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EU MEPs Repeatedly Blocked Terror Sharing Data

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EU MEPs Repeatedly Blocked Terror Sharing Data

Old 17th Apr 2016, 19:04
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EU MEPs Repeatedly Blocked Terror Sharing Data

After some 9 years of Left Wing MEPs obstructing it, the EU finally have been forced to agree to allow EU airlines to share details of passengers with law enforcement agencies.


The data known as Passenger Data Records is already in use in the UK and US and will assist law enforcement agencies in detecting terrorist movements, and drug and people trafficking. It also has the capability to identify suspicious travel patterns.
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Old 17th Apr 2016, 19:22
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About time. I've always thought of myself as somewhat left in opinions on things but when it comes to leftist politicians of the current ilk, perhaps they should be confined to planning parks and planting trees......according to established EU rules specifying approved types, sizes, shapes and spacing, of course.
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Old 17th Apr 2016, 22:03
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After some 9 years of Left Wing MEPs obstructing it, the EU finally have been forced to agree to allow EU airlines to share details of passengers with law enforcement agencies.


The data known as Passenger Data Records is already in use in the UK and US and will assist law enforcement agencies in detecting terrorist movements, and drug and people trafficking. It also has the capability to identify suspicious travel patterns.
If it works so well then how come hundreds of UK residents have ended up in Syria via Turkey even though they were known for extremist views and being watched by UK security services ?
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Old 18th Apr 2016, 09:23
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
If it works so well then how come hundreds of UK residents have ended up in Syria via Turkey even though they were known for extremist views and being watched by UK security services ?
Quite simple, as pointed out the EU would not allow the scheme to go ahead and thus the EU airlines were not part of the scheme. They are now.
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Old 18th Apr 2016, 10:54
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The data known as Passenger Data Records
No. It is actually Passenger Name Record or PNR data.

The UK along with at least 14 other EU countries has been using and collecting this data for years. It still hasn't stopped many nutters heading for the ISIS battlefields.

Maybe you should stick to trains or go and post more of your UKIP bile somewhere else.
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Old 18th Apr 2016, 13:26
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Originally Posted by G-AWZK View Post
No. It is actually Passenger Name Record or PNR data.

The UK along with at least 14 other EU countries has been using and collecting this data for years. It still hasn't stopped many nutters heading for the ISIS battlefields.

Maybe you should stick to trains or go and post more of your UKIP bile somewhere else.
Maybe you should do some basic research before offering up inaccuracies.
From the EU website

Passenger name record (PNR) data is personal information provided by passengers and collected and held by air carriers. It includes information such as the name of the passenger, travel dates, itineraries, seats, baggage, contact details and means of payment. The proposal for a directive presented by the Commission aims to regulate the transfer of such PNR data to member states' law enforcement authorities and their processing for the prevention, detection, investigation and prosecution of terrorist offences and serious crime.
On 4 December 2015, the Council approved the compromise text agreed with the European Parliament. The Parliament's Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs Committee endorsed the text on 10 December 2015.
The draft directive aims to regulate the transfer of PNR data from the airlines to national authorities, as well as their processing of this data. Under the new directive, airlines will have to provide PNR data for flights entering or departing from the EU. It will also allow, but not oblige, member states to collect PRN data concerning selected intra-EU flights.
The directive establishes that PNR data collected may only be processed for the prevention, detection, investigation and prosecution of terrorist offences and serious crime.
In the context of these activities, PNR data can be used in several ways:
  • for a pre-arrival or pre-departure assessment of passengers against defined risk criteria, or in order to identify specific persons
  • as input in the development of these risk criteria
  • for specific investigations or prosecutions
Copy of link to Guardian - Good enough for you ?
European plan for blanket collection of air passengers? data clears key hurdle | UK news | The Guardian
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Old 18th Apr 2016, 13:36
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RE you said "to allow EU airlines to share details of passengers with law enforcement agencies."

What makes you think EU airlines wanted to share their PNR data with law enforcement agencies? I can assure you they didn't. They are being 'directed to' give access to it

Let's face it governments are incapable of using API data properly for the intended purposes why would they be able to use PNR data which is less extensive.

