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Tesla and Lithium

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Tesla and Lithium

Old 26th Apr 2018, 06:27
  #1021 (permalink)  
 
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Well, that seems to have set the 'cat' among the pigeons. Two weeks and nary a comment. Popped my own electric bubble too, that did. All this pressure to scrap the fossil and update has blown away in the wind. (Not that I wouldn't give my left for a Tesla, even second-hand.)

The car arrived and I have been secretly taking it for a spin whenever the wife is out. The engine really needs a turbo or supercharger, but good comfortable cruising and firm cornering make up for that a little. No back camera but I am getting used to interpreting old-fashioned bleeps, and the 'paddle gears' on the steering wheel are simply the stereo volume control and cruise control settings.

Drove into the Jaguar/LandRover dealership today and asked for a new back roof antenna as the old one was floppy at the joint. Nothing else wrong with this car... (?) They discovered under the rubber concertina cover that it had a loose nut at the ratchet point. "Fixed that, sir. No charge." They bowed as I swanned away happily.
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Old 26th Apr 2018, 06:55
  #1022 (permalink)  
 
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But the X type is just a mondeo on fancy dress, surely
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Old 26th Apr 2018, 08:40
  #1023 (permalink)  
 
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Sssshhhhh about the 20%... it's all hidden underneath!

Last edited by jolihokistix; 26th May 2018 at 03:49.
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Old 26th Apr 2018, 22:26
  #1024 (permalink)  

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I went to see the new electric Jaguar I-Pace this evening. Similar range, performance and charging capabilities as the Tesla Model S. Good looking, well designed vehicle and £30,000 cheaper than the Model S! I would have bought one a year ago had it been available when I bought my Model S. It will be my next choice unless something better has appeared when I next change cars.
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Old 27th Apr 2018, 07:24
  #1025 (permalink)  
 
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Now you are making me jealous. If I had my druthers, that is what I would love.
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Old 4th May 2018, 19:48
  #1026 (permalink)  
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Porsche to get its own electric network.

How many different systems will there be?

Remember what happened to 'phone chargers . . .
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Old 4th May 2018, 20:18
  #1027 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by G-CPTN View Post
Porsche to get its own electric network.

How many different systems will there be?

Remember what happened to 'phone chargers . . .
The disparity between all the competing charging networks is barking mad. I just never, ever bother to use any of them, as you have to pay an annual fee for each different system, and the cost of just joining several systems in order to get an access card would be more than any saving I'd make by running on electric power. Instead I've decided that a pure EV is just impractical for me for the foreseeable future, and I'll stick with a plug-in hybrid that I can charge at home, and in most places where we are likely to go on holiday (we're away for a few days later this month and the hotel has three free charge points, that can be used by any type of EV of PHEV). What's needed is the sort of standardisation we have at filling stations, where every unleaded pump fits every car that uses unleaded fuel, every diesel pump fits every car that uses diesel fuel, etc, rather than the plethora of different systems, most of which require an annual fee for an access card, plus a fixed fee to connect to the charger, plus, in some cases, a fee per kWh. Many charge a £1.20 connection charge, irrespective of how much electricity you actually use, or how long you stay connected, which means that it's pointless to use them for a quick boost charge - if you're driving a PHEV you're better off burning petrol.
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Old 4th May 2018, 21:47
  #1028 (permalink)  
 
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Im still really happy with my Outlander PHEV. I can go 30 - 35 miles just on electric which works for me most days. And charge from solar panels on my house roof so free electricity! But this article in the beeb is worrying. UK Gov is looking at outlawing Hybrids and PHEV's that cant go more than 50 miles per charge. Car industry on alert over reports some hybrids face a ban - BBC News
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Old 4th May 2018, 22:06
  #1029 (permalink)  
 
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I see from the middle of this year Tesla will start to lose the $7500 tax credit on their vehicles - wonder if that will have any impact on sales.
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Old 5th May 2018, 09:02
  #1030 (permalink)  
 
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The future of electric cars is all-electric or 48volt mild-hybrid

Originally Posted by ChrisJ800 View Post
Im still really happy with my Outlander PHEV. I can go 30 - 35 miles just on electric which works for me most days. And charge from solar panels on my house roof so free electricity! But this article in the beeb is worrying. UK Gov is looking at outlawing Hybrids and PHEV's that cant go more than 50 miles per charge. Car industry on alert over reports some hybrids face a ban - BBC News
Utterly wrong-headed.
Recent auto trade journal article predicts electric will trend towards all-electric or mild-hybrids (48volts used for motor restart after all stops, turbo charger spin-up, power boost at full throttle, regenerative braking and maybe hub-motors in the non-drive wheels for some 4wd.) With the overly complicated PHEV's and range-extending motors in all-electrics becoming extinct.

edit: I wrote that before reading the BBC article. But this predicted and not-mandated electrical application trend (all electric or 48 volt mild-hybrid) is USA-centric, where I don't think the total ban on fuel propulsion is in the works...though environmental considerations now seem to be a political football that can switch direction wildly every 4 years. (National monument now...fracked, mined, grazed and developed tomorrow.) In a way applicable though, if correct in that the market will naturally abandon the PHEV's. (I don't think the mild-hybrids would normally plug in.)
48 volts is the highest DC level considered sub-lethal? ( 24 and 5 volt ceilings apply in some industrial controls, I believe.) At one time our cars were 6-volt, some commercial vehicles are now 24, and all fuel powered may just go to 48--a nice voltage now for assist systems on bicycles.

