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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 29th Jan 2019, 19:15
  #17301 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle America
Age: 79
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Originally Posted by West Coast:
I’m not mistaking anything. Just like 1981 should there be any industrial action (which is illegal per terms of employment) the controllers and their union leadership would be standing in disbelief when their hand was called and they were fired. They know this which is exactly why there were no threats from NATCA of striking. There were no threats of collective absences having seen ALPA get hammered for similar.
The issue in 1981 was a strike by the ATC for higher wages and shorter working hours. It was a violation of the 1947 Federal Taft-Hartley Act to prevent these kind of strikes from occurring. The Taft-Hartley Act wasn't design to address Federal workers being forced to work without pay, it wasn't envisioned back then. Being forced to work without pay is akin to involuntary servitude. The unions are suing in court as this has never been ruled on. It has only happened because Trump decided to shutdown the government for however long it takes to get funding for his 3rd century wall theory. We will see what the courts decide.

Personally, the solution is a law to prevent the government from being shutdown by some ding-bat president over a cue word for him to remember to talk about an issue on the campaign trail.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 19:20
  #17302 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chuks View Post
No, WC, I volunteered. I was Regular Army, with a service number that began with "RA" instead of "US." I would tell it to you so that you could look me up, except that it is Top Secret.

Seriously, though, who wants to fake a claim that they volunteered for Vietnam, because they believed what they had been told about that war, that we were in it to win? Here I was, just trying to persuade all of us that I am way smart, so why would I fake being that stupid?

You guys! You really don't like it up you, do you? It's okay for Trump, your object of regard, to empty the old slop bucket on whoever is on his target list for the day, even if that is a pair of Gold Star parents, but one little jab about how few of us know who Smedley Butler was and you have to pull the lace hanky out of your sleeve and get to fanning your brow.

Go and do that survey among your fellow beachboys, WC. If you come up with any who are not former Marines and who know who Smedley Butler was, then I shall go out into the freezing North German drizzle to strip naked and flog myself to cries of "Donald Trump, long may he rule us!" Off you go now ....
I don’t have the ability to debate Trump directly about his anti veteran comments. I do have the ability to debate you about your anti veteren comments. You want Trump to answer for hammering McCain, yet you deflect when cornered about speaking ill of veterans. The more you post, the more the similarities you have with your President are obvious.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 19:25
  #17303 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
The issue in 1981 was a strike by the ATC for higher wages and shorter working hours. It was a violation of the 1947 Federal Taft-Hartley Act to prevent these kind of strikes from occurring. The Taft-Hartley Act wasn't design to address Federal workers being forced to work without pay, it wasn't envisioned back then. Being forced to work without pay is akin to involuntary servitude. The unions are suing in court as this has never been ruled on. It has only happened because Trump decided to shutdown the government for however long it takes to get funding for his 3rd century wall theory. We will see what the courts decide.

Personally, the solution is a law to prevent the government from being shutdown by some ding-bat president over a cue word for him to remember to talk about an issue on the campaign trail.

Pay or not, the controllers have to show up to work. They did, other than NATCA leadership appearing on TV it was business as usual.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 20:38
  #17304 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/29/polit...ris/index.html


Poll of dem voters in 2020.

Among Dems, Trump and Bernie are tied. Guess his goose is cooked.

Trump beats out Beto, Hillary, Oprah, Pocahontas, (some people only need one name) Michelle Obama and a whole host of others suspected of potentially running.

Democrats should be very concerned about 2020.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 20:43
  #17305 (permalink)  
 
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That is one of the strangest insults I have ever been given ....

West Coast, you are just being silly now. I seem to have given you a few too many little pushes, until you slid right off the edge of reason, not that you may have been all that centered up to begin with.

Unless you are being complimentary, telling me that I am like Trump, do you now have a negative view of Trump because of what I have detailed about his acting in ways that are anti-veteran? He does act that way, you know. How is it that you, a veteran, are okay with Trump being anti-veteran when my being that way puts a burr under your saddle blanket?

