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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 27th Jul 2019, 14:10
  #19121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle America
Age: 79
Posts: 1,136
Eclectic,
Trump, as POTUS, needs to explain to the American people what he is doing. Simpler language is understood by more people.
And Trump does this by lying, exaggerating and bullshitting, rarely telling the truth.

It is impossible for someone to lie unless he thinks he knows the truth. Producing
bullshit requires no such conviction. A person who lies is thereby responding to
the truth, and he is to that extent respectful of it. When an honest man speaks, he
says only what he believes to be true; and for the liar, it is correspondingly
indispensable that he considers his statements to be false. For the bullshitter,
however, all these bets are off: he is neither on the side of the true nor on the side
of the false. His eye is not on the facts at all, as the eyes of the honest man and of
the liar are, except insofar as they may be pertinent to his interest in getting away
with what he says. He does not care whether the things he says describe reality
correctly. He just picks them out, or makes them up, to suit his purpose.
For example, Trump called James Comey a liar, because to Trump all criticism is a lie. Trump lied to Forbes Magazine to get onto the Forbes 400 listing of the wealthiest people in the world. Forbes was conned. In fact, Trump had zero equity in his father’s company when he claimed he did. According to Fred’s will, the father retained legal ownership of his residential empire until his death in 1999, at which point he left it to be divided between his four surviving children and some of his grandchildren. That explains why, after Trump’s companies went bankrupt in the early 1990s, he borrowed $30 million from his siblings, secured by an estimated $35 million share of his future inheritance, according to three sources in Tim O’Brien’s 2005 biography, "TrumpNation". He could have used his own assets as collateral if he’d had any worth that amount, but he didn’t.

Another example, Trump claimed he had bought the Barbizon Plaza Hotel and the adjoining 100 Central Park South for just $13 million, a steal. Facts were, tucked away on Page 63 of the Casino Commission report was a section describing Trump’s purchase of the property for $65 million, facilitated by a $50 million loan to Trump by Chase Manhattan Bank. As with many of his buildings, Trump’s debt was far higher, and his true equity far lower, than he claimed. All Trump lies...

Now I could go on and on, but a fact: Trump has never had a come to Jesus meeting promising never to knowingly lie, exaggerate or bullshit. "A lie occurs any time you intentionally try to mislead someone." The most stunning way Trump's lies differ is in their cruelty. An astonishing 50 percent of Trump's lies are hurtful or disparaging. For example, he proclaimed that John Brennan, James Clapper and James Comey, all career intelligence or law enforcement officials, as "Political Hacks". Other Trump lies are typically told both to belittle others and enhance himself. Trump always lashes out when he is cornered. Trump always wants to put on a show, governing matters less to him. As a result many of us no longer give Trump the benefit of the doubt that we usually give so readily.

Last edited by Turbine D; 27th Jul 2019 at 14:18. Reason: word correction
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 14:38
  #19122 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
. An astonishing 50 percent of Trump's lies are hurtful or disparaging. For example, he proclaimed that John Brennan, James Clapper and James Comey, all career intelligence or law enforcement officials, as "Political Hacks". Other Trump lies are typically told both to belittle others and enhance himself. Trump always lashes out when he is cornered. Trump always wants to put on a show, governing matters less to him. As a result many of us no longer give Trump the benefit of the doubt that we usually give so readily.
1) Politics is tough.
2) If public servants engage in politics then they become fair game. This recently happened to Olly Robbins in the UK.
3) Your "lies" are mostly Trump embellishing his position. A fair and widely used tactic in business.
4) The lies told by the media are far more persistent and far more egregious. They are trying to depose a democratically elected POTUS with their lies.
.


