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Brexit: The telephone box hampsterwheel

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Brexit: The telephone box hampsterwheel

Old 8th Dec 2016, 12:05
  #5301 (permalink)  
 
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"Yesterday's vote was not binding". My darling nothing is binding these days unless it's what the Remainers or populist lefty media wants.
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Old 8th Dec 2016, 12:18
  #5303 (permalink)  
 
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This kind of thing:

EU unveils new 300m 'Space Egg' HQ ? the 'Europa' in Brussels

Is precisely why so many voted Leave.
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Old 8th Dec 2016, 12:40
  #5304 (permalink)  
 
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They're creating huge new towns miles from anywhere and grossly over priced. Still, no problem selling them.

Housing is booming up here. We have all the space we can dream of yet they're now trying to sell us 'studio apartments' (bedsits in my day) close to town at crazy prices. They don't have issues filling them.
Sounds like they are underpriced if anything.
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Old 8th Dec 2016, 12:43
  #5305 (permalink)  
 
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"Yesterday's vote was not binding". My darling nothing is binding these days unless it's what the Remainers or populist lefty media wants.
Hearty its not binding on the Government or Parliament its was just a statement of intention.
If they see the governments approach on Brexit and they like it then they will support end of March
If it says sod off EU then they wont support the Government

The Supreme court will be binding so if its positive towards Parliament then that means Parliament will be able to dictate the content of the Brexit negotiation plans with the EU and what is acceptable or not

If the Government win then they will enact without Government approval on content
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Old 8th Dec 2016, 12:56
  #5306 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pace View Post

The Supreme court will be binding so if its positive towards Parliament then that means Parliament will be able to dictate the content of the Brexit negotiation plans with the EU and what is acceptable or not
WHAT!!!

That's completely the opposite of what's written in all the relevant EU articles!

No country that opts to invoke Article 50 can dictate the terms under which they leave. All the control, technically, rests with the remaining 27 states and what they collectively decide to allow. They could act unwisely and just allow us to leave with no deals at all, not even allow us to trade with them, if they wished.

The EU would be foolish to do such a thing, and some EU countries that are very highly dependent on exports to the UK (like the RoI for example) would not be at all happy if a "no trade with the UK" deal was put forward, but technically it is possible for the EU to do this if the wish, and we cannot stop them, or even have a say in their negotiations over it.
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Old 8th Dec 2016, 12:57
  #5307 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pace View Post
Hearty its not binding on the Government or Parliament its was just a statement of intention.
If they see the governments approach on Brexit and they like it then they will support end of March
If it says sod off EU then they wont support the Government

The Supreme court will be binding so if its positive towards Parliament then that means Parliament will be able to dictate the content of the Brexit negotiation plans with the EU and what is acceptable or not

If the Government win then they will enact without Government approval on content
It was quite a shrewd move though. It has committed Paliament to supporting Art 50 enactment in March next year assuming the Government have provided "enough" detail on an approach.

I think you can rest assured that they will present something that the house can support. The unfortunate thing that those who are attempting to frustrate Brexit appear to forget is that there are two parties involved here, us and the EU. Nothing really means anything until we sit down and begin to negotiate. We can say what we like as an approach and it makes no difference until we begin talking.

In my view the vote has made triggering Art 50 more rather than less likely, whereas last week I felt it was likely to never happen. Once triggered the balance of power in the intra UK negotiation (by which I mean the UK Parliamentary process) will be in the Government's hands, because once that clock is ticking there are only two possible outcomes - A deal or no deal, but either way we're out.
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Old 8th Dec 2016, 13:13
  #5308 (permalink)  
 
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It was quite a shrewd move though. It has committed Paliament to supporting Art 50 enactment in March next year assuming the Government have provided "enough" detail on an approach.
For a devout remain Supporter like Anna Soubry to support it ?
It was added by the government to stave off a humiliating defeat which on their calculations would have lost the vote by 20 so yes a clever move to stop that humiliation
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Old 8th Dec 2016, 13:14
  #5309 (permalink)  
 
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I don't think we are out until we are out. For a start we want to veto an EU army and we cannot do that from the outside

if in Jan 2018 we have another 2m unemployed and the pound is worth USD 1 then, no PM of whatever hue or sex and no matter what the Dr Goebbels resurrection society in the media say , there will be another referendum.

Extreme I know but there does seem to be this rather odd view that a negotiation will always make things better. For example with our special relationship cousins saying any new trade agreements will be more in favour of the USA than existing ones means that any deal with the states will be worse than we have now.