Last edited by dogsridewith; 6th May 2018 at 14:52.
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Old 5th May 2018, 17:22
  #1031 (permalink)  
 
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... and meanwhile, the same government - even the same government department, methinks - has abandoned much of the new electric train lines and specified, you guessed it, hybrid-sort-of diesels, at the same time as diesel cars are being hounded off the roads.
It couldn't be that the govt are responsible for paying for rail electrification, and the punter is responsible for the loss when his diesel car becomes illegal?
Nah, surely not.
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Old 25th May 2018, 08:24
  #1032 (permalink)  
 
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Am I looking in the wrong place? Apologies if this was posted elsewhere on the site. Tesla Model S drives itself into pond last Sunday, killing owner.
Driver identified in deadly Tesla crash into pond in Castro Valley | abc7news.com
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Old 25th May 2018, 09:28
  #1033 (permalink)  

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I read the article and nowhere did I read that 'Tesla Model S drives itself into pond last Sunday,'

The autopilot is not designed to be used on a single carriageway road, if it was in use at all, and from the video it is possible that excessive speed may have been an issue.

In other news it has been discovered that worldwide many cars crashed yesterday.
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Old 25th May 2018, 10:22
  #1034 (permalink)  
 
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Point taken! (At least we have now logged it. All grist to the mill.) And no, I am not anti-Tesla, just jealous...
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Old 25th May 2018, 12:57
  #1035 (permalink)  
 
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Don't blame the Tesla because more driving modes equates to more ways of rubbing yourself out by not following the guide book.
Plus the more Teslas there are on the road the quicker they will catch up with statistical averages.

They do appear to be a well thought out vehicle and for their complexity appear to be quite reliable (so long as they don't invite Microsoft to give them a hand in building their next car).
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Old 25th May 2018, 14:45
  #1036 (permalink)  
 
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Good article about the mythical $35,000 Tesla..

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...-elon-musk-buy
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Old 25th May 2018, 18:17
  #1037 (permalink)  
 
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Original Post by Highway 1
Good article about the mythical $35,000 Tesla..
Confirms what I read in the WSJ article:
[QUOTE]

Elon Musk’s about-face on Model 3 pricing is a warning sign for the stock

May 21, 2018 11:40 a.m. ET Tesla has given the first signals that it is giving up on its ambition to become a mass-market car maker. Prospective customers should be angry, and investors ought to be wary.

Over the weekend, Chief Executive Elon Musk announced a new, $78,000 version of Tesla’s car for the people, the Model 3. More important was his admission that his promised $35,000 version would cause the company to “lose money and die” if built right away.

Tesla has struggled to produce a $50,000 version of the Model 3, and as the company burns through cash, the question is how many of those will be available once the faster $78,000 offering is ready. If Model 3 is suddenly a high-end car, then Tesla, whose other offerings start around that price, would be more comparable to Maserati than to Chevy, which is producing a $36,620 electric car.

The problem is investors have given Tesla a near $50 billion market cap in the belief the company will upend the global auto industry, not become a niche, high-end electric car maker. What that latter company is worth is hard to say, but it is not the current market valuation.

Then there are the nearly 500,000 Tesla die-hards who put down $1,000 deposits for what they thought was a car that started at $35,000. How many can afford, or would be willing to pay for the higher-end models? These refundable deposits account for a third of the cash on Tesla’s rickety balance sheet.

Mr. Musk said Tesla would produce a low-end Model 3 toward the end of the year, though Tesla’s forecasts are typically optimistic.

But there is an issue that will require fixing first, brakes, then the centrally located touch screen...

Consumer Reports: We can't recommend Tesla's Model 3

[email protected]

The Tesla Model 3 is not good enough to earn a recommendation from Consumer Reports, the magazine said. While the car is exciting to drive, difficult controls and weak brakes prevented it from getting the publication's much-sought-after approval.

