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A Sickness in US Society

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A Sickness in US Society

Old 27th Aug 2015, 22:57
  #41 (permalink)  

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Oh great, another Brusselís sprouts thread, how unique.
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Old 28th Aug 2015, 00:39
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Theres a sickness in most western societies, not just the US. Like many things, its is a non linear effect dependent on many variables. Hence it is most pronounced in the US.

Also like many things, there are various people who like to take advantage of such tragedies to stick the boot in for their own political standpoint. That sort of says more about them than the situation.

The op started with a question about societal values for want of a better word, the usual ones decided to turn it in the usual all about guns sh!t fight. For what reason? I would gather for the own perverse pleasure.

The reality is, the gun death issue is complicated, and won't be linearly reduced with any practically envisaged gun control means in the US.

What these things do, is shine a light on how perverse our societies have become with a lack of basic moral guidance. A classic up yours jack, whats in life for me view. Or a, I'm special every one says so, then are disappointed when what they get out into the real world and find out their not.

People don't have aims anymore, they are looking for a purpose, ISIS, Christian fundamentalism, Buddhism, drugs, green extremism, save the pink fox bat, what ever.

What ever happened to, hey having a family and doing your best to raise good kids and providing a stable environment for them.

Oh sh!t thats too old fashioned. Thank you socialists for the decaying world we live in.
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Old 28th Aug 2015, 04:04
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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You furiners are missing the point

We all express our hostility to others. We just do it in a different way with finality.

I know some of you would like to get up close (if you could) to a fellow JBer and choke the living ch**t out of them. Not being able to do that makes you even angrier and you get banned for using bad words

We don't have these hangups, we just get even in other ways.
Probably the most accurate post on culture in the US I have read here.

The country was founded on aggression, gained its independence by aggression, expanded by aggression, a large part of its entertainment media is centred around aggression. Is it any wonder that its citizens resort to aggression when feeling threatened or aggrieved.
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Old 28th Aug 2015, 04:28
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Hear, hear!

I agree with that, and the thing is that it's often naked agression.

There's a lot of this bitchy, half-concealed "passive-agressiveness" going around these days, but there's still a large American fan base for that old-fashioned, John Wayne-style "Fill your hand, you S.O.B.!" often followed by "the smell of ... gunsmoke." This is enshrined in our myths of who we are and how we got what we have, that "God, guns and guts made America great!" It's B.S., of course, but it's very powerful B.S.

The creepy thing is that this latest murderer seems to have been right up to speed with both styles of aggression. First he tried to play the "I am being picked on for being a gay black" card, but when that did not seem to be working out for him, after two failed lawsuits brought on the basis of unfair discrimination, he turned to this old-fashioned way we have of sorting out grievances.

Personally, I don't think that aggression is much real use; it just brings more trouble. Force may have its uses, as with that recent train attack, but aggression, not so much.
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Old 28th Aug 2015, 09:53
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Lonewolf - the statement that you and millions of gun owners do not run about shooting people is true in as much as it is only thousands of gun owners shoot people - all you can say for yourself is that you have not shot anybody - yet.Every gun owner who shot and killed someone was able to make the same statement before the event.
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Old 28th Aug 2015, 11:28
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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The sickness in American society is the vast number of mentally-ill individuals who go unrecognised, untreated, and unwanted simply because there are absolutely no votes in mental health. None. And there never will be.

The same is true of England and Australia, and dozens of other countries as well. The mentally-ill are convenient cannon-fodder for politicians...let those with serious mental issues run around in society, let them kill (and be killed) and they are instantly the most marvellous instrument for pushing your political agenda against whomever you choose.

Just make sure the mental health issues are well and truly buried immediately, and that the authorities responsible are covered liberally in whitewash.

Works every time.
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Old 28th Aug 2015, 12:20
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rh200 View Post
Theres a sickness in most western societies, not just the US. ...

What ever happened to, hey having a family and doing your best to raise good kids and providing a stable environment for them.

Oh sh!t thats too old fashioned. Thank you socialists for the decaying world we live in.
In my view, that sums up the fundamental situation very succinctly.
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Old 28th Aug 2015, 12:31
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Over 50% of US homes are gun free. Shareholder pressure brings about the following

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34077174

Common sense is going to eventually prevail people, shed loads more will have to die but common sense will prevail 👍
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Old 28th Aug 2015, 13:31
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PLovett View Post
The country was founded on aggression, gained its independence by aggression, expanded by aggression, a large part of its entertainment media is centred around aggression. Is it any wonder that its citizens resort to aggression when feeling threatened or aggrieved.
The revenge fantasy is all over our stories, movies, books, tv shows, video games. Yes, it's a cultural meme. Heck, I think there was a TV show a few years ago with the title "Revenge" but all I ever saw were the network ads.
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Old 28th Aug 2015, 13:33
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Originally Posted by bcgallacher View Post
Lonewolf - the statement that you and millions of gun owners do not run about shooting people is true in as much as it is only thousands of gun owners shoot people - all you can say for yourself is that you have not shot anybody - yet.Every gun owner who shot and killed someone was able to make the same statement before the event.
If you don't try to break into my home, or threaten my life, you have nothing to fear from me. Your presumption of 70 million murderers in waiting is utter rubbish.
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Old 28th Aug 2015, 13:42
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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...until you go crazy. You can't say it WON'T happen, just I can't say it won't happen to me (I sincerely hope not, of course, for both of us!)
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Old 28th Aug 2015, 13:49
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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We never had the "right" to own a slave. We've amended the Constitution to say it applies to all humans.
In 1654, John Casor, a black indentured servant, was the first man to be declared a slave in a civil case.

