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Tesla and Lithium

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Tesla and Lithium

Old 26th Jun 2017, 04:06
  #821 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Bavaria
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Originally Posted by dsc810 View Post
I see the monopoly supplier of motorway electric charging points is now jacking up the prices big time
Well Well - who'd have thought it....
Exclusive: Green energy tycoon in eye of the storm over electric car charging prices
Whenever a new technology is introduced the people who stand to suffer campaign against it.

This has been true since the ancient Romans introduced piped water for drinking and sanitation systems. The vested interests, in this case the merchants who supplied households with barrels of water, campaigned against this new fangled technology.

And so it is till this day. The big difference today being that social media sites like this allow people who likely have no money in the issue one way or another to participate in the debate.

An exercise for students of sociology. Discuss, why certain individuals come out against new technology even when they have no 'skin' in the game? Could it be that some people are inherently conservative and must join the argument on the side that appears to maintain the status quo?

The dialogue against electric vehicles as been a powerful one on Jet Blast and somehow no surprise when the politics of the group is considered. And yet for what is an aviation forum such technological conservatism is rather regressive.

I fancy that if Jet Blast had been around when the internal combustion engine was introduced many those posting here would have been the same people who shouted, "Get a horse" at broken down motoring pioneers.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 05:11
  #822 (permalink)  
 
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When the IC engined car first came out it was unaffordable to all but the rich.
When I can pick up a electric car for 800 and have it do another 100,000 miles with nothing more than the equivalent of a few cam belt changes and general maintenance I'm in.
In the meantime I can continue to put a lot of fuel in my current petrol powered 22 year old jalopy for the cost of a new Tesla or any other all electric car.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 11:10
  #823 (permalink)  
 
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When you can afford to invest 8k in a car you will be able to get a nice second-hand Nissan Leaf which will cost you next to bugger all in petrol and maintenance and taxes for the next 100,000 miles.

An acquisition budget of 800 for a car which has 100,000 miles of life left in it is somewhat unrealistic and will cost you an order of magnitude more than that in real terms in maintenance and repairs and fuel and taxes over your expected usage of the thing.

Long-term thinking is better than short-term thinking, every time.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 11:24
  #824 (permalink)  
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2017 Nissan Leaf - 159 kms on a charge in typical commute environment - manufacturer's figures.


Good for some.
Not good for some.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 11:49
  #825 (permalink)  
 
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In the UK 95% of private car journeys are for a distance of 27 miles or less.

Assuming the non-existence of a charger at the destination, a round trip of that distance is less than 90km.

Sure, that's no good for someone who wants to drive 900 miles to Florida wearing nappies, but for ordinary sensible folk it's eminently practical.

I drive a now obsolete 90kWh battery Tesla Model S. Its modern counterpart, with the 100kWh battery does over 300 miles at 70mph and a 25 minute recharge during a lunchbreak gives another 180 miles of range.

Range is no longer an issue for electric cars.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 12:33
  #826 (permalink)  
 
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90kWh to 100kWh, an 11% improvement in what time frame?

Saw one yesterday again in my suburb, much more stunning than the brand new Bentley two door that had parked behind me.

Work colleague mentioned that someone took a P model for a test drive and scared themselves white on first big welly, of which I proffered that said person should consider a Leaf or Prius. Turns out he drives a Prius, horses for courses I suppose, or should that be amps for champs?
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 12:43
  #827 (permalink)  
 
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The 11% improvement in capacity is only part of the story.

The way they managed to get that improvement was by rerouting the cooling channels within the battery pack which enables not only more cells to be crammed into the same size of battery pack but also significantly improves cooling which in turn enables both faster charge rates and greater power takeoff.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 12:53
  #828 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks C33, what I am trying to identify is an extrapolation to when the P110 will be released. I remember the P80, the P90, now the P100, but I cannot recall their release dates. Is the delivery time of these milestones actually getting shorter or longer?
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 13:01
  #829 (permalink)  
 
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I think they're getting pretty close to the point where further expansion of capacity within the form factor and main chemistry of the pack itself reaches a diminishing return.

