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Where does the UN imagine all these people are going to go?

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Where does the UN imagine all these people are going to go?

Old 19th Oct 2015, 19:06
  #881 (permalink)  
 
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Indeed MG23, the rule of unexpected consequences.
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Old 19th Oct 2015, 20:02
  #882 (permalink)  
 
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Unexpected? More like smack you in the face obvious
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Old 19th Oct 2015, 20:48
  #883 (permalink)  
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Refugee crisis: Merkel’s party unveils secret plan for 'Berlin Wall'-style defences on Germany’s borders

Chancellor Angela Merkel faced the prospect of major opposition to her open door refugee policy from her own Christian Democrats after a majority of her party’s MPs launched a parliamentary initiative proposing “Berlin Wall”-style defences on Germany’s borders.

Details of the Christian Democrats’ so-called “secret plan” to stem the current 10,000 a day influx of migrants into Germany were published in the mass circulation Bild newspaper which said that the initiative was supported by 188 of Ms Merkel’s 310 parliamentary party MPs........

We’re not your concentration camp, Turkey tells Germany’s Angela Merkel

Turkey has toughened its stance over refugees, telling Europe that it refuses to serve as a “concentration camp” for holding exiled Syrians in return for EU funds. Ahmet Davutoglu, the prime minister, made the remarks a day after Chancellor Angela Merkel struck a deal in Ankara in which Germany would lift its resistance to future Turkish membership of the Union in return for help in curbing the westward flow of refugees to Europe. Meeting President Erdogan and Mr Davutoglu, she also promised additional EU funding “We cannot accept an understanding like ‘give us the money and they stay in Turkey’. Turkey is not a concentration camp,” Mr Davutoglu said in a television interview. “I said this to Merkel too. No one should expect Turkey to turn into a concentration camp where all the refugees stay in.”

The prime minister also insisted that Turkey should receive new funds beyond the €3 billion in aid that had already been earmarked for Ankara in the EU budget. His words were partly aimed at reassuring Turkish voters two weeks ahead of a general election that Ankara was not selling out to Europe. About two million refugees are now living in Turkey after fleeing the Syrian civil war.

Ms Merkel came under fire over her new willingness to support Turkish EU membership in Germany, France and elsewhere yesterday. Senior figures in the Bavarian Christian Social Union, an ally of her Christian Democrats, ruled out any prospect of Turkish entry to the Union. A group of conservative politicians are working on proposals to close the borders and put up fences, Bild newspaper said. “We need to stop the wave of refugees. Examining whether to fortify the borders should not be taboo,” said Christian von Stetten, a Christian Democrat MP. On the defensive, Thomas de Maiziere, the German interior minister and a confidant of Ms Merkel said: “We cannot sit on our moral pedestal all the time and lecture the world on human rights. We have common interests in this situation, so you have to make compromises.”

In France, which has done most to delay Turkish EU accession, Nicolas Sarkozy’s Republicans party urged President Hollande not to open the door to Ankara by resuming negotiations which have been blocked for years. “France must firmly oppose the relaunch of Turkish membership of the EU which Germany is mistakenly proposing,” said Frédéric Lefebvre, an MP and former cabinet minister under Mr Sarkozy’s presidency. Marine Le Pen’s anti-immigrant National Front said that Ms Merkel had “fallen into the Turkish trap”. Turkey had “opened the flood gates of immigration in order to speed up its membership of the EU,” said Aymeric Chauprade, a Front MEP and spokesman.

The scale of the crisis facing Europe was underlined when a Turkish government spokesman said that emigrants fleeing the new Russian offensive in Syria would probably make straight for Europe. “When the Syrians first came to Turkey, most people were simply looking for a place to weather the storm,” he said. “If a new wave reaches Turkey, they will be thinking of Europe as their final destination. This is a whole new ballgame.”........
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Old 19th Oct 2015, 20:57
  #884 (permalink)  
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Why now?

Stable door and horse bolted come to mind - or was in necessary to cause the influx before the 'Berlin Wall' could be recreated?
(no, that doesn't make sense . . . )
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Old 19th Oct 2015, 23:35
  #885 (permalink)  
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The whole mess does not make sense.
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Old 20th Oct 2015, 00:57
  #886 (permalink)  
 
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Red face

They all need to loop around to the East, via Ukraine - shouldn't be a problem should it?
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Old 20th Oct 2015, 05:47
  #887 (permalink)  
 
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SOPS ...'the whole mess doesn't make sense'. It does if there is an agenda. Unfortunately it would seem that the agenda has come of the rails.....for the time being anyway.
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Old 20th Oct 2015, 05:58
  #888 (permalink)  
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That's what I've been trying to work out...what is the agenda?
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Old 20th Oct 2015, 06:05
  #889 (permalink)  
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I wouldn't, generally, recommend any Murdoch rag.....however, yesterday I read the ST magazine...in passing so to speak.