Consumer Reports has said the larger and more expensive Tesla Model S was among the best cars it had ever tested.
Not so with the Tesla Model 3. The magazine praised the car's acceleration, handling and driving range. Those things, Consumer Reports said, could have made it a strong competitor against similarly priced cars like the Audi A4 and BMW 3-series.
In Consumer Reports tests, the Model 3 went from zero to 60 miles an hour in just 5.3 seconds, and testers found the sedan's handling reminiscent of a Porsche Boxster two-seat sports car.
But, in emergency braking tests, the car took 152 feet, on average, to come to a stop from 60 miles an hour. That was seven feet more than a Ford F-150 full-size truck needed, according to the magazine. It's about 20 feet longer than the average for other cars similar to the Model 3.
The car's braking performance was also extremely inconsistent, the magazine said.
Tesla's own tests have shown much shorter stopping distances, a spokeswoman for the automaker said.
The publication also took issue with the Model 3's controls, almost all of which rely on a large centrally-located touch screen.
"This layout forces drivers to take multiple steps to accomplish simple tasks," Consumer Reports reported in an online post.
Even adjusting the side mirrors or changing the direction of the air flow from the dashboard vents requires interacting with the touch screen. That means extended periods of time in which the driver's eyes are off the road ahead, Consumer Reports said.
Consumer Reports also faulted the Model 3 for its firm ride, uncomfortable rear seats and wind noise at highway speeds.
It was the weak and inconsistent braking performance that really kept the Model 3 from earning a recommendation, though, said Jake Fisher, head of auto testing for Consumer Reports.That leaves open the possibility that, if Tesla were to improve the car's braking performance through a software update, for instance, the car could then earn the approval, Fisher said, despite other issues.
BTW, locally Four high school students on the way to their senior prom dance in a Tesla Model S crashed, two were ejected and one was killed. The car was doing over 100mph going over a crest of a hill (hill hopping as it is known), the driver lost control and went off the right side of the road, over corrected causing the car to roll over once but came back on its wheels and then it hit a fence and tree on the left of the road. The only positive things that can be said, the car didn't catch on fire which would have happened if it were a gasoline powered car and the seat belts worked for those that wore them.
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Old 25th May 2018, 19:31
  #1038 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
The only positive things that can be said, the car didn't catch on fire which would have happened if it were a gasoline powered car and the seat belts worked for those that wore them.
I know people who've crashed petrol cars at similar speeds and not one of them caught fire. What makes you think it would have done in this case?

Whereas Teslas have a reputation for catching fire in a crash, and being impossible to put out. Because electric. So being retained in the car by seat belts may be the last thing you want to happen. Getting thrown out may well save your life.

One in March, which fortunately didn't kill the driver:

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/...n-highway-101/

One in Florida a couple of weeks back where they burned alive while trapped inside:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/ntsb-inves...ry?id=55062449

And another one just last week:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/05/14/...e-switzerland/

It doesn't say how fast they were going in that case, but lots of idiots crash into the central barrier on one of the roads around here while merging, and not one of those cars has yet exploded in a fatal fire.

Would be interesting to know how they even passed crash tests if merely hitting a barrier at highway speeds is enough to make them burn.
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Old 25th May 2018, 23:31
  #1039 (permalink)  
 
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Original Post by MG23
I know people who've crashed petrol cars at similar speeds and not one of them caught fire. What makes you think it would have done in this case?

Whereas Teslas have a reputation for catching fire in a crash, and being impossible to put out. Because electric. So being retained in the car by seat belts may be the last thing you want to happen. Getting thrown out may well save your life.

One in March, which fortunately didn't kill the driver:
This is what what makes me think and the police who were on the scene after the crash:
Are electric cars more likely to catch fire?
The simple answer is probably not. Chances are they might even be safer, though it's tough to say that definitively.
"The propensity and severity of fires and explosions from ... lithium ion battery systems are anticipated to be somewhat comparable to or perhaps slightly less than those for gasoline or diesel vehicular fuels," according to the results of an in-depth investigation into the relative fire risks of the two types of vehicles conducted by Battelle for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration last fall.
About 174,000 vehicle fires were reported in the United States in 2015, the most recent year for which statistics are available from the National Fire Protection Association. Virtually all of those fires involved gasoline powered cars. That works out to about one every three minutes.
Tesla claims that gasoline powered cars are about 11 times more likely to catch fire than a Tesla. It says the best comparison is fires per 1 billion miles driven. It says the 300,000 Teslas on the road have been driven a total of 7.5 billion miles, and about 40 fires have been reported. That works out to five fires for every billion miles traveled, compared to a rate of 55 fires per billion miles traveled in gasoline cars.
But still there’s not enough data to make valid comparisons at this point.
and,

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/...ered-vehicles/

Guess every crash is unique, correct?
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Old 25th May 2018, 23:42
  #1040 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by radeng View Post
Ironic that the company is called Tesla and uses batteries, since Nikola Tesla was the guy who pushed AC distribution and invented the induction motor.....
and showed that DC could kill an elephant!
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