And while I may trust the airline with my credit card and contact data, why should I trust some pencil pusher with access to my stuff?
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Old 18th Apr 2016, 13:40
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Take the issue up with the various organisations that I have linked. That is where the information has come from.


What you are saying then is that there is no EU proposal for the sharing of data and that the EU website is inaccurate as is the Guardian. ? As you wish.


By the way there has been no need to engage in vitriolic personal attacks, they do nothing to aid your cause.
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Old 18th Apr 2016, 13:50
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Take the issue up with the various organisations that I have linked. That is where the information has come from
You are the one that has raised the issue, in an aviation forum where there are likely to be people who will have forgotten more about PNR and API data than you will ever know. If you don't know what you are dribbling on about then I suggest you take the advice credited to Abraham Lincoln "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."
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Old 18th Apr 2016, 13:53
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ExXB,
I merely reported an item I picked up from the media, which seemed appropriate to share as I had not seen mention of it here before.

Many people will be concerned at the apparent ease with which those who are on the radar of the security agencies, to seemingly fly throughout Europe at will and that the tracking of such people has been delayed by MEPs. The US seems to have done much more to secure their borders than Europe has through the ESTA process.

Whilst I can appreciate there are concerns about personal data, quite frankly we live in a world where such information can be obtained without the use of computers, however we have to accept that we have a choice of either letting the bad guys travel the world at leisure, or reducing this ability through the management of passenger traveller data. Unfortunately the genie has been out of the bottle for a while.

As for more detailed information I am sure G-AWZK will be around to jump down your throat about this although he would be better off telling me why the airlines I use regularly seem incapable of actually keeping the data accurately.
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Old 18th Apr 2016, 13:55
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Originally Posted by G-AWZK View Post
You are the one that has raised the issue, in an aviation forum where there are likely to be people who will have forgotten more about PNR and API data than you will ever know. If you don't know what you are dribbling on about then I suggest you take the advice credited to Abraham Lincoln "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."
Please answer the question. Is the EU website inaccurate and is the Guardian reporting inaccurate, rather than continuing to post unnecessary abuse. You allege to be the expert so please educate the rest of us
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Old 18th Apr 2016, 15:26
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Y'all don't get your sailcloth knickers in a knot. PNR's are no secret and the data contained in them is mundane and do not require rocket surgeons nor the closely held skills of a G-AWZK to handle them. It's just electronic paperpushing.


The name of the passenger
Contact details for the travel agent or airline office.
Ticketing details, either a ticket number or a ticketing time limit.
Itinerary of at least one segment, which must be the same for all passengers listed.
Name of the person providing the information or making the booking.
Other information, such as a timestamp and the agency's pseudo-city code, will go in to the booking automatically. All entered information will be retained in the "history" of the booking.
Once the booking has been completed to this level, the CRS will issue a unique all alpha or alpha-numeric record locator, which will remain the same regardless of any further changes made (except if a multi-person PNR is split). Each airline will create their own booking record with a unique record locator, which, depending on service level agreement between the CRS and the airline(s) involved, will be transmitted to the CRS and stored in the booking.
A considerable amount of other information is often desired by both the airlines and the travel agent to ensure efficient travel. This includes:
  • Fare details, (although the amount may be suppressed, the type of fare will be shown), and any restrictions that may apply to the ticket.
  • Tax amounts paid to the relevant authorities involved in the itinerary.
  • The form of payment used, as this will usually restrict any refund if the ticket is not used.
  • Further contact details, such as agency phone number and address, additional phone contact numbers at passenger address and intended destination.
  • Age details if it is relevant to the travel, e.g., unaccompanied children or elderly passengers requiring assistance.
  • Frequent flyer data.
  • Special Service Requests (SSR) such as meal requirements, seating preferences, wheelchairs, and other similar requests.
  • "Optional Services Instruction" or "Other Service Information" (OSI) - information sent to a specific airline, or all airlines in the booking, which enables them to better provide a service. This information can include ticket numbers, local contacts details (the phone section is limited to only a few entries), airline staff onload and upgrade priority codes, and other details such as a passenger's language or details of a disability.
  • Vendor Remarks. VRs are comments made by the airline, typically generated automatically once the booking or request is completed. These will normally include the airline's own record locator, replies to special requests, and advice on ticketing time limits. While normally sent by the airlines to an agent, it is also possible for an agent to send a VR to an airline.
In more recent times, many governments now require the airline to provide further information included to assist investigators tracing criminals or terrorists. These include:
  • Passengers' gender
  • Passport details - nationality, number, and date of expiry
  • Date and place of birth
  • Redress number, (if previously given to the passenger by the US authorities).
  • All available payment/billing information.[1]
The components of a PNR are identified internally in a CRS by a one character code. This code is often used when creating a PNR via direct entry into a terminal window (as opposed to using a graphical interface). The following codes are standard across all CRSs based on the original PARS system:
  • - Name
  • 0 Segment (flight) information, including number of seats booked, status code (for example HK1 - confirmed for 1 passenger) and fare class
  • 1 Related PNR record ids.
  • 2 PNR owner identification (airline, CRS user name and role)
  • 3 Other airline Other Service Information (OSI) or Special Service Request (SSR) items
  • 4 Host airline OSI or SSR items
  • 5 Remarks
  • 6 Received from
  • 7 Ticketing information (including ticket number)
  • 8 Ticketing time limit
  • 9 Contact phone numbers
I don't have a problem providing any of this information, but then I'm not a terrorist or criminal. Don't know what the fefuffle is all about. Just wish all the illegals were made to have PNRs and the supporting documents as well.
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Old 18th Apr 2016, 19:37
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Although the thread title was incorrect and inflamitory.