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Old 27th Jul 2019, 14:45
  #19123 (permalink)  
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Is Trump a lying crook who positions his family to the top of the heap and rakes in billions of dollars while pretending to be an angel on horseback? Perhaps but in the meantime he keeps peace on the block and ensures that no other low down skunks enter the neighbourhood. When pushed for a little back up muscle here and there he resorts to old and trusted allies, like the Brits and eschews the more slippery slimy elements of the underworld such as those found south of Panama. He's a true Mafioso, old style Don. Give him his credit, he's achieved a certain world stability. When he goes, he'll probably . be replaced by a revisionist Democrat or a Communista and that'll be the end of the USA as a world influence for peace and stability, no matter its minor faults of today.
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 14:55
  #19124 (permalink)  
 
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Eclectic,
And you really ought to stop for a second and actually analyse what Trump does.
Here are some lists for you: President Donald J. Trump's Accomplishments List | MAGA PILL
You really do need to practice more on the UK Hamsterwheel to become credible on the US Hamsterwheel:

Trump tweeted Saturday night a link to a sycophantic website that traffics in conspiracy theories and has aligned itself to the alt-right and white nationalist movements. Here’s the Trump tweet, which promotes MAGAPILL.com’s “President Donald Trump Accomplishment List”. Trump tweeted: “Wow! I didn’t know we did so much. Wish the Fake News would report. Thank you. twitter.com/magnapill

Now I always have had a tendency to check out internet sites that seem suspicious to me. Here is what The Washington Examiner, a US Conservative News site had to say about Magapill:

The website’s name, MAGAPILL, references Trump’s campaign slogan “Make America Great Again” along with the “red pill” concept popular among the online alt-right and white nationalist movements. Taking a red pill in these circles refers to being awakened to the “reality” of the alt-right worldview, an allusion to a plot device in the 1999 science fiction film The Matrix.

MAGAPILL.com’s website appears to consist of links to archived news items from mainstream media outlets touting successes of the Trump presidency. “MAGAPILL is here to ensure that President Trump’s Legacy is properly documented,” reads the site’s about page. “It’s been recently reported that 95% of the News Media’s coverage of Trump is Negative, while only 5% is positive. This is the definition of an unfair bias and one of the main reasons why everyday American’s confidence in the ‘Main Stream’ media is at an all time low.”


A number of other old pages at the domain are inaccessible, but the website’s Twitter page remains active, tweeting out a mix of conspiracy theories, Fox News videos, news articles from mainstream outlets, and retweets of President Trump. In one recent tweet, MAGAPILL put out an unsourced image rife with outlandish conspiracies about the people and entities who control our institutions.
The image includes levels of the supposed conspiracy, each with an image of a rabbit going down a hole to the next level (another Matrix/alt-right allusion). Among the conspiracies listed are: “false flag terrorism”, genetically modified crops, the use of “algorithmic censorship” of social media, “rogue intel factions” at the CIA and Mossad, a “network of global corporate control”, “Luciferian rituals”, secret societies like the Knights Templar and the Jesuits, and “trauma based mind control.” At the bottom of the entire conspiracy are the “Overlords” from “Bloodline Families” that include the aristocracy and royalty, the papacy, and the banking families, all of whom apparently practice a Luciferian religion that worships “the Dark Side through rituals, including child/human sacrifice.”

And that’s just one tweet. Among the other crazy and baseless conspiracy theories MAGAPILL has promoted include the politically motivated murder of DNC employee Seth Rich, a cabal of members of Congress involved in satanic rituals and child sex abuse, and the existence of an anonymous internet poster with “Q-level” security clearance who is working to bring down the world order.

The tweet from President Trump appears to have brought an unprecedented amount of traffic to the bare-bones MAGAPILL website— enough to temporarily crash it.

Trump’s promotion of a fake-news site came shortly after another tweet of his blasting CNN’s international channel as “fake news.” The president regularly lobs this epithet at any legitimate news organization that he says is unfair or wrong in its coverage of him.
Maybe you need to do more checking before you type...
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 15:17
  #19125 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
Maybe you need to do more checking before you type...
People here on JB frequently reference the BBC, Guardian and Independent..
All totally discredited left wing peddlers of fake news.
What is sauce for the goose................
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 15:38
  #19126 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
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Originally Posted by Eclectic View Post
People here on JB frequently reference the BBC, Guardian and Independent..
All totally discredited left wing peddlers of fake news.
Discredited by you and others of the same ilk. You should be thankful that we have freedom of the press, a cornerstone of democracy.
Beware of the likes of JRM dictating the use of language, that's Newspeak.

