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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 27th Sep 2019, 20:49
  #19401 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
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It costs £1.50 to leave Cornwall.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 21:14
  #19402 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ChrisVJ View Post
Build the wall. Then impose a $10 fee for foreigners crossing. $50 for a monthly pass, $50 for processing the first monthly pass.

Other countries do it, why can't the USA?

And before you say only Asian countries do that, (most of them do and some have a fees for leaving!) it cost us $60 odd each to get into Australia. (Though you can do it cheaper if you do it well ahead on the internet.)
As a Norwegian I will get a visa to Australia free of charge, and for Indonesia, the Philippines, Thailand and Malaysia I don't need a visa at at all. Can't remember the rest of SEA, China, India, Nepal or Taiwan.
Different for Canadians?
Per
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 22:24
  #19403 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
Impeaching is one thing.
Convicting and removing is another.
Agreed. The process of impeachment leading to removal from office was made exceedingly difficult by the founding fathers. Only two US Presidents have ever been impeached, Andrew Jackson and Bill Clinton. Neither were removed from office. Richard Nixon resigned the presidency before an impeachment vote was taken in the House of Representatives. Nixon saw the hand writing on the wall. Removal of Trump from office probably will not happen, but he may well be impeached. That will ruin his legacy no matter what if any accomplishments he had while being POTUS, one term or two terms.

Most people don't know that the Director of National Intelligence is in a cabinet level position, appointed by the President and reporting directly to him. He is the leader of the broader IC (Intelligence Community) made up of 17 intelligence gathering agencies. The only one that reports directly to him is the CIA. All others report to their respective Department heads. He is responsible for providing the daily intelligence briefing to the President. So Joseph Maguire, the Acting Director in this role, upon receiving the whistleblower's complaint probably discussed it with some of his peers such as William Barr, US Attorney General, and others for advice. But, he was the one to deliver the news to his boss, DJT. He would also have been the one to deliver the complaint to Congress in the time allotted by the Whistleblower Law, but he didn't do that and I would suspect he received directions to hold back by the WH. Maguire was caught in a trap.

What has become interesting was Trump's remark that the whistleblower would more or less be like a spy in yesteryears. And then he remarked back then you know what they did to spies... Well today it is believed in Washington circles the whistleblower is a CIA agent.

Last edited by Turbine D; 27th Sep 2019 at 22:27. Reason: spelling
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 22:35
  #19404 (permalink)  
 
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Ancient Mariner said...."As a Norwegian I will get a visa to Australia free of charge, and for Indonesia, the Philippines, Thailand and Malaysia I don't need a visa at at all. Can't remember the rest of SEA, China, India, Nepal or Taiwan.
Different for Canadians?"

Canadian passport holders do not need a visa to enter the U.S.A., unless we intend to take up employment.
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Old 27th Sep 2019, 22:49
  #19405 (permalink)  
 
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There is a big difference, Turbine, between the impeachments of Johnson and Clinton, versus Trump.

In Trump's case, the Democrats were determined, from the day of his election, to seek his removal, as they considered his election to be not legitimate. Once they reached a majority in the House, it was simply a matter of time before they would impeach Trump.

Now, however, in this polarized environment just about everyone has made up their mind already. The Democrats will vote to impeach in unanimity. There may be a couple of Repubs who join in, if they think it will help their own re-election case.

At the Senate, there are a few neverTrumper Republicans, like Romney, but getting a 2/3 majority just isn't going to happen.

Similarly, when it comes to individual voters for the Presidency, I predict that Trump supporters will vote for him and Trump haters will not, and there will be little to no effect of this political stunt on his re-election.
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 00:03
  #19406 (permalink)  
 
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Nixon resigned once it became apparent that ⅔ of the Senate would convict. It took over two years from the Watergate break-in to Nixon's resignation. It took a long time to pull together the evidence.

In this this case, it seems the evidence is readily to hand.

But the prospect of ​​​​20 out of 53 GOP senators turning against Trump at present looks dim.

Clinton's trial turned out poorly for the GOP in the next election. But there's a different between pecadillos and attempting to bribe a foreign head of state to dig up dirt on a political rival. GOP senators may come to decide their seats are safer with Pence as president
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 00:09
  #19407 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
There is a big difference, Turbine, between the impeachments of Johnson and Clinton, versus Trump.

In Trump's case, the Democrats were determined, from the day of his election, to seek his removal, as they considered his election to be not legitimate. Once they reached a majority in the House, it was simply a matter of time before they would impeach Trump.