The airlines lobbied against this directive for those years that MPs 'blocked' the directive. To date PNR data hasn't' been mined for data by 'black hats' because the airlines limited access tightly.

This regulation goes beyond the airlines giving data to governments it gives them access to their systems. Will we see fishing expeditions searching for passengers who booked a halal meal, or who have telephone numbers with an Israeli prefix.

As explained above the data itself has little value beyond what is already collected for API (which is not stored in the PNR) but there is a large potential for abuse.

And yes, some governments did already have access to some PNR data for passengers travelling to their country from non-EU points. Now they have access to PNR data for all of that airlines customers, regardless of their journey.

Perhaps had the OP posed a question, rather than simply repeat anti-EU rhetoric he may have had a different response.
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Old 19th Apr 2016, 12:54
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The legislation was proposed in 2011. Someone in the European Parliament blocked it (interested groups may oppose it but they need support within). ExXB you may have inside information which I love to gain access to.

Will we see fishing expeditions searching for passengers who booked a halal meal, or who have telephone numbers with an Israeli prefix.
Although I have a deep admiration for the security authorities of the UK, I doubt too many such expeditions will be done. Few weeks ago I was assured that an officer checking for non-legitimate reasons some databases commits a career limiting act. Are we sure similar provisions are not included here?

anti-EU rhetoric
.
I feel such things are as common here as are bikinis in a July Mediterranean beach.
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Old 19th Apr 2016, 14:24
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RiS, the arlines and their oganisations lobbied heavily not to give 'all and sundry' access to their databases. The Parlimantarians took note of the airline's views and tabled the idea as being unnecessary. Seeing as many governments required API information for travellers to heir country (even from other EU MSs) they saw no need to require PNR be accessible as well.

Following Paris and Brussels someone to the right of Gengis Khan decided that the Parliaments inaction on this was the reason why the bad guys weren't caught before they acted. Of course that was absolute rubbish. But nobody is going to sell newspapers with headlines like "EU MEPs repeatedly blocked unnecessary access to their private data".
Particularly when it suits their political purpose to denigrate anything to do with the EU.

You may be right that UK officials are all angels and wouldn't possibly misuse access privledges, and never pass along access codes to family/friends and never get terminated knowing colleagues log-ins and passwords. However ....

I'll make a small wager. Within 12 months I expect to see headlines from the right, or left, leaning press using information gleaned from PNR data that someone gave them unauthorised access to.

I expect all terrorists will in the future travel LCC as there is no meal choice to give them away {sarcastic smilie missing}
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