Of course it might be that I am against veterans who let themselves be played for suckers by anti-veteran Donald Trump, when that is not quite the same thing as simply being anti-veteran.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 20:49
  #17306 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
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“Elliott Abrams has just been appointed as special envoy to Venezuela to help with the coup America has been working on down there.”
Yep, and when the coup fails (again) the US will not hesitate in bringing out the guns, all in the name of “democracy” or “terrorism” or “humanitarian intervention” or “insert convenient lie here”.
All in the name of OIL. Worlds biggest reserves.

OIL.



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Old 29th Jan 2019, 20:49
  #17307 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Originally Posted by chuks View Post
If you come up with any who are not former Marines and who know who Smedley Butler was, then I shall go out into the freezing North German drizzle to strip naked and flog myself to cries of "Donald Trump, long may he rule us!" Off you go now ....
Out in the rain you go, chuks.
Back before there was an internet, and what the calendar tells me is about a quarter of a century ago I presented a short paper at staff college covering
the Banana Wars
Civilian Control of the Military
Current (1994) American involvement in places like maybe Bosnia and maybe Ngorno Karabach.
Smedley Butler, whom I had heard of previously but hadn't really appreciated until I had to research that paper, figured prominently in the first half of the presentation. (I think I still have his book in my various boxes full of staff college stuff up in the attic)
Also figuring in that presentation were Chesty Puller and Brute Krulak (the latter of whom I had met a few years earlier in San Diego, CA).

Me? Navy.

Thanks for volunteering to head to Viet Nam, chuks. Seriously.
Another thing I learned in staff college is that more volunteers served in that period that did draftees.
That was news to me, at the time.

I had two different bosses in the 90's/early 00's who flew Dustoffs and Chinooks in that Southeast Asian garden spot ... both of them were volunteers who flew as warrant officers, went to college on the GI bill, and then got commissioned as Naval Officers/Naval Aviators. Good men.
Originally Posted by Orange future View Post
“Elliott Abrams has just been appointed as special envoy to Venezuela to help with the coup America has been working on down there.” OIL.
The Chavez and Maduro team have done sufficient self immolation to render any perceived need in Washington to back a coup moot. The Americans don't need to lift a finger. It will fall apart just fine, all that the folks in Foggy Bottom and Langley need is more popcorn as they watch the horror show.
Its' rather telling that some of the people from "the home office" (Venezuela) who work at Citgo (there is a Citgo refinery in Corpus Christi, and a major presence in Houston) are in many cases no longer returning "home" since the last few got arrested when they went home to visit their family. (This from personal contacts inside the box at Cigto ... )

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 29th Jan 2019 at 21:00.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 21:25
  #17308 (permalink)  
 
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The Three Stooges?

Sorry to interrupt cousins, but it seems as if you have much more of a problem on your hands than you thought.
This article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/29/u...ong-trump.html is claiming the the Directors of the CIA and FBI, along with the DNI, contradicted Mr. Trump in a briefing to Congress. What is particularly glaring about this is that they claim to be basing their testimony on facts and intelligence and not gut feelings.

Where do you even start with this? We know that Trump has a perspicacity and insight into international matters that has heretofore not been witnessed in any human of any era. He stands athwart these matters with an expertise that mere mortals can hardly grasp, not to mention equal.

Now these interlopers come trotting out with a detailed analysis that seems to cast doubt on Mr. Kim's love of Donald? That Iran might not not have nuclear weapons in the next five days? They work for him correct? Why, at the end of the workday in Washington, are these "advisers" still drawing pay?

One can only hope that Mr. Trump will cashier these three stooges out of their offices soonest. After all, how can you have a decent casus belli for engaging in kinetic operations against Iran if you are undercut by your intelligence chiefs that the threat might not be so urgent?