Last edited by hiflymk3; 27th Jul 2019 at 15:52.
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 16:04
  #19127 (permalink)  
 
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The entertainment value of this thread just went up by two points. Thank you, you know who you are.
Per
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 16:16
  #19128 (permalink)  
 
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cavortingcheetah,
Give him his credit, he's achieved a certain world stability. When he goes, he'll probably . be replaced by a revisionist Democrat or a Communista and that'll be the end of the USA as a world influence for peace and stability, no matter its minor faults of today.
Since the 1980s, Trump has changed political affiliations five times. Trump registered for the first time in New York as a Republican in July 1987, only to dump the Republican Party more than a decade later for the Independence Party in October 1999, according to the New York City Board of Elections. In August 2001, Trump enrolled as a Democrat. Eight years later, Trump reenrolled as a Republican. After only two years as a registered Republican, Trump left the Party again in December 2011 by marking a box that indicated, “I do not wish to enroll in a party.” So then he became a Republican again in April 2012 as he didn't think he could beat Hillary Clinton in a Democratic Party primary, but thought he could win on the Republican side of the ledger. When it come to Party, Trump has no stability.

But the point that I want to make to you is that England had a person, reminiscent of the current Kim & Trump meetings that have gone nowhere, but have increased tensions in that region of the globe.

Neville Chamberlain truly believed that it would be possible to reach a settlement with Nazi Germany. To be sure, his views on Hitler altered with events. To one of his sisters he would write that he thought the peace of the world depended on one man and that he was half-mad; and yet, following his first meeting with Hitler, he would write that he thought the German leader was a man of his word, and that he could be trusted. (Trump praised Kim in a similar manner)

Rather than an exercise in traditional diplomacy, the three meetings they had to solve the Sudetenland Crisis of September 1938 seemed to be taken from scenes of the Godfather. Hitler dictated terms and warned that if these were not accepted, he would deploy force to obtain them. To be sure, Hitler could be flexible: rather than send the German army to the Sudetenland on a certain date, for example, he would consent to do so a few days later. When faced with a gun, this kind of concession can be perceived to be a considerable step forward. The problem was not that Chamberlain was prepared to go along with this charade, but that he did so willingly, believing he had achieved a major breakthrough, or, as he said, "Peace in our time."

We have yet to see what Trump is really made of under the gun other than his tweets, his reversals from one day to the next, his private meetings with foreign country leaders with no one present on the US side except Trump and maybe a translator. So we don't know what Trump will do to reverse a losing international situation, will he agree to concessions to enable him to check off a win in his mind? Peace and stability in our time? We will see. Trump is all about winning.
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 16:33
  #19129 (permalink)  
 
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Trump is all about winning.
Doesn't matter to him what quality the win has.
I haven't seen any quality wins. I see a lot of ham-fisted works in progress without solid plans. (Pls. don't mention the economy. It was already strong and keeps on trundling along like the massive thing it is. Will take a series of colossal blunders to send it significantly spiraling down. Although, I don't put that past him.)
And of course in trump's bizzaro world, everything is called a win even the obvious losses, you just manipulate the words and add a bunch of lies.
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 16:47
  #19130 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
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“Give him his credit, he's achieved a certain world stability”

US forces based in over 70 countries, ongoing military operations in at least 13 countries, probably considerably more that we don’t hear about.

At least 60,000 dead civilians in one conflict alone.

The serious threat of broader conflict in South America, the Persian Gulf and East Asia has increased in the past 2 years.

And you call this stability?