I would suggest you try and find a copy.......reality may then begin to permeate you "thinking".
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Old 20th Oct 2015, 06:07
  #890 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SOPS View Post
That's what I've been trying to work out...what is the agenda?
Same thing Commies do every night. Try to destroy the West.
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Old 20th Oct 2015, 07:05
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MG23, Germany, like all countries in western Europe, is reproducing far under what is accepted as the 'minimum sustainable rate' of 2.11. I think Italy is as low as 1.2, and Germany around 1.6 (This is even after taking in to account the Muslim populations of these countries, where the rate is as high as 8+, so in fact, the figures quoted for the non muslim population are even more alarming.)

I honestly think that Frau Merkel has been advised by some closeted 'experts' within the halls of a bureaucracy that never gets out to see the real world that allowing all these young people in will address Germany's - and all of Europe's - problem of too low reproduction rates. They honestly think that all these new 'workers' will provide the manpower to maintain the 'welfare for all' experiment into the Baby Boomers' old age.

Whether they are correct and more far-sighted than all the conservative reactionaries posting here remains to be seen. I include myself in that latter category, who think that irreconcilable differences in the attitudes of many if not most of these newcomers as to how a society should run will mean that the negative effects of their acceptance into Europe will far outweigh the positives - not just for the original inhabitants of Europe but for the newcomers as well.

If I may be permitted to draw an analogy. European society operates pretty smoothly because of traditions and shared experiences stretching back hundreds if not thousands of years. It wasn't always smooth - far from it. Not too many years ago, there were quite horrible times for those Europeans unfortunate enough to be born into them. (The last really big 'bad time' was only 70 years ago, with another small bad time only 25 years ago for those unfortunate enough t be living in the former Yugoslavia.)

So Europe today runs smoothly because the vast majority of its population CHOOSES to obey a set of rules they have grown up with. There's a criminal element who don't obey some of those rules, but as a percentage of the overall population, that element is small enough to allow the system to still function. If you like, the law-abiding majority have come to a tacit agreement with the police to obey them and the rules the police enforce.

But what would happen if, overnight, a large percentage of that law-abiding population - say 15% - chose not to obey the police? What if the traffic lights went out - (not an unreasonable scenario with power shortages possible thanks to Frau Merkel's decision after Fukoshima to close down nuclear power stations in Germany) - and drivers simply refused to obey the directions of the police put on point duty to keep traffic flowing?

What if the police set up a breath testing station on the side of the road and drivers simply refused to pull over?

What if the police came to a house to arrest a suspect for a serious crime and ten of fifteen of his neighbours came out onto the street and told the police to bugger off - possibly throwing stones and bricks at the squad car? (Hmmmm... aren't there widespread reports of exactly that happening already in certain parts of Europe? To ambulance and firemen as well as police?)

In the first two cases, what could the police in their current manifestation do? They might manage to arrest one driver, but even that's debatable if they're not willing to literally shoot out his tyres of run him off the road.

My point is, Europe (along with Canada, the USA and Australia) is importing a huge number of people, quite a few of whom have already clearly demonstrated that they are not willing to enter into this 'contract' with the host country and that host country's police and legal system. In fact, the only thing they want to do with the authorities of their host country is to take - without first giving anything - the never ending welfare, medical attention and housing that that host nation (they insist) MUST provide them.

I think Frau Merkel's got it horribly wrong, but I can't say how much I hope I'm 100% wrong and that she hasn't.

Last edited by MTOW; 20th Oct 2015 at 07:17.
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Old 20th Oct 2015, 07:05
  #892 (permalink)  
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Numbers increasing, not falling, even as winter arrives. Wait for the deaths and violence once snow falls. Those freezing won't respect law and private property if their wives and children start dying.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/20/wo...kans.html?_r=0
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Old 20th Oct 2015, 07:41
  #893 (permalink)  
 
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The agenda appears to belong to the UN. By UN I am referring to the what Kissinger called the UN. Uppity ........
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Old 20th Oct 2015, 08:40
  #894 (permalink)  
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And these new comers are going to fit right in with the host countries customs and rules.....not.