Now, however, in this polarized environment just about everyone has made up their mind already. The Democrats will vote to impeach in unanimity. There may be a couple of Repubs who join in, if they think it will help their own re-election case.

At the Senate, there are a few neverTrumper Republicans, like Romney, but getting a 2/3 majority just isn't going to happen.

Similarly, when it comes to individual voters for the Presidency, I predict that Trump supporters will vote for him and Trump haters will not, and there will be little to no effect of this political stunt on his re-election.
You're probably right about what will happen, but you are ignoring one thing. This Ukraine stunt is just the tip of the iceberg and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of other sleazy stuff starts to emerge. We know right now that other conversations were hidden on the separate computer system reserved for actual secret stuff, not political activity. Once the avalanche starts it will be hard to stop as more and more people see the Emperor has no clothes, morals, ethics, empathy, or self awareness. It seems quite a few in the administration were disturbed by the call(s) and knew what they represented. Watergate took time to get going and this is happening faster. The impeachment is an opportunity to expose a lot of bad actors and actions and will not be kind to Mr. T.
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 02:41
  #19408 (permalink)  
 
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I think the Dimmocrats ultimate target here isn't Trump but Joe Biden. When the dust has settled from this episode, Trump will still be POTUS and awaiting the next allegations of whatever, but Biden still has some explaining to do with his threat to withhold a loan if a Ukranian prosecutor wasn't fired. If that's not interfering in another country's affairs I don't know what is. It's a round about way of shifting Biden out of the Presidential race.
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 05:40
  #19409 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pisstin broke View Post
I think the Dimmocrats ultimate target here isn't Trump but Joe Biden. When the dust has settled from this episode, Trump will still be POTUS and awaiting the next allegations of whatever, but Biden still has some explaining to do with his threat to withhold a loan if a Ukranian prosecutor wasn't fired. If that's not interfering in another country's affairs I don't know what is. It's a round about way of shifting Biden out of the Presidential race.
How's the KoolAid tasting ? This is an attempt to do a Hillary on Biden, who I hope is not the Democratic candidate as he is too old, as is Trump, and an attempt to run the same play in 2020 as in 2016. Ain't gonna work this time. Mr. Trump appears to be on medication or in the early stages of Alzheimer's with his inability to actually communicate. It's getting more and more obvious he (Trump) is getting stuck in some sort of cycle where he is not able to process new information. Really, watch this guy and tell me he should be President. He's losing it and the process will speed up. At the UN he looked and sounded like he was drugged. I don't think he is able to process information. He's turning into (or probably was) an idiot uncle you just want to have go away at Thanksgiving. At this stage things, unlike wine, don't get better with age.....

Edited to add: We are in Bizzaro World and the majority of us here in the US of A are gritting our teeth, reading the tweets of an idiot, and hoping for a good outcome. Trump lost the election by 3,000,000 votes and we really don't like him.
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 06:32
  #19410 (permalink)  
 
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The performance I'm looking forward to November 2020 is that of Rachel Maddow.
Will they actually televise her wetting her pants or will they cut away to an ad break?
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 14:22
  #19411 (permalink)  
 
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obgraham,
At the Senate, there are a few never Trumper Republicans, like Romney, but getting a 2/3 majority just isn't going to happen.
In case you missed it in my post:
Removal of Trump from office probably will not happen, but he may well be impeached.
Thanks for confirming what I already had said...
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 14:56
  #19412 (permalink)  
 
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Joseph Wilson, the former ambassador who set off a political firestorm by disputing U.S. intelligence used to justify the 2003 Iraq invasion, died Friday, according to his ex-wife. He was 69. His former wife, Valerie Plame, whose identity as a CIA operative was exposed days after Wilson's criticism of U.S. intelligence that Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was attempting to purchase uranium. The leak of Plame's covert identity was a scandal for the administration of President George W. Bush that led to the conviction of vice presidential aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby for lying to investigators and obstruction of justice.
BTW,
President Donald Trump pardoned Libby in 2018.
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 15:47
  #19413 (permalink)  
 
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Then, Turbine, you are agreeing that this whole impeaching business is a useless publicity exercise.

Aimed, IMHO, at the 2020 election.
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 16:12
  #19414 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
Then, Turbine, you are agreeing that this whole impeaching business is a useless publicity exercise.
Aimed, IMHO, at the 2020 election.

Are you saying obgraham, true of the Clinton impeachment, a useless publicity exercise as well?
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 16:57
  #19415 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
Are you saying obgraham, true of the Clinton impeachment, a useless publicity exercise as well?
Though the Clinton impeachment was, yes, mostly an exercise in political publicity, it was not the same situation, Turbine. At the Clinton trial, Republicans were in the majority, 55-45, holding out some chance, however small, for conviction (67 votes needed, obviously). In this case, Democrats are not even in the majority. Odds of conviction are zero or even less, and Democrats know it.