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Old 27th Jul 2019, 17:03
  #19131 (permalink)  
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(Trump is all about winning).
Absolutely or Genau, as my friend Adolph would have said, well, my friend when he was a house painter and I needed one.
That's been one of the problems with Britain over the least three years. The government has run a European appeasement campaign second only to Chamberlain's . Nothing more craven that Hammond, Grieve and Soubry has been seen since the British stitched up Czechoslovakia in 1938, giving the country to Hitler and prompting Jan Masaryk's great and personally delivered condemnation of Chamberlain.
Trump has done no such thing, having given his American electorate almost exactly what he said he would. Much is being made at the moment of climate control and the rape of the environment. I expect that on balance there is some justification for paying some slight attention to those who call for a reasonable moderation in consumerism, but certainly not at the expense of our own economies, especially when the Indians and Orientals won't come to the table to smoke the peace pipe.All that Trump has done is to walk away from a conference that the most pollutant countries of the world refuse to attend. It's not surprising that he is condemned by those whose environmentalism is all hat and no cattle.
Trump stood up to Kim and faced down a nuclear conflagration that would have created infinitely more environmental damage than anything the Extreme Environmental jet set protesters could ever have dreamed. Next time you read of an American warship helping a tanker navigate through Hormuz, just reflect on how Hilary C would have handled matters as POTUS. Then go and fill your car up with rhubarb leaves. On a calmer and more leisurely note, you only have to marvel at the architectural brilliance of trump Towers in Chicago to realize that here is man who takes civic harmony seriously.
Someone mentioned UK Guardian? Were it not not printed in broadsheet it would be just another rag of an anti American paper. It has on its payroll two of the most bigoted journalists in the UK, Owen Jones and Polly Toynbee. Toynbee keeps a low profile but not so Jones who allows no one to stand in his way when it comes to his outpourings of journalistic hatred. Acid rain is a friendly environmental accident compared to Jones. One hopes to see him soon deported to the USA, even if on trumped up charges, along with Assange.
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 17:18
  #19132 (permalink)  
 
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At least 60,000 dead civilians in one conflict alone.
The serious threat of broader conflict in South America, the Persian Gulf and East Asia has increased in the past 2 years.
And you call this stability?
Where are these "60K dead civilians" that Trump has done?
Where is this "broader conflict in South America"?
Pulling out of the silly memorandum with Iran was a great accomplishment. Not getting anywhere with Trump, the Iranians turned to bum-fu**ing the Brits, who seemed to not mind being receptive.
East Asia is in far better shape peace-wise than it has been for 70 years, though it is still a hotbed of sabre-rattling, be it Norky or Chicom.

Yes, we're heading toward stability. Not there yet, but gaining.
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 17:31
  #19133 (permalink)  
 
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I regret that we're not. Not with the terrorist threats lurking, waiting, planning that better than the last one.
Nothing has been solved with them, they still have that higher, most righteous calling and infiltration is rampant.
Do not be deceived by quiet. Remember the chaos.

And then there are all those other conflicts of various definitions, just treading water at best. Confidence is not high.
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 17:46
  #19134 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Eclectic View Post
People here on JB frequently reference the BBC, Guardian and Independent..
All totally discredited left wing peddlers of fake news.
Seriously? That crank stuff might go down well on some troll board of moronic bilge, but to make a point on this thread, irrespective of one's views, you need to be a bit more rigorous.

Elevate the debate. Don't cheapen it.

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Old 27th Jul 2019, 17:59
  #19135 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
East Asia is in far better shape peace-wise than it has been for 70 years, though it is still a hotbed of sabre-rattling, be it Norky or Chicom.
Don't fall into the trap of "average smoothing."

I certainly hope the region remains peaceful. I am sure you have seen the circle over east Asia that shows that more of the world's population lives inside its borders as opposed to outside. Plus, even the best minds can only attempt to divine China's ambitions. China probably doesn't even know. As the French say, the appetite comes with the eating and their plans constantly evolve.

While I actually, to an extent, supported Trump's attempt to engage with the North Korean leadership, I believe that he has mishandled the situation and is getting nutmeged. Some true and deft skill might be able to weave something from these thin threads, but I have not seen much of a garmet quite yet.