The 100 battery already fulfills anyone's reasonable needs, I'd say.

I was invited to consider upgrading from my 90 to a hundred, but they wanted silly money, so I declined. With 'only' 90kWh I've never run into a capacity problem, even on very long (multi-thousand mile) trips on the continent.

Is the delivery time of these milestones actually getting shorter or longer?
I think they only manufacture the 100 pack nowadays. 90 is no longer an option. The smaller capacity ones are actually full capacity packs which are crippled in software until you pay a ransom to upgrade by a wireless software mod. They do the same thing with other options such as Autopilot. The hardware is already in the car; you just pay to have it enabled in software.
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Old 29th Jun 2017, 14:05
  #830 (permalink)  
 
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The only problems with lithium batteries are when it's used in it's less safe LiPo......and trying to ship them since less and less freight companies are willing to ship them.

The solution is to move manufacturing to the country where the cars are sold.

That said, Tesla uses the safest possible lithium based technology as does toyota now.

Don't expect electric bikes to be a good investment because there will be a few high visibility instances of electric bike commuters parking their bikes in the office work cubicle and it starting a large fire.

It's coming and will ruin what could be a good thing in electric bikes because public uneducated uproar will doom the niche.

It just takes a couple of chumps who decided to use hobby king LiPo batteries on their bikes and want to park the bike in their office.
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Old 29th Jun 2017, 19:24
  #831 (permalink)  
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I can imagine that electric bicycles are available (there's always pedals for when the charge runs out), but, are electric motorcycles viable?
I am thinking more about commuting rather than 200mph sports bikes.
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Old 29th Jun 2017, 19:45
  #832 (permalink)  
 
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I shared a public charging station with a guy who was topping up one of these.

It seemed like a pretty good bike to me. He was absolutely delighted with it, just like all converts to electric cars. He said he'd never go back to a piston-banger except to experience the loud noise!
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Old 3rd Jul 2017, 22:22
  #833 (permalink)  
 
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Model 3 has just gained factory compliance and production will start two weeks ahead of schedule.
Deliveries set to start on July 28th.

They are aiming to make 10,000 cars a week by end 2018.

Mjb
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Old 4th Jul 2017, 10:33
  #834 (permalink)  

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Tesla currently have 400,000+ potential buyers who have placed deposits on the Model 3.
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Old 4th Jul 2017, 10:35
  #835 (permalink)  

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And from BMW:

See here.
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Old 5th Jul 2017, 15:31
  #836 (permalink)  
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Volvo goes electric across the board.
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 04:59
  #837 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mickjoebill View Post
Model 3 has just gained factory compliance and production will start two weeks ahead of schedule.
Deliveries set to start on July 28th.

They are aiming to make 10,000 cars a week by end 2018.

Mjb

Time will tell how well that goes. Some pretty major companies have been tripped up when making big jumps in the rate of production - with costs and/or quality control getting completely out of hand (and yes, Boeing was one of those tripped up by that - more than once).
Big difference between producing a few thousand vehicles a year and a few thousand vehicles per week. Me thinks we are about to find out just how smart Musk really is.
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Old 7th Jul 2017, 00:10
  #838 (permalink)  
 
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Saw an electric motorcycle win at Mosport a few years ago. Dunno how they reckoned the swept volume though. It didn't (couldn't?) take its lap of honour.

After an excellent landing etc...
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Old 7th Jul 2017, 00:56
  #839 (permalink)  
 
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If you dont have the smell of Castrol R then it isn't really racing..
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Old 7th Jul 2017, 02:15
  #840 (permalink)  
 
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Approaching the circuit/track on race day, two things (apart from the queues and the occasional flying wheel) impinge on the senses. The smell of hot Castrol R, and the noise of screaming engines. To me as a child, and even as an adult, they bring tears to the eyes.
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