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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 17th Jul 2019, 17:16
  #18961 (permalink)  
 
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 19:57
  #18962 (permalink)  
 
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“Are you claiming that Trump did NOT receive this Ellis Island Medal of Honor? Even Snopes, no fan of DJT, says the story and photo are true.”

The photograph of Trump with Ali and Parks is a great example of how the echo chamber works.

Eclectic published the photo, probably without actually researching the story or applying any critical analysis at all.

Then Obgraham jumps in to defend the story probably without actually researching the story or applying any critical analysis at all.

But fortunately we have PIF and TD, who did bother to conduct some research, point out that the story is not at all close to what it appears at first glance.

Its not a big deal, its a small issue that got a little out hand. Turns out Trump did not receive an award for helping inner city youth at all and now we can move on.

Is Trump A RACIST? Not sure, but his comments throughout the years have certainly been racist.

Trump’s racism is subtle, the birther movement, the comments made to an African American reporter on the White House Lawn. There are too many examples to list here but to argue that “It is genuinely laughable to think that Trump is racist” simply because he has posed for photographs with African Americans is in itself laughable.




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Old 17th Jul 2019, 20:52
  #18963 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Trump's racism was never subtle, but it was not as crass as it has lately become; I have to agree to that, at least.

When he discussed Charlottesville he tried to do a sort of phony balancing act, claiming that the anti-alt-right faction were demonstrating without a permit (not true) and that they also had been violent, thus provoking the alt-right violence (arguably not true, but it's hard, looking at a melee, to say who started it).

Trump was waffling on about beautiful statues, ignoring the historical figures those statues honored, people who fought against America to preserve a racist system, when you can't get any more racist than whites treating blacks as property to be bought, sold, beaten, and forced to work for no pay. Robert E. Lee, kindly looking old bloke, but pretty harsh towards blacks, so that having to look at him up there on his horse might put the mockers on a black family's stroll in the park. Just my guess, that.

Any reasonable person looking at a torch-light parade behind Nazi flags, with chants of "Jews will not replace us!" should have no trouble identifying a group of people, bigots, out for trouble who are pretty far from proper American values. Not Trump, though, because those bigots are among his core supporters; they like what he has to say, especially his coded speech, the "dog whistle" stuff. A guy who tells Alex Jones that he's doing good work, as Trump did, is not espousing mainstream American values. Of course, if we let Trump work his evil magic for much longer, then he might well be espousing what used to be a mainstream American value: racism. Bring on the bribery and corruption too, some other things that used to be pretty much normal in earlier times.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 20:54
  #18964 (permalink)  
 
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Obgraham jumps in to defend the story probably without actually researching the story or applying any critical analysis at all.
One more time, Oicur:
Are you claiming the photo (Trump, Parks, DiMaggio, Ali, Borge, and a woman I don't recognize -- NOT the cropped version) is somehow fake? You are entitled to your spin as to who else might have gotten the same award, and whether you think he deserved it, but facts is facts.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 21:02
  #18965 (permalink)  
 
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Let's be honest here, Chuks.

Can you tell me that in your time in Germany when you got into some loud political debate, nobody -- not even once -- told you the equivalent off "well if you sink eet is bad here, why don't you just shove off back to Amerika?" I certainly encountered that at times during my long status as a greencard holder in the US. It's just part of political discussion, I suspect in every country of the world.

That is precisely what Trump was posting in those tweets in which he did not refer to citizenship or race, but rather cultural assimilation.

Hell, even some of the bastions of leftist media agree with me:
Newsweek

But it does provide you with more silly things to be offended by, so there is that.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 22:32
  #18966 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
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The Stable Genius & Star Businessman

They say that the third generation following the creator of the family wealth is the generation where the family enterprise dissolves. But, in some cases it starts to slide down the hill in the second generation.

Unpaid Laborers
In 1983, a class-action lawsuit was filed against the Trump Organization concerning unpaid pension and medical obligations to labor unions that helped build his NYC towers. Trump had paid $774,000 to a window-cleaning company that employed undocumented Polish immigrants during the renovation of an adjoining building. According to the laborers, they were paid $4 an hour for 12-hour shifts, and were not told about asbestos in the structure.
Trump testified in 1990 he was unaware that 200 undocumented Polish immigrants, some of whom lived at the site during a 1980 transit strike, and worked round-the-clock shifts, were involved in the destruction of the Bonwit Teller building owned by Trump and to be eventually replace by the Trump Tower project. Trump said he rarely visited the demolition site and never noticed the laborers, who were visually distinct for their lack of hard hats. A labor consultant and FBI informant testified that Trump was aware of the illegal workers' status.
After the laborers filed for a mechanic's lien over unpaid wages, they said a Trump Organization lawyer threatened to have the Immigration and Naturalization Service deport them. A judge ruled in favor of the Polish laborers in 1991, saying that the organization had to pay the workers. The contractor was ultimately ordered to pay the laborers $254,000. The case went through several appeals by both sides as well as non-jury trials, and was reassigned to different judges several times. The original named plaintiff, plaintiffs' attorney, and two co-defendants, died during the litigation, leading Judge Kevin Duffy to compare it unfavorably to Charles Dickens' fictional case Jarndyce and Jarndyce in June 1998, when he was assigned the case after the death of the previous presiding judge. The lawsuit was ultimately settled in 1999, with its records sealed. In November 2017, U.S. District Judge Loretta A. Preska ordered the settlement documents unsealed. In the settlement, Trump agreed to pay a total of $1.375 million, which, according to the plaintiffs' lawyer, was the full amount that could have been recovered at trial.

