules référendum results. Swiss parliament reaches agreement on EU immigration - The Local

Sanity prevails, as does the free movement of people.
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 10:11
  #5502 (permalink)  
 
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Cost of Christmas rises with Brexit expected to hit inflation - Sky News
https://apple.news/AQk5LpMISSfKmMMqtycY3pg
And some here say Brexit isn't costing ?

Nip some might consider May and her band of 60 an Elite in our own mini EU
As for my posting this is from Brussels where I am with the jet
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 10:13
  #5503 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ExXB View Post
Swiss parliament overrules référendum results. Swiss parliament reaches agreement on EU immigration - The Local

Sanity prevails, as does the free movement of people.
And to some extent I think this will be the eventual outcome for UK too; essentially remaining a member of the single market and customs union, with some sort of fudge on free movement but to comply with the wishes of the 52% no longer a member of the EU.

Again, how the electorate would react to such an outcome in the 2020 election is anyone's guess.
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 10:16
  #5504 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pace View Post
And some here say Brexit isn't costing ?

Nip some might consider May and her band of 60 an Elite in our own mini EU
As for my posting this is from Brussels where I am with the jet
Yet by other statistical calculations, this is going to be the "cheapest Christmas ever". Regrettably you can pick and choose statistics to suit your own favoured narrative.

It's a bit like newspapers - you read the one you believe and dismiss the ones you don't.
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 11:45
  #5505 (permalink)  
 
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And to some extent I think this will be the eventual outcome for UK too; essentially remaining a member of the single market and customs union, with some sort of fudge on free movement but to comply with the wishes of the 52% no longer a member of the EU.

Again, how the electorate would react to such an outcome in the 2020 election is anyone's guess.
I would expect UKIP to make huge gains and any MP who voted for such a fudge would be out of office as this in no way complies with the wishes of the 52%
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 12:21
  #5506 (permalink)  
 
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RC

You think with the hat of a committed brexiteer so with your vision you would be angry and aggrieved
You have to remember two things
Firstly any referendum or election is a snapshot in time
People are fluid not static so can change their ipinion especially if it starts hurting their pockets or the promised land doesn't stack up to what they imagined

Secondly as in elections where some will always vote labour or conservative even if Mickey Mouse was leading the party they are carried by the floating voters
These people are undecided and purely by that not likely to be strong in their views
They are likely to be the first to flip the other way if the promised land isn't cutting it

So yes there would be anger but from a fairly small section of leave voters
The remain and soft voters who in fact make the majority wouldn't care a damn

Sorry but the will of the people is a big a con the Conservative Trojan horse to force through their will not the will of the majority of people
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 12:35
  #5507 (permalink)  
 
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See. If it's good it can't be Brexit because Brexit hasn't happened or it would have happened anyway.

Reverse things and the opposite is true. If it's bad it's absolutely definitely because of Brexit. Nothing else can be to blame. Even though Brexit had not happened.

I see the anything-but-impartial BBC are running a show on Brexit. When they blame everything on Brexit or everything is 'despite Brexit' then what on earth else will they talk about.

Brexit is major. However it doesn't need 24/7 coverage. I'm surprised there isn't a Brexit channel yet!
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 12:40
  #5508 (permalink)  
 
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I think you should get out of your London bubble and see whats happening in the rest of the country Pace as you seem yo be unable to grasp that a majority in the UK voted to leave and if this is fudged then there will be a seismic shift in UK politics. Even committed remainers like Andy Burnham now appreciate this and that is why he has changed his opinion on membership of the single market because it was hindering his chances of the Manchester mayor job
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 13:56
  #5509 (permalink)  
 
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K&C

Sometimes my left leaning friend, you do say some curious things

"Still, as long as those carefully manicured lawns and neatly trimmed borders continue to impress the neighbours, life in Wisteria Avenue will be as halcyon as always. "

I think there are a good many in the country, including from the NW where a lot of very sensible people live, who think Wisteria Avenue is somewhere to go on the rob. People who voted LEAVE.
I can imagine how you would be received in somewhere like Toxteth if you said to the LEAVE voters that they had lawns and borders.....

Meanwhile, back in the real world of Warlingham in stockbroker belt, where whole teams of gardeners trim my lawn borders and bush (my wife employs our team of landscape gardeners ) any vote other than Tory is a wasted vote. Like casting your seed on stony ground (if you are familiar with the activity or expression). Some in Warlingham remember that according to one ex Tory chancellor, financial pain is to be welcomed. If it isn't hurting, it isn't working. And then to add insult if you believed that one, someone also said "we are all in this together".
Surely they weren't talking about EU membership ?
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 14:05
  #5510 (permalink)  
 
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Should parliament move to York

Could be worse.
Bit of Yorkshire common sense might put some sense into people.
Boycott ....he gets my vote.
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 14:18
  #5511 (permalink)  
 
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My post 4751

Seems I proposed the concept of EU citizenship. But at a cost of £500 pounds a year.
Wonder how many want to pay that out of their own pocket...when the country has previously been paying for them.
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 14:50
  #5512 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mrangryofwarlingham View Post
...when the country has previously been paying for them.
Out of taxpayers funds
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 15:10
  #5513 (permalink)  
 
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Funny old thing - Yorkshire, at 5.3m, has the same population as Scotland.
Only 5.3 million in all that land mass ? Plenty of room for immigrants then in the kilted lands )
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 15:34
  #5514 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mrangryofwarlingham View Post
Could be worse.
Bit of Yorkshire common sense might put some sense into people.
Boycott ....he gets my vote.
Or get rid of Parliament all together and rule by Cabal, endorsed & mandated by referenda?
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 16:02
  #5515 (permalink)  
 
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Did you vote?

