Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

The EU - in or out? This is the hamsterwheel.

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

The EU - in or out? This is the hamsterwheel.

Old 22nd Jun 2016, 09:49
  #3701 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: MARS
Posts: 1,033
I for one will accept whatever the result is.

If the vote is to remain, then this country needs to fundamentally change the way it does business.

We are woefully under represented in EU institutions for a number of reasons.

We must firmly establish EU languages as mandatory in our schools.
We must educate our children about the EU and how it works
We must do what the French do with their political education through their university system
We must get more of our UK citizens working in the EU institutions, form alliances with like minded states and change the socialist mentality of the EU which is holding back progress.
We must take a leading role in sorting out the imbalance in the EU with the southern states suffering significant unemployment and not paying their proper amount of tax.

This will take a strong and visionary government to achieve and I don't think any of the present incumbents are up to the task frankly.
Widger is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2016, 09:52
  #3702 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Confoederatio Helvetica
Age: 64
Posts: 2,847
All votes in CH done by postal ballot. While option exists to vote in person exists, almost no one does.

Fraud less than .01% and almost exclusively the head of family voting for all.
ExXB is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2016, 10:10
  #3703 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 290
Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
1. It's an American based website......

2. it's untrue. Exit polls etc are barred in case they effect voting, but all the headlines and editorials tomorrow will be pressing their preferences.

General election 2010: Election day newspaper front pages
I'm not sure point 2 is wholly true of the UK broadcasting media. Other than reporting the usual comings and goings around the actual process of voting, (photo ops and the like) I don't think they are permitted to report anything that could be considered 'political' in the accepted sense.

But I expect you were referring to the print media which of course are not bound by these regulations.
yellowtriumph is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2016, 10:14
  #3704 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 290
Originally Posted by alwayzinit View Post
"Postal vote fraud, now, that's where I'd put my money, if I had limited resource to spend on cleaning up elections. And the fix is dead simple - abolish postal voting on demand, and return to the system where you had to quote a good reason."

Spot on Gertrude! Totally agree, and that's a first!!
I agree too, but would go further and follow what I believe is the position in Australia for example where I understand you are required by law to vote. Spoil the ballot paper if you like, but you must do it in person.

Is that correct?
yellowtriumph is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2016, 10:22
  #3705 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Luberon
Age: 67
Posts: 896
Islamist hate preacher, Anjem Choudary, is backing the Remainers because being shackled to the EU means the UK finds it nearly impossible to chuck out extremists.
sitigeltfel is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2016, 10:30
  #3706 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: In the circuit
Posts: 177
Originally Posted by Widger View Post
We must take a leading role in sorting out the imbalance in the EU with the southern states suffering significant unemployment and not paying their proper amount of tax.

This will take a strong and visionary government to achieve and I don't think any of the present incumbents are up to the task frankly.
How can we do that if we're not in the Eurozone? The problems in southern europe are directly related to the single currency.

I don't think any Eurozone members would give a stuff what we think about solving the problems in Southern Europe if we're not going to join but shout abuse from the sidelines. This is one of those areas where people think that by gracing the EU with a Remain vote we will suddenly be the leading light. It won't happen.
Groundbased is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2016, 11:30
  #3707 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 6,000
Ground based

What do you mean by being in the Eurozone ? Is that being part of Shenghen holding the Euro ?
Do we fit part of the Eurozone now ? Is Switzerland part of the Eurozone ?
Whatever happens we will be part of the Eurozone anyone who thinks otherwise that we will sail off into the distance alone and unloved is either stupid, unrealistic or still pushing the government scare tactics !

There are so many EU supporters amongst MPs that I am not convinced a Brexit win by a small majority will even be voted through ?