Also e apparently do not have any experienced trade negotiators as they havent been needed for the past 40 odd years and their parliamenatry track record doesn't suggest Messrs Davis and Fox will be any better at this than other things they have been involved with
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Old 8th Dec 2016, 13:14
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I don't know if anyone's has noticed or if it's just me but I sense somewhat of a softening from the remainiacs.

Beforehand we were constantly branded and identity politics played a huge part of Brexit. Now people are saying things like 'I voted remain, and I respect the opinion of those who voted leave......'. I heard it on the radio just now in the car, I've noticed it on social media.

Either they have realised that preaching inclusivity whilst ailienating 17.4million people is somewhat hypocritical, they've resided themselves to the fact that Brexit will happen or they've actually realised that brexiteers being racist has been debunked.
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Old 8th Dec 2016, 13:21
  #5311 (permalink)  
 
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HeartyMeatballs

The best speech in Parliament Yesterday was by an MP who said that this wasn't about giving the 52% who voted leave what they wanted while ignoring the wishes of the 48% who voted remain.
Any Government who do that are playing a very dangerous game.
While remainers maybe accepting that Brexit will happen what are the government doing for the other 48% who want a close relationship with Europe

As I have stated a Government who cared about all the people would take us out but would compromise on market access even if it means negotiating a Style of freedom of movement

The EU are our biggest customers and hence the biggest chunk of immigration should be from the EU making cuts elsewhere
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Old 8th Dec 2016, 13:29
  #5312 (permalink)  
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Hmmm, thread title has been revised!
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Old 8th Dec 2016, 13:31
  #5313 (permalink)  
 
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Single market means no controls on immigration and therefore it's a no. It's the EU that says no single market, no controls. Therefore we must leave.

It's all well and good to say we need to respect the wishes of the 48 whilst for the last five months us 52 have been bullied, intimidated and branded.
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Old 8th Dec 2016, 13:34
  #5314 (permalink)  
 
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Latest BBCQT and would you believe it yet again it's one leaver vs the rest of the panel being Remainers. Nice and balanced as usual from the BBC.
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Old 8th Dec 2016, 13:37
  #5315 (permalink)  
 
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It's all well and good to say we need to respect the wishes of the 48 whilst for the last five months us 52 have been bullied, intimidated and branded.
Its the very opposite
Government have ignored the remainers tried their best to silence Parliament and are still trying. They have divided and caused hatred rather than listening to all sides and bringing about a brexit which will satisfy the wishes of the country not half
They have been lead by 60 hard brexit supporters in Government
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Old 8th Dec 2016, 13:41
  #5316 (permalink)  
 
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Brexit has not yet happened. Art50 has not been triggered. There is plenty of opportunity for the government to engage with the people to find out specifically what it is that the people want. Unfortunately the urbanistas with their court cases, fraudulent online petitions and constant challenge means that resource has to be used defending their case.

You claim 60 hard Brexit supporters in government caused it. Yet last nights result show that a vast majority of MPs will quite happily go along with it. If they were so vehemomtly opposed to Brexit and if they thought it was just a small faction of people hellbent on Brexit that why not signal their disapproval by voting against TM last night?
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Old 8th Dec 2016, 13:41
  #5317 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by HeartyMeatballs View Post
I don't know if anyone's has noticed or if it's just me but I sense somewhat of a softening from the remainiacs.
I agree. The game changed yesterday. The Supreme Court President was asking pithy questions about what would be the point of a further single clause Act if the Commons had already agreed a resolution to enact A50. And listening to Starmer and Kinnock during and after the debate, I believed for the first time their saying that they would not substantially impede the invoking of A50. The fight has gone from the Labour Party in the Commons. They have changed mindset from blocking to scrutinising. The Lords will be a hurdle though.
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Old 8th Dec 2016, 13:49
  #5318 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pace View Post
For a devout remain Supporter like Anna Soubry to support it ?
It was added by the government to stave off a humiliating defeat which on their calculations would have lost the vote by 20 so yes a clever move to stop that humiliation
That's politics for you.
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Old 8th Dec 2016, 14:40
  #5319 (permalink)  
 
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Despite Brexit:

McDonald's to move tax base to U.K.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...n-burger-giant

It could be great. All of the massive companies who channel their sales via Luxembourg could relocate.
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Old 8th Dec 2016, 15:09
  #5320 (permalink)  
 
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Busy on the scool run as would of loved to see the Governments come back this afternoon.

Does make me wonder if the result goes the governments way if May will instantly push the button.

Fingers crossed the learned 11 don't give Jimmy Kranky a say in all of this as that would scupper things.

Last edited by Seldomfitforpurpose; 8th Dec 2016 at 16:46.
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