And it depends on whether you think the original Constitution was a legally binding contract.

The Constitution that the delegates proposed included several provisions that explicity recognized and protected slavery. Without these provisions, southern delegates would not support the new Constitution--and without the southern states on board, the Constitution had no chance of being ratified.
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Old 28th Aug 2015, 14:07
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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A line from Rowan Atkinsons Black Adder series comes to mind, spoken by General Melchett....."where would we be, without a pig headed unwillingness to stare reality square in the face".

I have to admire Lonewolfs self belief, in that he alone, with his trusty gun, can keep his family safe.......queue the wild west music. I hate to break a fantasy, but no Glock, Smith & Wesson, Colt product will actually do the job of protecting your family. High perimeter walls, layered security systems , strong internal doors and a couple of Rottweilers will do an infinitely better job. But that's not sexy and phallic and gives one the sense of power and potency like a pistol does. You don't see adds for Pearl Handled interior doors. Likewise boasting to ones mates that " I have a 12 foot perimeter fence" doesn't have the same street cred as, "I'm licenced to carry".

Personally, I don't need a gun, I don't even have a fence. But I do have 2 big black angry dogs. Better than any damn gun.
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Old 28th Aug 2015, 14:40
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nomorecatering View Post
Personally, I don't need a gun,
That's what everyone says until the day they do need one. Then they don't say anything, because they're dead.

I don't even have a fence. But I do have 2 big black angry dogs. Better than any damn gun.
It's a bad idea to bring dogs to a gun fight. If you actually need a gun one day, the dogs won't last five minutes.

Over the last few decades, the number of guns in America has continually increased, and the level of violent crime has decreased. By anti-gun logic, that PROVES that guns reduce crime.

Or, just maybe, the level of gun ownership is far less important to crime levels than the number and kind of criminals.
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Old 28th Aug 2015, 15:14
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nomorecatering View Post
I have to admire Lonewolfs self belief, in that he alone, with his trusty gun, can keep his family safe.......queue the wild west music. .
Try not to put word's in some else's mouth, and you won't come off as dishonest ... and wilfully so. The cops can't be everywhere. Home invasions happen here ... one happened in our neighborhood about five months ago, result being one murder. (Yes, drug related crime, who saw that one coming?).

If you don't have a clue what you are talking about, might be best to fill the pie hole with food and drink. I have two dogs. The golden barks. Odds are that if someone tries to break in, the dog will alert me and I get to scare someone off ... and nobody gets shot. I've gotten some training, and some very good advice from a few Law Enforcement professionals on how to use the threat of your firearm, your positioning, and a bit else to convince them to leave. Even if the cops call it self defense, there's a lot of downside to that whole thing.
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Old 28th Aug 2015, 15:29
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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MG23 -The number of guns in the US has increased but the number of gun owners has fallen.Fewer people are acquiring more guns this would possibly account for the fall in gun deaths. Better medical practice would also bring the number of deaths down.
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Old 28th Aug 2015, 15:34
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
If you don't try to break into my home...you have nothing to fear from me.
The cultural difference is that you seem quite happy to take the life of someone who is simply trying to steal your TV. Most of the rest of civilised society considers that 'right' a tad extreme.
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Old 28th Aug 2015, 15:38
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Lonewolf - Where have I said there are millions of gun owners in waiting - I have merely stated the facts that - 1, thousands of gun owners kill people (9000 or so gun homicides per year in the US) 2, You have not yet shot anybody - this does not ensure you never will. 3, Every person that shot someone has been able to say prior to the event that they had never shot anyone.the school and cinema mass killers as well as the recent individual who shot the reporters was able to say this up until he pulled the trigger.
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Old 28th Aug 2015, 17:17
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Heck. I like guns and I like shooting! Who doesn't? It's great fun.

I think the problem in the US is the combo of lots of guns and a population that includes millions of the terminally stupid.

When you add the catalyst of that idiot Hollywood theme which encourages them to act like they'd been crossbred with John Wayne and Audie Murphy, you can see how they get in trouble.

Still, it's their problem, thankfully.
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Old 28th Aug 2015, 18:11
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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A contributory factor in the spread of violent crime and killing is, I suggest, the desensitising of society to violence as a result of decades of exposure to explicit violence on film, video, TV and other media platforms. Fortunes have been made by the producers of this stuff without conscience, and even many of the soaps include horrific story lines sanitising cruelty and bad conduct. Inadequate people with a grudge often pick up on these themes and act them out, encouraged by easy access to the mixed blessing of social media. Its a mess, and getting worse.
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