Asia might appear to be quiescent, but it requires tge West's attention. I will ask if you think Trump has the attention span and grasp of detail to guide the discussion there.
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 23:21
  #19136 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
Another excellent triumph coming up for El Trumpo.
The French exported €3.2 billion in wine and spirits to the US last year, up some 4% on 2017.

Macron has just signed off on a 3% digital tax that will affect US companies operating in France. Irritated by this piece of sharp protective trade fixing, our hero with the hairpiece is proposing to raise punitive tariffs on French wine and spirit imports.

This will soon enough hit the poor old grenouille grape grower who will not doubt retaliate by spreading vast amounts of animal excrement around the streets of Paris, where the mercury yesterday hit 40C! This is too, excellent news for the American wine industry, from whose grape roots all French wines originate anyway; anyone remember how French wines tasted pre Phylloxera ?

But then, the world forgets, that once upon a time Britain used to export wine to the Roman Empire and traces of vineyards are still visible in parts of Hampshire. Perhaps a trade war between Britain and France is what's needed to finally put the American wines up where they belong, not quite as good as the best Australian or, even better, the New Zealand wines, but getting close.

Wine: Politics and pleasure by the glassful. Santé and damnation to the Evil Empire!
Interesting point of view.
In your Trump’s adulation, you totally zapped this main issues of mammouth digital companies racking up millions and millions in countries without paying proper taxes (you know, like hiding behinds taxes loopholes that needs deep updates)
And to correct your narrow minded view, Macron wants: "a broad international agreement on a digital tax” He did it to get the momentum of this idea going.

About your example of French Wine and Spirits, sure it should be properly taxed as well. No problem with that.
Also, maybe it was already before hand, I don’t know.

This said, reading some of the replies above (Eclectic and the like) I think I should stop arguing.

I have discovered that once people are truly captivated in their ignorance, they are generally unwilling to let the facts interfere.

(Rick Drury's Flightlines "Paychecks", Airways April 2003)
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 23:58
  #19137 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Eclectic View Post
People here on JB frequently reference the BBC, Guardian and Independent..
All totally discredited left wing peddlers of fake news.
What is sauce for the goose................
Well that's a fascinating behavioral tell, when an view that differs so widely from your view of how the world works is dismissed as "All totally discredited left wing peddlers of fake news". Learning to tell the difference between lies and different opinions is obviously not a forte of the orange toddler or his acolytes. That nice Mr Goebbels would be pleased to see his art form in such wide usage after 80 years. Fake news indeed.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 05:49
  #19138 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uncle Fred View Post
Seriously? That crank stuff might go down well on some troll board of moronic bilge, but to make a point on this thread, irrespective of one's views, you need to be a bit more rigorous.

Elevate the debate. Don't cheapen it.

You believe this stuff?
Really?
.

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Old 28th Jul 2019, 06:59
  #19139 (permalink)  
 
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Does anybody here actually think that Trump's tweets about the city of Baltimore were evidence of racism.

I did read a tweet today about comparing it(or at least parts of it) to a third world country.

Is it racist to compare sections of Baltimore to a third world country?

Last edited by punkalouver; 28th Jul 2019 at 07:46.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 07:45
  #19140 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Chalk your rant up as someone who doesn’t fundamentally get US politics. Trump’s efforts are for domestic consumption, show a segment of the population not likely intent on voting for him that he cares enough to try to spring this yahoo from the big house. Gains him some good will with the black community. He did it before with university basketball players caught stealing in China.
Well, after calling for 4 non-white, female, congress members to return to whence the came, inconveniently forgetting 3 of them were born in the US, I can see the need for currying favour with those segments of the population. But what you're actually saying, is that large segments of the US population are so exceedingly ignorant they'll fall for this scam. I suppose that explains why they voted for Trump in the first place, 'cause it would take a certain kind of stupid to vote for a cretin of such gigantic dimensions.
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