One might argue, in fact that whereas NO president has ever been removed from office via impeachment, that every effort to impeach is an exercise in political grandstanding.
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 19:33
  #19416 (permalink)  
 
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pisstin,
Trump will still be POTUS and awaiting the next allegations of whatever, but Biden still has some explaining to do with his threat to withhold a loan if a Ukranian prosecutor wasn't fired. If that's not interfering in another country's affairs I don't know what is.
Gosh, gee, the United States never interferes in another country's affairs, do they?

Not to fret too much pisstin, Trump's reelection campaign is taking up your grievance by accusing Democrats of trying to "steal" the 2020 election in a new ad airing in a $10 million television and digital buy next week. The ad also attacks Democrat Biden, highlighting his efforts as vice president to make U.S. aid to Ukraine contingent on that country firing a prosecutor believed to be corrupt. The ad claims that the fired prosecutor was investigating the former vice president's son.

But, If you review the history at that time, In fact, the Ukraine prosecutor had failed to pursue any major anti-corruption investigations, leaving Ukraine's international donors deeply frustrated. In pressing for the prosecutor's ouster, Biden was representing the official position of the U.S. government, which was shared by other Western allies and many in Ukraine.
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 00:16
  #19417 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
pisstin,

Gosh, gee, the United States never interferes in another country's affairs, do they?

Not to fret too much pisstin, Trump's reelection campaign is taking up your grievance by accusing Democrats of trying to "steal" the 2020 election in a new ad airing in a $10 million television and digital buy next week. The ad also attacks Democrat Biden, highlighting his efforts as vice president to make U.S. aid to Ukraine contingent on that country firing a prosecutor believed to be corrupt. The ad claims that the fired prosecutor was investigating the former vice president's son.

But, If you review the history at that time, In fact, the Ukraine prosecutor had failed to pursue any major anti-corruption investigations, leaving Ukraine's international donors deeply frustrated. In pressing for the prosecutor's ouster, Biden was representing the official position of the U.S. government, which was shared by other Western allies and many in Ukraine.
Well one investigation Shokin was conducting was into Burisma Holdings who were paying Bidens' son $50,000 a month.
That doesn't raise your eyebrows even just a little bit?
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 02:17
  #19418 (permalink)  
 
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The Sixth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right ... to be confronted with the witnesses against him". "Hearsay is a statement, other than one made by the declarant while testifying at the trial or hearing, offered in evidence to prove the truth of the matter asserted."[1] Per Federal Rule of Evidence 801(d)(2)(a), a statement made by a defendant is admissible as evidence only if it is exculpatory; exculpatory statements made to an investigator are hearsay and therefore may not be admitted as evidence in court, unless the defendant testifies.[3] When an out-of-court statement offered as evidence contains another out-of-court statement it is called double hearsay, and both layers of hearsay must be found separately admissible.

There is of course, more to this than the above simple explanation however, when the person(s) making the statements which are repeated as hearsay are then called as witnesses to substantiate their statements they are then open to question, possible charges of passing on confidential/secret/top secret information, etc.

The defendant, President Trump, etc, are able to question each and all of the accusations.

This could well lead to charges of subversion, treason or other misdemeanors.

When faced with these serious repercussions it will be interesting to watch and see how dedicated those determined to bring President Trump down, destroy the USA Democratic system are?
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 04:54
  #19419 (permalink)  
 
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With only a year to the election won't the Democrats in the House just draw out the inquiry so that it never moves forward to the actual presentation of papers?

The Democrats are in a zugzwang here and even after they move they will probably find themselves in another one shortly thereafter.

It is almost a fact at this point that there is nothing that Trump does that will peel off Republican support--probably including supporting hostile acts against his own country. Seriously, what possibly could crack support?

Sadly, it looks like four more years of his child in a high chair routine.
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 07:03
  #19420 (permalink)  
 
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Iíll say it now, Biden is not electable. I said Hillary wasnít electable way back when. But then, Hillary got the popular vote of 3 million more than Trump. The Electoral College sealed the deal against Hillary, IMO. Trump, who could have predicated a man so very the worldwide caricature of an American? Loud, vulgar, crude, ignorant, self-aggrandizing, imperious....well......trumpian. The population held up a mirror and elected it.

My family has been solid, middle of the road Republicans and I can feel them turning in their graves. Trump is not us. Iím grateful theyíre not here to witness this creature in action.
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