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The Belgians have got him.

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The Belgians have got him.

Old 28th Mar 2016, 16:48
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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Thread seems to have run its course as the usual getting at one another has commenced.
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Old 28th Mar 2016, 18:22
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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European culture and values are based upon Christian values, like it or not.

I would disagree. The Ten commandments that Moses trekked down a hill....
Wait, what? Moses lived around 1300 years before Christ was born. How does that make the Ten Commandmants Christian? The fact is, "Christian values" are something very different than the Ten Commandments.
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Old 28th Mar 2016, 18:41
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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Well there are origins of things, but do tell.
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Old 29th Mar 2016, 12:43
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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Well there are origins of things, but do tell.
Let's start here:
You have heard it said, "Love your neighbor and hate your enemy." But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you...
You have heard it said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also....

Both are VERY different than what's in the 10 Commandments. And the above just scratch the surface. There's a whole lot more.
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Old 29th Mar 2016, 12:58
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KenV View Post
Let's start here:
You have heard it said, "Love your neighbor and hate your enemy." But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you...
You have heard it said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also....

Both are VERY different than what's in the 10 Commandments. And the above just scratch the surface. There's a whole lot more.
Which version of Christianity are you referring to, Ken? There are a variety of flavors. (I'll point out that this diversion is very off-topic for this thread, FWIW).
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Old 29th Mar 2016, 13:22
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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Basically, any version. I'm just pointing out that if one is talking about "Christian values", the 10 commandments may not be the best point of reference. First, they preceded Christianity by well over a millenia, and second Christianity's founder provided lots of changes and updates to that old value system. Clearly, Christianity's founder had a value system in mind that was quite different than the value system expressed in the 10 commandments. Further, I think it would be pretty tough to argue that this new value system is "just common sense rules for living a reasonably good life." Although arguably, the first four of the ten commandments also have little to do with "common sense."

Last edited by KenV; 29th Mar 2016 at 13:41.
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Old 29th Mar 2016, 13:24
  #147 (permalink)  
 
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I used to work with a PA who belonged to a religious group who would not save a child running in front of a car and would not vote at elections on the belief that this was distorting the will of God.

She would gleefully point to sections of the bible to argue her case and it is the same with the Koran
Stupid senseless woman as is anyone who picks detail in the bible or Koran as a directive to their beliefs stupid senseless people

These were books written and reinterpreted a long time ago by man

i too agree the ten commandments were no great shakes which could have been written with anyone with half a brain as a set of rules to help mankind get on with his neighbour.

There is only one commandment which makes sense to me which is to try to treat others as you would like them to treat you and if you read the Bible or Koran see them for what they are from an overview perspective and not the detail as the detail was written by man, changed by man with all mans flaws and faults and mistakes

Pace

Last edited by Pace; 29th Mar 2016 at 13:48.
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Old 29th Mar 2016, 13:47
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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i too agree the ten commandments were no great shakes which could have been written with anyone with half a brain
I would counsel caution when making such assumptions. We live in very different times than the folks 3500 years ago. One could with equal certitude claim it is obvious to "anyone with half a brain" that the earth is not flat and that the earth orbits the sun.
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Old 29th Mar 2016, 13:58
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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Ken

Then tell me what is in the ten commandments which isn't covered in this modern world by treating others how you would like them to treat you ?
Just one simple commandment

Obviously if you steal your neighbours car or Donkey he aint going to be happy with you.

Or if you run off with his wife? although I can think of a few marriages where one partner would be delighted if you did

The ten commandments are a set of rules which are rules for harmony and fit today as well as a long time ago but could be written by anyone with sense

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Old 29th Mar 2016, 17:29
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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Suppose my point was that the ten commandments are part of the bible, the guiding book of christianity, part of the start of the religion. Unless one only takes those parts of it that suit - as is done with the koran. Did the religion only start when the carpenter arrived? (not really interested in the answer)
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Old 29th Mar 2016, 17:41
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Originally Posted by Rail Engineer View Post
The people that interfered with the memorial did so because they knew no-one dare challenge them and because basically they do not give a toss about anything other than their own narrow interests.


Says it all!
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Old 29th Mar 2016, 18:01
  #152 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
Suppose my point was that the ten commandments are part of the bible, the guiding book of christianity, part of the start of the religion. Unless one only takes those parts of it that suit - as is done with the koran. Did the religion only start when the carpenter arrived? (not really interested in the answer)
Pre-Jesus that there was a religion based on Abraham (as, I believe, is Judaism).
Christianity appears to be a breakaway based on the assumption that Jesus was the son of God.

Islam is a later breakaway from Abrahamic religion based on the teachings of the last prophet of God - Muhammad.
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Old 29th Mar 2016, 19:12
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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This thread has taken a very bizarre turn at some stage...
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Old 29th Mar 2016, 19:27
  #154 (permalink)  

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Belgium, for all its perceived shortcomings, has an honourable Surrealist tradition.
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Old 29th Mar 2016, 20:56
  #155 (permalink)  

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Ah, I see we're back on the straight and narrow again.
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Old 29th Mar 2016, 21:12
  #156 (permalink)  
 
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I think this sort of tripe was neatly summed up in the first few minutes of "Life of Brian"...

"Why can't women go to stonings, mother?"
"BECAUSE IT'S WRITTEN, that's why!"
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Old 30th Mar 2016, 16:02
  #157 (permalink)  
 
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Ken, Then tell me what is in the ten commandments which isn't covered in this modern world by treating others how you would like them to treat you ?
Just one simple commandment
May I suggest you read the 10 commandments? You will find that the first 4 commandments have nothing to do with how you "treat others." Those first four are all about how you treat god. And "in this modern world" the mere mention of god (never mind how to worship god) is taboo in many settings. For the record, "Christian values" places loving God with your whole heart, mind and soul as the "first and greatest commandment". And loving others as yourself is the second. Further, "in this modern world" loving god FIRST and loving god with your whole heart, mind and soul is very counter intuitive and not at all obvious to "anyone with half a brain" or "anyone with sense" as was claimed.
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Old 30th Mar 2016, 16:05
  #158 (permalink)  
 
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Did the religion only start when the carpenter arrived? (not really interested in the answer)
For the record, Christianity started not when the carpenter's son arrived. It started three days after he was murdered, which was about 13 centuries after Moses came down the mountain with the 10 commandments.
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Old 30th Mar 2016, 17:01
  #159 (permalink)  
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" I would counsel caution when making such assumptions. We live in very different times than the folks 3500 years ago "

Ah, yet another facet emerges.....that of a religious philosopher....but no matter, that's quite a revelatory statement after all.

Just think, if he had the technology available to him, Moses could have set out the lot on a "Death by Power Point" presentation... or banged them on a pdf file....and that would have been that...all done and dusted and available for amending as required.

However, given your insight, will you be submitting an addendum to the Book of Revelations at all ?

That said, I do think the term "Christian values" is the same as "Victorian values" a generic term which involves a very broad swathe of values and practices, not simply attending church for example.

As I have said before, I respect people's views and their wish to interpret their faiths as they perceive those faiths without detriment to others.
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Old 30th Mar 2016, 17:28
  #160 (permalink)  
 
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Moses had his Commandments set in stone...

... 'fast forward' a few thousand years and we get the 'Ed Stone'!!

"I respect people's views and their wish to interpret their faiths as they perceive those faiths without detriment to others."
Thankfully, as a result of the last general election, Labour are now permitted to "interpret their faiths as they perceive those faiths without detriment to others."
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