MPs want answers on refugee child brides as 20 head for Ter Apel - DutchNews.nl
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Old 20th Oct 2015, 09:19
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SOPS ...did I read the Dutch report correctly? Is it legal in Holland for 13,14 and 15 year old girls to be married, as long as they are married in their country of origin, something which may be difficult to prove given that the authorities have no idea where most migrants originate from as they do not all have bona fide paperwork.
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Old 20th Oct 2015, 10:10
  #896 (permalink)  
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You read correctly bos, however they are changing the law to correct this. They will only recognise marriage in those over 18 years of age. To be fair, I don't think the law as originally written was meant to recognise marriages of 12 year olds, which is nothing more than child abuse. I think it was more to recognise marriages that are legal in say, Australia, where it is legal for a 16 year old to get married, as long as the partner is 18.

I have had read in other Dutch media, that these 'brides' are be being seperate from their 'husbands'.

( in the interests of disclosure, I lived in Holland for 18 years, so like to keep up to date on what is going on there.)
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Old 20th Oct 2015, 13:38
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Originally Posted by MTOW View Post
MG23, Germany, like all countries in western Europe, is reproducing far under what is accepted as the 'minimum sustainable rate' of 2.11.
Yes, and?

1. We had massive population growth over the last century, because we needed workers for industrial jobs. The jobs which haven't already gone to other countries are going to be automated away. What do you think these people are going to do?

2. If you really do need them, increasing population is essentially trivial. Just change the incentives, so people benefit from having more kids. China massively increased its population in a few decades under Mao, to the point that they suddenly had to impose their single child policy.
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Old 20th Oct 2015, 23:41
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MiG, I think MTOW is referring to the commonly held assertion in the field of Economics that if a population doesn't replace itself, the Ponzi Scheme that is a national welfare for all system (as most western European nations hold as untouchable Holy Writ since the recovery after WW2) cannot remain sustainable. (I use the term 'Ponzi Scheme' in that it relies upon later generations to maintain the system and generate the wealth that will be consumed by the current generation in their old age.)

I think most would agree that it would be a better world if there were far fewer mouths to feed. But who's going to volunteer to be a 'cullee' rather than a culler in any such culling?

The problem over the last few decades had been that the population in those parts of the world that can feed itself comfortably is reducing while the population in those parts of the world that cannot is going through the roof - to the point we see today in Europe where a sizeable proportion of the population that can't feed itself is quite literally transplanting itself to that part of the world that can feed ITSELF to be fed, housed and cared for by the taxpayers of those host nations.

If we reduce what we're seeing in Europe today to a personal level, if every individual in the West provided as much as he or she possibly could, leaving nothing for him or herself but the absolute basics, to feed and house the many millions who wish for the Good Life Europe provides, even Bill Gates would eventually have to say "That's it; I've run out of bedrooms and cash and I can feed no more." And when Bill gates reached that point, there would still be BILLIONS in and from the Third World who could not be provided for.

Europe is getting very close to that point, particularly if it cannot bring itself to say that universal welfare, medical care and housing for every uninvited 'refugee' that comes to Europe simply must be provided. It's not just a question of the money running out. Eventually, what money can buy, the basics - food, heating and roof space will run out and there will be no more nor any way to reproduce it.

And when we reach that point, it becomes a matter of survival of the fittest. The stronger take from the weak. And many if not most of those currently flooding in to Europe come from societies where that's already a way of life, so they'll be far better mentally attuned to re-adopting that way of life than most Europeans will be. (That's if they ever abandon it.)

For the Europeans' sake, I hope they're fast learners.

There's only one certainty (and it's a phrase a few have used here already): it isn't going to be pretty.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 00:12
  #899 (permalink)  
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You can't save everyone. It's time for Europe to get a backbone and close the borders, using force if necessary. The fluffs will have a meltdown, but the fluffs have bought on the near destruction of Europe in the first place.

This invasion has to stop. Europe will collapse if it doesn't.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 02:27
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Originally Posted by Wiley View Post
MiG, I think MTOW is referring to the commonly held assertion in the field of Economics that if a population doesn't replace itself, the Ponzi Scheme that is a national welfare for all system (as most western European nations hold as untouchable Holy Writ since the recovery after WW2) cannot remain sustainable.
Yes, but the welfare state is doomed, regardless. You can import millions of third-worlders into Europe, but, even if they don't just go straight on welfare and accelerate its demise, there are less and less unskilled jobs for them to do. Even McDonalds' is automating, as teenager workers now cost too much.

It's also the main reason Europeans don't have kids. Our ancestors had kids, because they needed kids to look after them when they got old. The welfare state promised that someone else's kids would look after you, so you didn't need your own.

The problem is that someone else wasn't having kids, either.

And, let's not forget, that, when I was a kid, the left were shouting OVERPOPULATION! OVERPOPULATION! OVERPOPULATION! all the time, and making fun of families that had lots of kids. If there's a problem, it's one they've created. That's why their only attempts to 'solve' it involve doubling down on the insanity. They'll never admit they've been wrong for decades. That way lies madness.
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