This is just another example of Trump not having critical thinking capability, even in his supposed superb business dealmaking world. If Trump would have taken the $300 million his father gave to him and invested it in S&P 500 stocks, he would have more than doubled the fortune he claimed to have created on his own which was a Trump exaggeration to begin with.

BTW, Do you know that the Trump tower isn't nearly as tall by counting the number of floors? It is because Trump created a floor numbering scheme to make the Tower look taller than it really is. Floors 6 through 16 don't exist nor do floors 27, 28, and 29. Trump's lies, exaggerations and ego won over truth and facts as usual, just as it does today.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 22:48
  #18967 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
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obgraham,
The woman you don't recognize is Anita Bryant, an American entertainer. Only seasoned aged folks would recognize her.

Last edited by Turbine D; 17th Jul 2019 at 22:49. Reason: spacing
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 23:20
  #18968 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 73
Posts: 1,561
Political debate, German-style!

OB, have a look at this, maybe run it through Google Translate to get the gist: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heisenhof

Jürgen Rieger was an out-and-out neo-Nazi, an attorney with funding from former Nazis, and a conviction for grievous bodily harm. He got busted once for driving around in a genuine WWII-vintage Kübelwagen with SS runes as its unit markings. His explanation? He collected vintage vehicles. Uh-huh ....

One of Rieger's underlings, a guy who went by the nom de guerre of Jan Hus, had a car crash in this locale when the boot was found to be loaded with clubs studded with nails, brass knuckles, all sorts of toys; these people were a real physical threat in addition to their warped ideology. It was Rieger for the ideology and planning; his bovver boys were there to make up the heavy mob.

This Heisenhof was just down the road from our little village, and we were lucky that our retired Lutheran pastor got stuck right into Rieger and his troop of goons, since many villagers took the attitude that, well, he and his boys had not caused us any trouble. No, they raised hell, but not close to their chosen base; Rieger was smart enough to operate that way.

Pastor Haar organized demos, when the cops closed off the main road, the B215, so that we could march along it to the Heisenhof under police protection with neo-Nazi thugs snapping our pictures. (I don't know, maybe they wanted to remember us when it came to handing out Christmas presents.)

Rieger dropped dead after suffering a stroke and that was about that for our local nest of neo-Nazis, since he was the only one with brains and access to funding. Until then, though, things were sometimes a bit tense. My daughter helped organize against them at her Gymnasium, of course, and I said my piece and went on demos, but it was clear that many of our German neighbors just did not want any trouble, even if that meant keeping quiet about these jerks who were trying to drum up local support for their bigoted ideas.

I don't know how things might have worked out without Pastor Haar stepping right up to the challenge. He was right in line with his predecessors in the Confessing Church then and I was very proud of him. Grateful, too!

There was this one sad little dweeb with his cropped head, his bomber jacket and his black leather boots who used to come mooching up our street, giving me a bit of stink-eye, when stickers would often appear on the nearby light poles pushing Nazi ideas. That was probably him, but there was no way to confront him about that without breaking the law myself. He was just some local loser who'd blown his chances in school so that he must have decided to try his luck with the neo-Nazis.

I certainly did not put any anti-Nazi stickers on the family car then, not wanting to come back to four flat tires and both mirrors knocked off. The bastards knew where I lived anyway, which could have been trouble enough.

Things have quieted down now, but those bastards have not gone away. Another Rieger could start the same sort of trouble all over again because we have the same sort of deplorables that Trump has been able to use.

The joke is that Germany has got so far past its own terrible recent past that most folks here seem to be shocked at what Trump is up to in the States. They can't understand how he is making his simple-minded crap work for him, but really it's very much the way that a "hissing street pedlar"* once led Germany itself right off a cliff.

*Wilhelm Furtwängler came up with that one. He was a great conductor who must have had a pair of big, brass balls; he was a true hero of true German culture.