Last edited by Uncle Fred; 29th Jan 2019 at 22:41. Reason: Spelling, spelling, and more spelling
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 22:08
  #17309 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uncle Fred View Post
Sorry to interrupt cousins, but it seems as if you have much more of a problem on your hands than you thought.
Gross generalization noted.
This article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/29/u...ong-trump.html is claiming the the Directors of the CIA and FBI, along with the DNI, contradicted Mr. Trump in a briefing to Congress. What is particularly glaring about this is that they claim to be basing their testimony on facts and intelligence and not gut feelings.
How is this news? It comes as no surprise to me that people who are in the executive branch try to keep their briefings factual because when Congress catches on in a boo boo, it can end one's career ... but doesn't always.
Where do you even start with this?
Some of us call it same shlt different day.
We know that Trump has a perspicacity and insight into international matters that has heretofore not been witnessed in any human of any era. He stands athwart these matters with an expertise that mere mortals can hardly grasp, not to mention equal.
Fred, the jokes thread is over there. -------------->
Now these interlopers come trotting out with a detailed analysis that seems to cast doubt on Mr. Kim's love of Donald? That Iran might not not have nuclear weapons in the next five days? They work for him correct? Why, at the end of the workday in Washington, are these "advisers" still drawing pay? One can only hope that Mr. Trump will cashier these three stooges out of this officers soonest. After all, how can you have a decent casus belli for engaging in kinetic operations against Iran if you are undercut by your intelligence chiefs that the threat might not be so urgent?
Don't quit your day job, Fred, but I do appreciate the attempt at humor and satire. Here, have a pint! On me.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 22:22
  #17310 (permalink)  
 
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Drat!

I was not aware that the Navy kept up on the doings of its army.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 22:29
  #17311 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chuks View Post
I was not aware that the Navy kept up on the doings of its army.
Those of us who served with Marines learned to appreciate them. (Well, some of us did).
Cheers.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 22:38
  #17312 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
Don't quit your day job, Fred, but I do appreciate the attempt at humor and satire. Here, have a pint! On me.
Interesting. My family tells me the same thing...so for the time I keep the flying gig going.

Seriously though, my weak generalizations aside, it was reassuring to read of the senior officials taking dispassionate stock of the threats as they are ones that nearly every nation in the Western alliance face. Nations great and small look toward the U.S. for leadership in this area and I am pleased to see that these two men and a woman are doing exactly what they are tasked to do--part of which is to look over the horizon at emerging threats.

Last edited by Uncle Fred; 29th Jan 2019 at 23:35.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 23:06
  #17313 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Originally Posted by West Coast:
Democrats should be very concerned about 2020.
I guess, not being a Trump supporter as you claim, (sic), you will be in the front row of Trump's next rally near where you live cheering and yelling "Lock her Up", having no clue as to the future of the USA, except for your immediate needs....

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Old 30th Jan 2019, 00:20
  #17314 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
I guess, not being a Trump supporter as you claim, (sic), you will be in the front row of Trump's next rally near where you live cheering and yelling "Lock her Up", having no clue as to the future of the USA, except for your immediate needs....
I didn’t vote for him. I like some of the things he does, others not so much.


Speaking of lock her up, guess Hills hasn’t ruled out a third try at being rejected. I’ll give it to here, she’s persistent. CNN poll put her well below Trump among likely Democratic voters. Even her own party doesn’t like her.

Let the group know how her rally is when she comes to the Midwest looking for your vote.
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Old 30th Jan 2019, 02:46
  #17315 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
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“The Americans don't need to lift a finger”

The Americans have had their grubby paws in Venezuela for decades trying to guide things in a direction to suit western interests. Money and oil.

A large part of Venezuela’s problems today are a direct result of an ongoing US policy aim of regime change in the country, its no secret.

Financial sanctions including sanctions targeting individual political candidates, embargos, lobbying and funding regional governments, financial intervention and the occasional coup attempt are all tricks employed by Washington in order to control the world’s largest reserves of oil.

And now Abrams, a crook with a history of participating in the subversion of democracy has turned up as special envoy to Venezuela!!!!