Then you have a platform to speak from.

You didn't vote?
Then as Henry V once said....(allegedly) when the lords were complaining about the poor strength of the Brexit negotiation position, and the French were threatening to chop off fingers from the archers and impose import tariffs,

"Let he that has no fight for these Brexit negoatiations, let him depart, his EU passport will be made

He that outlives these negotiations, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam'd,
And rouse him at the name of Brexit.

He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say "To-morrow is Brexit day.

Then will he strip his sleeve and say he thought long and hard,
And say "I voted LEAVE on Brexit day."
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember, with advantages,
What feats the leavers did that day.

And gentlemen in England without a thought in their head
Shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That voted LEAVE upon Brexit day.
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 16:48
  #5516 (permalink)  
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I listen to all those saying how we should negotiate sensibly with the EU - put there is no middle ground on which to agree.....

ECJ should have jurisdiction over EU nationals living in post-Brexit UK

The European Commission is set to put forward proposals that include demanding that its citizens living in the UK after Brexit should continue to remain under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. The proposal was set out at a meeting between Michel Barnier, the chief European Commission negotiator for Brexit and officials from the 27 member states.

An EU diplomat familiar with the discussions, told The Telegraph: "The European Commission legal service was of the view that a political declaration on the rights of EU citizens in the UK would not be enough and that EU law must be available to EU citizens after Brexit, under the jurisdiction of the ECJ."

The newspaper said that the meeting "discussed at considerable length how the rights of the estimated three million EU citizens living in the UK should be protected after Brexit." There are concerns that while UK citizens living in Europe after Brexit will be entitled to rights under the EU law to third-country nationals, these may not be reciprocated by the UK.

In the meeting, a number of EU member states did question whether it was "realistic" to expect the UK to accept ECJ jurisdiction for member citizens living in the UK. The European Commission however had insisted that it was "paramount to protect EU law and the court's jurisdiction," The Telegraph said.

A leading EU law expert from the University of Essex, Professor Stephen Peers said given that Prime Minister Theresa May has already ruled out ECJ jurisdiction for the UK after it comes out of the EU, the EU's proposal was a "non-starter."

"It's inconsistent with the EU's usual approach to international treaties, since the EU rarely insists that non-EU countries sign up to ECJ jurisdiction. In particular, the EU didn't insist that Norway or Switzerland signed up to the ECJ, when those countries agreed on the free movement of people with the EU."........
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 17:01
  #5517 (permalink)  
 
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It's quite incredible

But I just found out my cat likes aloo gobi and chicken tikka
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 17:31
  #5518 (permalink)  
 
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PM says there will be no 'cliff edge' as Labour warns on hard Brexit - Sky News
https://apple.news/AVbSjWkS2Q0KwUnZT4-tefw

The shadow Brexit Secretary Sir Keir Starmer says Labour will fight any plan which "tears us apart from our EU partners".
Instead he is calling for a "new and strong relationship" with the other 27 countries within the EU.
Sir Keir says there will be no "blank cheque" for Mrs May if the Supreme Court confirms the ruling that MPs must be given a say before the triggering of Article 50, which will formally start the UK exit.
Labour, he says, will try to amend legislation unless Mrs May produces what he called a "meaningful plan".
In a major speech in London, Sir Keir set out his goal of making jobs, the economy and living standards Labour's priority in the "battle of our time".
And he accused Mrs May of failing to unite a country which has been deeply split by the Brexit vote.
"As we stand on the brink of profound change, it is clear that there are two versions of our future that could be negotiated," he said.
"The first is a future that tears us apart from our EU partners. Out of the single market. Out of the customs union.
"A global race to the bottom which would not only put our economy and jobs at risk, but which would also abandon our shared scientific, educational and cultural endeavours with the EU. A so-called 'hard' Brexit."
He says the second version of the future involves "a new and strong relationship with our EU partners based on the principles of co-operation, collaboration and mutual benefit."
The speech shifts the focus from opposition to the Brexit result itself to opposition to a "hard" Brexit.
A Conservative spokesman hit back, saying Labour was looking to "tie the Government's hands" with talk of second referendums behind closed doors - but that in truth Labour "just don't believe Britain can thrive outside the EU".
Meanwhile, the European Parliament's top Brexit negotiator, Guy Verhofstadt, says the UK vote to leave the EU contributed to "a very difficult year" for the EU - and called on the European Council to come up with "strong conclusions" on the way forward.
"A global race to the bottom which would not only put our economy and jobs at risk, but which would also abandon our shared scientific, educational and cultural endeavours with the EU. A so-called 'hard' Brexit."
He says the second version of the future involves "a new and strong relationship with our EU partners based on the principles of co-operation, collaboration and mutual benefit."
The speech shifts the focus from opposition to the Brexit result itself to opposition to a "hard" Brexit.

Last edited by Pace; 13th Dec 2016 at 18:25.
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 17:33
  #5519 (permalink)  
 
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Sounds like an opening position to me. Something easy to concede on to score points.

ECJ rulings on Regulation 261 do not apply in Switzerland, much to the chagrin of the bottom feeding claims agents.
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 20:00
  #5520 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like the remainers are getting a wee bit desperate.

Ben Bradshaw says Russian hackers 'probably' fixed the EU referendum vote for Brexit | Daily Mail Online
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