Last edited by chuks; 17th Jul 2019 at 23:33.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 23:51
  #18969 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
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“Are you claiming the photo is somehow fake?”

No, it’s real. Trump received an award and the photograph is as real as it gets.

The Award was for “his work as a successful developer in New York City and his German heritage” and had nothing to do with “helping inner city youth.”


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Old 18th Jul 2019, 08:07
  #18970 (permalink)  
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/m...eles-0bp9k9c0g

MS-13 gang went on ‘medieval killing spree’ in Los Angeles

Seven people were hacked to death in California and one had his heart cut out by members of the MS-13 street gang, according to federal charges.

The suspects were linked to a branch of the gang known as the Fulton clique based in the San Fernando Valley in the Los Angeles area. They were among 22 people charged with murder, racketeering and other offences.

The gang indulged in a “medieval-style” killing spree beginning in 2017, and their “heinous, cruel [and] depraved” murders qualified them for the death penalty, Nick Hanna, central California’s attorney-general, said. The state has a moratorium on capital punishment.

MS-13 has its roots in El Salvador and President Trump has cited it as a reason to tighten immigration rules and build a wall on the southern US border....... Nineteen of the suspects had entered the US illegally in the past three or four years, according to Mr Hanna’s office. Their victims were also recent arrivals..........



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Old 18th Jul 2019, 08:34
  #18971 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by chuks View Post
Trump's racism was never subtle, but it was not as crass as it has lately become;
What utter tosh. There is zero evidence whatsoever for Trump ever having been racist.
.


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Old 18th Jul 2019, 09:21
  #18972 (permalink)  
 
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Fixed that for you ....

"What utter ignorance. There is ample evidence for Trump having been racist." (By the way, a shot of Trump stealing that black Marine's cover, presumably either to preserve his hairdo or else to prance around "playing soldier," clearly shows that Trump is a racist. It was one thing for Trump not to pay some black gardener for work done, but it's far worse for him to steal a black Marine's cover, not minding the cameras there to document his foul deed. Trump clearly needs professional help with whatever it is that he has wrong with him, because it seems to be getting worse by the day.)

Eclectic, had you been "sent to Coventry," or were you born there? Yesterday, presumably!

I guess you missed this, but have a read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial...f_Donald_Trump

Trump and his father Fred (the same Fred Trump who once was arrested in connection with a Klan rally in New York) had been hauled into court repeatedly for housing discrimination against blacks.

Trump was quite persistent in allegations that Barack Hussein Obama was not a natural-born US citizen and thus was not a legitimate president. Trump pushed the notion that Obama really was just some sort of Kenyan with a fake Hawaiian birth certificate. Even worse, Trump's migrant wife joined him in pushing this nonsense.

Trump named a US-born judge, Gonzalo Curiel as some sort of Mexican because his parents, also US citizens, had been born there.

Trump capped his latest suggestion that four US congresswomen should "go back where they came from" with a rally where his followers were shouting "Send her back!" That would be Ilhan Omar, naturalized US citizen (for years longer than Trump's own migrant wife, Melania, has been a US citizen) who should be sent back to Somalia. Omar left Somalia as a child and became a US citizen in her teens, so that Trump's suggestion that she's less than a full citizen is quite improper on several grounds, one of them being racism, another being general bigotry. (Omar's brown face and adherence to Islam do not fit Trump's notion of who is or is not a full citizen, obviously.)

Another thing is that Omar and her three other comrades in the "Squad" have upset poor Donald by presuming to give advice about how the USA should comport itself. That actually is one role that members of Congress are elected to fulfill, not that Donald should be expected to know such a basic fact as that one. He should know it, being our 45th President and all, but being Donald we expect that he does not know it. (Not exactly racism as such, this, just Trump being pig-ignorant about a basic fact that drew forth his racist retorts. Sorry for the drift.)

ORAC, that is pretty cool! A medieval killing spree, c/w someone having his heart cut out. (What were these guys, Aztec throw-backs?) Now, though, we need to get to the boring part: how did these terrible people get into the States? Want to bet that they just came through a normal border crossing point, someplace a wall would not have barred them from entry? On the other hand, if they had scampered across some open stretch of land, do you suppose that the sort of people who go around cutting hearts out would be stopped by a 30-foot high wall? "¡Ramón, bring de 35-foot ladder! And de obsidian knife. ¡Muchas gracias!"

Last edited by chuks; 18th Jul 2019 at 10:12.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 12:17
  #18973 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
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Rashida Tlaib says this of Pelosi, according to the ever truthful Guardian.

“She is speaker of the House. She can ask for a meeting to sit down with us for clarification,” Tlaib said. She also called on Pelosi to acknowledge that they are “women of color”.