MPs will find some reason to decline a Brexit while a win by 1 for remain and MPs will churn things around in their heads to claim a huge victory

Like the rest of the referendum it's a farce and only one result will satisfy David Cameron and his cronies here or abroad
Pace is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2016, 12:14
  #3708 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 6,000
It could be 45/ 55 both ways but we don't know what percentage of the potential voting public will actually turn out and vote ?
If it's like 40 or 50 % then only just over 25% could win it for Brexit
Would MPs accept that or juggle it around to insist that the other 75 % were actually not against remaining so 25 % was not in reality a majority and block the bill going through ?
Of course the other way around and they would claim as the other 75% didn't vote for a Brexit that Infact they were not against remaining and herald that as a huge victory
This referendum is stitched up regardless
Pace is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2016, 12:15
  #3709 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Currently within the EU
Posts: 315
ORAC
Untrue. Time is not a consideration, it only has to balance over a week or so, and on the issues, not the number of minutes.
As you say, that applies over a period. But for a critical set piece programme like this, and any reports on it, it will have been necessary to obtain absolute parity within the programme itself rather than say that it was offset by something broadcast a week ago.
The BBC will be well aware that both sides will be scrutinising the balance, and that neither side will be satisfied with less than 100‰ support for their views - as well illustrated by your own criticism.
Sallyann1234 is online now  
Old 22nd Jun 2016, 12:19
  #3710 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,417
Originally Posted by ExXB View Post
In many civilised countries campaigning is banned on election day. I think this is the case in the Excited Kingdom.

Perhaps the Mods could support this by locking this thread on Thursday.
The BBC doesn't do a lot whilst the polls are open, but that's just the BBC. There is no ban on campaigning, which will continue, certainly on the doorsteps, until the polls close.
Gertrude the Wombat is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2016, 12:24
  #3711 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: In the circuit
Posts: 177
Originally Posted by Pace View Post
Ground based

What do you mean by being in the Eurozone ? Is that being part of Shenghen holding the Euro ?
Do we fit part of the Eurozone now ? Is Switzerland part of the Eurozone ?
Whatever happens we will be part of the Eurozone anyone who thinks otherwise that we will sail off into the distance alone and unloved is either stupid, unrealistic or still pushing the government scare tactics !

There are so many EU supporters amongst MPs that I am not convinced a Brexit win by a small majority will even be voted through ?

MPs will find some reason to decline a Brexit while a win by 1 for remain and MPs will churn things around in their heads to claim a huge victory

Like the rest of the referendum it's a farce and only one result will satisfy David Cameron and his cronies here or abroad
I mean being in the single currency.
Groundbased is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2016, 12:37
  #3712 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: MARS
Posts: 1,033
I knew what you meant Groundbased. I suppose my point was that if we are to be part of a thriving EU of 28 + nations, then we cannot distance ourselves from the issues with the Euro. Despite Cameron's assurances of the deal he reached (not in writing), I believe it inevitable that the UK will be drawn into the issue as to not do so will mean the inexorable decline of the whole EU economy. If we vote out, we can say 'nothing to do with us mate' while if we vote in, we surely will have not only a duty of care but our own national interests to see a healthy Euro. Just one aspect a weak Euro make German imports cheaper which increases our trade deficit and makes us more expensive as a tourist destination.
Widger is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2016, 12:40
  #3713 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: LSZH, oder in der Nähe
Posts: 348
Originally Posted by Groundbased View Post
How can we do that if we're not in the Eurozone?
A medical team doesn't need all the team members to be suffering from the same affliction as the patient they're treating.
Originally Posted by Groundbased View Post
The problems in southern europe are directly related to the single currency.
Correlation does not imply causation. The problems in Southern Europe were manifest long before the euro area (to grace it with its correct name) came into existence.
WeeJeem is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2016, 12:49
  #3714 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Norfolk
Age: 63
Posts: 2
Racism and hate crimes only exist because we are a multicultural society, just something to bear in mind if you vote to remain in the EU.

Voting leave isn't going to stop racism in this country, but it may go some way to allowing the immigrants who are already here to integrate into our society, rather than impose their views on our culture.

What incentive does an immigrant have to adapt to the British way of life if all they are determined to do is create a microcosm of their native country in the UK?

There are entire cities in the UK where you can live a "normal" life without ever having to learn to speak english, or even hear anyone speaking english. That just cannot be right, no matter what your views on immigration.

We need to leave the EU no matter what the cost. This country needs to put the brakes on immigration and free up our business from legislation designed to favour multi-national conglomerates.

This is your last and only chance to make a difference.