All because they are an “unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States”

It is stunningly ironic that the US is yet again treating other sovereign nations as play things while screaming bloody murder that Russia may have non violently influenced the recent US election.

Once again US foreign policy has hypocrisy at its core.
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Old 30th Jan 2019, 04:46
  #17316 (permalink)  
 
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Was there ever a totalitarian regime that did not claim they had to do their evil things to their own people because some outside group/country/race was causing all the trouble? Maduro/Chavez are just following the textbook of dictatorships.

But let's cut through your causticity, Oicur, and learn what you are really saying: Following Venezuelan law, the leader of the legislature (I forget his name, sorry) states that Maduro held an invalid fraudulent election, and by their law is no longer President. He, being the designated temporary replacement is now President till a new election. Most all the South American Countries (not Cuba or Nic or Bolivia of course) agree and recognize the new guy. Trumpo follows suit.

But you, Oicur, are lining up to keep the dictator in power, contrary to Venezuelan laws. As long as you can fling poo at the US, you happily support an authoritarian. Got it. You must have been hap;py in 1933 in Germany.
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Old 30th Jan 2019, 06:43
  #17317 (permalink)  
 
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Be careful what you wish for ....

When I was in Miami in 1980-81 I mainly was accumulating time and experience flying light twin-engine aircraft, but I also was looking around for another job.

Miami was an aviation hub for the rest of the Americas to the south, when even Cubana used MIA. One transient was a Venezuelan with a Jet Commander (a/k/a the Jew Canoe), and he was looking for a co-pilot, when he expressed a certain amount of interest in hiring me. (I don't know what was driving his desire, but I was desperate.)

I used to bump into that guy here and there, and one day there he was again up in West Palm, so that I went across the ramp to greet him, to keep in touch. Big mistake! He was busy with something then, loading little blue boxes behind the insulation at the rear of the rear baggage compartment: handguns. I was not meant to see that, of course, and that was the last I ever heard from him about a possible job. If things had worked out differently then I might have ended up down in Caracas, just in time to see everything go to hell, starting in 1982. Not that it all went to hell at once, of course, just that there was this long slide into what we now see. (I ended up in Nigeria instead, entitled to see another long slide into failure on the part of another place with lots and lots of oil. Call me Ishmael ... or Jonah.)

In mid-1992 I was in Wichita doing a Citation type rating course at FlightSafety, when I met a Citation crew from Venezuela. During a coffee break they told me about how it was in Caracas, which made for a rather grim story. They were barely hanging on to the job when, of course, the plane and its crew are the first things to go when a company is in trouble, and everyone in Venezuela was in trouble by then. "Trouble" is relative, of course, so that their troubles of 1992 probably look like a Golden Age compared to those of today.

Due to our history in the Americas it probably would have been a very good idea for Trump to tread lightly in the case of Venezuela. His coming down against Maduro, while correct on the whole, actually sort of justifies the way that Maduro is clinging to power. That would be because of the noisy and unimaginative way that Trump is making his moves. One of the first things that Trump did was to threaten an invasion. It would be politically difficult, to say the least, for any other state in the Americas to line up behind that, since many of them were or still are the targets of US meddling. Cf. Smedley Butler's War is a Racket.

Diplomacy and the use of "soft force" do not seem to be options that present themselves to the sadly limited imagination of Donald Trump. Blustering threats coming from political ineptitude and lack of historical background knowledge seem to be Trump's default options. Now we see the usual move by Trump partisans, making out that to be against Trump is to be for Maduro. That is pretty far from correct, but it would take a feeling for nuance to understand why that is.

Last edited by chuks; 30th Jan 2019 at 07:10.
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Old 30th Jan 2019, 11:38
  #17318 (permalink)  
 
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I must say...that for all the talk about how much $ US ATC make (I guess to show they can afford it and therefore justify not paying staff of the state)...what about countless other Government workers who haven't been paid in so long (AND Cannot afford it??) ...are they to be considered 'Collateral damage' ?? ...'Collateral Damage' has so quaintly worked for so long now....bless.....