“Acknowledge the fact that we are women of color, so when you do single us out, be aware of that and what you’re doing, especially because some of us are getting death threats, because some of us are being singled out because of our backgrounds, because of our experiences and so forth,” Tlaib said.

But what on earth would be the reaction were Pelosi to hold her office door open for The Squad and say to them, on arrival for a meeting:

'Welcome to my office, women of colour.'

I'll bet there would be fireworks and accusations that Pelosi had become Trumperized.
The race card is gradually being reduced to absurdity by those who have many other resources at their disposal to the prejudice of those whose armouries are bare of all else.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 12:54
  #18974 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
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2020 Presidential Election

It seems the presidential 2020 contestant IDs are now set for the 2020 election. The Republican v Democrat morphed into Pro-populist v Anti-establishment and has now settled as Racists v Socialists.

Eclectic,
What utter tosh. There is zero evidence whatsoever for Trump ever having been racist.
You seem rather uninformed. To become informed you might start by looking up the definition of the word racist in the dictionary. Let me help you - It is defined as a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or believes that a particular race is superior to another. Example - His comments have led to him being called a racist. Now, you can follow this up by reading some of the examples given in other posts about Trump. Trump is a racist, has been for decades. His father was a racist, like father like son, Trump worshiped his father.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 13:04
  #18975 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by chuks View Post
Trump clearly needs professional help with whatever it is that he has wrong with him, because it seems to be getting worse by the day.)
I am sorry about your Trump Derangement Syndrome. It is very common among USA "liberals".
As is their desire to overthrow democracy and to resort to dirty tricks and lies at every opportunity.
There is absolutely no doubt that Trump will be re-elected. Will continue to MAGA and will continue to drain the swamp.

.


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Old 18th Jul 2019, 14:44
  #18976 (permalink)  
 
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Electic,
It is very common among USA "liberals".
As is their desire to overthrow democracy and to resort to dirty tricks and lies at every opportunity.
There is absolutely no doubt that Trump will be re-elected. Will continue to MAGA and will continue to drain the swamp.
Your recollection of US history seems very dim. It was Richard M. Nixon, conservative Republican, that resorted to dirty tricks and lies at every opportunity, including on national TV, "I am not a crook!" he announced to the country. Trump has drained the swamp by hiring swamp residents to his WH staff and offices. As far as him continuing to MAGA, his agenda now is more like MAWA which his core base loves, "Send Them Back", the latest chant at his NC rally...
Personally, I think Trump doesn't really want a second term as POTUS and he is doing everything he can to make it happen without announcing, "I will not run again" on twitter. Trump loves the presidential perks, but hates the presidential duties. He'd rather be "The Lone Ranger" running the show all by himself at Trump Enterprises, Inc. back in NYC.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 14:59
  #18977 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
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In Seychelles, if you have become a naturalised citizen, that privilege can be removed and you can be deported to your country of original citizenship for just about anything the President of Seychelles and any Minister might consider offensive. This is something that the owner of a large hotel at Beau Vallon found out about first hand some years ago. He lost his hotel into the bargain, now primarily a Russian holiday resort. A natural born person is something different and countries have laws defining that class of citizen but that in itself, if you take to to the extreme of definition, is discriminatory.
But is it racist to invite someone who constantly criticises their country of citizenship to return their country of origin or is it simply to bestow a kindness by extending that person's natural and logical horizons? At least it's not being nearly as didactic as the UK where the law states that, if your father was British and you were born in Britain you are British, for ever, always, no matter what you do. Trump should be applauded for offering a greater freedom of choice than that available in the UK. That's not being racist, that's being a true humanist.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 15:29
  #18978 (permalink)  
 
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So the Seychelles are superior to the USA. Noted.
Per
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 15:55
  #18979 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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It's in the Oath of Office ....

The president swears this oath upon taking office: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Somewhere in that Constitution is the provision that anyone born in the USA is a natural-born citizen, and also that anyone who becomes a naturalized citizen is also a citizen, albeit one barred from serving as president.

It makes no difference then where your parents or you yourself came from when it comes to your status as a full citizen of the States. Trump's mother came from Great Britain, but he is still a natural-born citizen, same as Gonzalo Curiel.

There is nothing in that Constitution that entitles Trump to tell any US citizen to go back where he or she came from. When he did that he was not acting in accordance with the Constitution, and not in accordance with his Oath of Office.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 16:01
  #18980 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Originally Posted by chuks View Post
There is nothing in that Constitution that entitles Trump to tell any US citizen to go back where he or she came from. When he did that he was not acting in accordance with the Constitution, and not in accordance with his Oath of Office.
There is, its called the 1st Amendment.
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