Please don't assume this is some racist rant against immigration, it isn't. Immigration needs to be controlled so as to ensure immigrants are integrated into their new home. That takes time. Failure to integrate into society leads to extremism, isolation and crime, particularly among the children of immigrants, who grow up feeling disadvantaged rather than fortunate to live in a country that genuinely might offer them a chance of a better life than if their parents hadn't chosen or been forced to move.

Last edited by G0ULI; 22nd Jun 2016 at 12:57. Reason: Spelling
G0ULI is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2016, 13:03
  #3715 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 76
Posts: 16,584
Ladbrokes odd now 3:1 remain and 8:1 leave, lengthened from 4:1 yesterday. Yesterday remain was 3:1 on so that has lengthened too.
Pontius Navigator is online now  
Old 22nd Jun 2016, 13:15
  #3716 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the north starts
Posts: 94
PN is this right? Can't both be odds against, as you will always win by backing both sides. Is Remain still actually 3/1 on?
tow1709 is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2016, 13:20
  #3717 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Manchester, England
Age: 53
Posts: 811
Originally Posted by G0ULI View Post
Racism and hate crimes only exist because we are a multicultural society, just something to bear in mind if you vote to remain in the EU.
What tosh! I suppose by that logic racism was sparse before 1973?

Originally Posted by G0ULI View Post
Voting leave isn't going to stop racism in this country, but it may go some way to allowing the immigrants who are already here to integrate into our society, rather than impose their views on our culture.

What incentive does an immigrant have to adapt to the British way of life if all they are determined to do is create a microcosm of their native country in the UK?

There are entire cities in the UK where you can live a "normal" life without ever having to learn to speak english, or even hear anyone speaking english. That just cannot be right, no matter what your views on immigration.

We need to leave the EU no matter what the cost. This country needs to put the brakes on immigration and free up our business from legislation designed to favour multi-national conglomerates.

This is your last and only chance to make a difference.

Please don't assume this is some racist rant against immigration, it isn't. Immigration needs to be controlled so as to ensure immigrants are integrated into their new home. That takes time. Failure to integrate into society leads to extremism, isolation and crime, particularly among the children of immigrants, who grow up feeling disadvantaged rather than fortunate to live in a country that genuinely might offer them a chance of a better life than if their parents hadn't chosen or been forced to move.
You are one confused feller! Leaving the EU will potentially stop the 180,000 EU immigrants that came over last year, but will do diddly squat about the 180,000 non EU immigrants that arrived at the same time. The tone of your rant suggests that 95% of the people you are referring to will have been in the latter group.
Curious Pax is online now  
Old 22nd Jun 2016, 13:34
  #3718 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,336
What incentive does an immigrant have to adapt to the British way of life if all they are determined to do is create a microcosm of their native country in the UK?

There are entire cities in the UK where you can live a "normal" life without ever having to learn to speak english, or even hear anyone speaking english. That just cannot be right, no matter what your views on immigration.
Firstly I agree completely with your last line, but if this is happening in the UK then you need to perhaps look at Westminster or below in the UK political system to find out who has made such a situation possible..

The raw numbers of immigrants may or may not be the fault of the EU and we can and have argued forever over that, but if you can survive and deal with officialdom in the UK with no English language skills then that I'm afraid is a domestic problem and perhaps is the fault of those who want to make the UK a welcoming destination.....

Try dealing with any form of officialdom in most parts of the EU and you will be expected to either speak the local lingo or pay to provide your own translator. A couple of our local hospitals display prominent notices carrying the telephone numbers of private translation services... they are not cheap and you soon learn to sharpen up your language skills.

Last edited by wiggy; 22nd Jun 2016 at 16:12.
wiggy is online now  
Old 22nd Jun 2016, 13:40
  #3719 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: MARS
Posts: 1,033
Britain cannot use an 'Out' vote to negotiate a better deal if Britain leaves, Jean-Claude Junker said today.

"The British policy makers and British voters have to know that there will not be any kind of renegotiation," Mr Juncker said. "Out is out."



That will be the same for an in vote as well then!!
Widger is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2016, 14:01
  #3720 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 6,000
Bollocks )) he would say that
You only dictate from a position of strength the EU is far from being in a position of strength
It's all game play
Pace is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.