How much has this 'shutdown' cost'?.....I'm seeing figures far beyond what was requested in funding!...a convenient argument to blame the democrats I guess...but equally is not the president insisting on financially hurting his people....and then without basis claiming they supprt him...somewhat devoid of logic??....put it down to "fake news" I suppose......It's a good one isn't it? fake News?....Fabulous....covers anything and everything.....and compels many millions of simpletons into beleiving it...that is not being disrespectful.....but a whole lot of US citizens that willingly sign up for the 'right'...or perhaps more precisley 'correct' thing to do..?

Anyway...The President said that Mexico was paying for the 'Wall'....in the election campaign..,so what's the fuss....just go to a sovereign state like Mexico and TELL them this was part of your campaign!

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Old 30th Jan 2019, 12:39
  #17319 (permalink)  
 
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A billion here, a billion there ...

and before you know it, you are talking about real money.

That $5.6 billion is a number Trump pulled out of his arse. There are some informed estimates that a wall, a real one made of reinforced concrete, would cost around $100 billion. Nobody knows, except that such projects do not usually come in on time and under budget. (Trump had trouble enough just building Trump Tower: estimated total cost $100 million; final cost $200 million.)

Anyway, it's clear that most of the drugs come in at the legal points of entry, smuggled in using big rigs, and so on. You can have all the wall you want, but it won't stop that way of bringing in drugs.

The Democrats thought they had a deal where Trump was going to get a lot of money for border security, money he could claim was for building his wall. When commentators from his far-right base complained that that was not enough, Trump reneged on the deal, when what followed was this shut-down. Now he's got less than he would have had if he'd stuck to that deal. In the meantime further discussion about the wall, about how drugs come in, about how they catch illegals (mostly at airports), and so on, has made Trump's wall fantasies less and less likely to come about.

It looks as if Trump's only option now is to try to fund it by declaring a state of emergency. Then he can lose before the courts (since if there is a real state of emergency, why wait to declare it until later) but turn to his base to say that he tried his very, very best, only to be defeated by ... something or other, pro-Mexican rapist murderer Democrats, or this "deep state"?

Trump will think of something to tweet about, whatever the reality is, when we will have to wait to see if his base buys whatever that is. They have stuck with him so far.

It's not just that Mexico will not pay, even though Trump often promised they would; the Democrats are now much less willing to pretend that they are giving Trump even partial funding for the wall. Things seem to have come full circle, so that Trump is now stuck with a promise he never meant to keep. I guess he never realized that those rubes were taking his crazy talk about the wall perfectly seriously. It could have been an aircraft carrier made of cheese so that it won't show up on radar.

The wall was just something Trump said that made his base stand up and cheer, nothing much more than that. He bought into it then and maybe even until now, without bothering to understand how elementally absurd this whole thing is, even though, sure, it's a very powerful symbolic object. Wall off our southern border and just tell the rest of the Americas "Get lost, losers! You are fired!" That's about like "I will bomb the crap out of ISIS!" really, bombast with no foundation in reality.
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Old 30th Jan 2019, 12:41
  #17320 (permalink)  
 
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Intelligence chiefs met yesterday for a report to government.

"US intelligence chiefs have contradicted some of President Donald Trump's most fundamental foreign policy claims.

At a hearing on global threats at the Senate Intelligence Committee, the intelligence chiefs took issue with Mr Trump's assertion that the Islamic State group has been defeated, and that North Korea can be convinced to forego its nuclear weapons.
They also challenged Mr Trump's claim that Iran is actively seeking nuclear weapons, the justification the president gave for withdrawing last year from a multilateral treaty on Iran.
They stated again that Russia meddled on Mr Trump's behalf in the 2016 presidential election, which he has repeatedly denied, and can be expected to do so again next year.
The conclusions are part of an annual Worldwide Threat Assessment." RTE

Not one single word about a National Security Crisis on the southern border.

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