Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 2nd Nov 2018, 01:28
  #16381 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
You have to be pretty stupid to post that. The year is 2018. There is a lot of tech available to defend a border like that, and most of it does not involve stationing soldiers in even spaces from one end to the other.
This whole thing is political symbolism.
If there were a permissive RoE for engaging anyone crossing the border at other than the authorized and very public check points in the four border states (CA, AZ, NM, TX) then all you need is airborne assets (armed and unarmed), some artillery units, and some mobile units on the ground to cover the entire border with fires.
That would defend the border. Any second week student at the infantry officer's school in Fort Benning could give you the template on how to do that.
(PS, the Customs service has been flying P-3's and then Predators along the border for years already. The "how" of the surveillance piece is very old hat).

So no, you are being obtuse. This has bloody **** all to do with "defending a border."
This is political theater.
When someone runs out of arguments he resorts to insults. Up to now I had assumed personal insults on this website were taboo. Obviously Dear Leader has invaded even here with his rhetoric.

You haven't even understoood what I was saying. That' s ......
I'll spell it out for you: 15,000 troops plus ICE plus national guard plus plus is a ridiculous amount of manpower. You basically say they are not even needed to defend the border because there is so much tech available.
Right, so what are they supposed to be doing?

It's a political theater by Dear Leader alright. To the cost estimated at 100 to 150 million US$.
Brakes on is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2018, 04:58
  #16382 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 72
Posts: 1,561
Forget the Marines! Send in the Coast Guard!

We have been happy enough to use extreme military force on civilians in other countries, but are we now going to do that along our southern border, on US territory?

I don't understand what is meant to happen when all our high-tech military surveillance kit picks up a group of "invaders," what the ROE (Rules of Engagement) shall be for that. Is the military supposed to just detect them, call the Border Patrol on them, and then watch them get away, perhaps?

Or is it going to be like the time that Mad Dog, flying his gunship, saw the NVA scoot across the border, home free, when he gunned them down anyway? "They think they are getting away, but we are not going to let them get away, are we?" Mad Dog broke the rules! But nobody minded that much since there was a war on then.

Donald Trump is aiming for a bit of harmless political theater but he's setting the stage for a tragedy. It is clear that he has not thought this one through.

Where is your Posse Comitatus Act now, Lonewolf? Yeah, we all know what it is and what it is supposed to do, bar the domestic use of the Army and the National Guard under normal circumstances, so why is it being ignored? Is Congress going along with Trump calling this an "invasion," some sort of national emergency?

Trump could send the Coast Guard, you know. They are not barred from acting by the Posse Comitatus Act. Someone should tell him that ....
chuks is offline  
Old 3rd Nov 2018, 00:44
  #16383 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 44
Lonewulf,
since you loved my post about troop deployment so much because it gave you grounds to more insults (i've found out I'm not the only recipient of such),
here is something else for you:
15, 000 troops mean around 3 to 4 per man, woman and child in the caravan, recently called by Dear Leader "an invasion". He would know everything about invasions, having had five deferments from military service due to 'bone spurs'.

It seems your red MAGA hat is sending very negative waves into your brain. Maybe you should revert to your Steson
Brakes on is offline  
Old 3rd Nov 2018, 05:48
  #16384 (permalink)  

Plastic PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 1,891
Lonewolf pointed out that 15,000 troops to "defend" the border was ridiculous overkill, even under hypothetically the most permissive RoE (ie: "If it moves you can kill it"). There is more than enough air-power to do this.

As he says, "So no, you are being obtuse." (which you are)
And, "This has bloody **** all to do with "defending a border. This is political theater." (which it is)

Mac
Mac the Knife is offline  
Old 3rd Nov 2018, 06:35
  #16385 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 72
Posts: 1,561
I've done the numbers ....

I think the ROE stipulate that each invader shall be grabbed by a minimum of three GIs and physically carried to the border with Mexico to be dumped back across it after the name has been taken:
chuks is offline  
Old 3rd Nov 2018, 15:33
  #16386 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,558
Originally Posted by Brakes on View Post
So now Dear Leader is talking about "up to 15,000 troops"
According to Wikipedia the USA-Mexico border is 1,954 miles (3,145 kilometers) long. This translates as a soldier every 229 yards (210 meters) and is not even counting ICE and the national guard already there.
Can troops vote when deployed?.
Do you know how the military operates or are you trying not to be taken seriously?

In my day, for every Marine at the tip of the spear, there were 4 REMFs doing the mundane but necessary work of supporting that one guy. Maybe the ratios have changed since the 80 and 90s, but the logistical tail is still significant.
West Coast is offline  
Old 3rd Nov 2018, 19:54
  #16387 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 60
Posts: 5,508
Originally Posted by chuks View Post
Umm, Lonewolf, we have a Prez who can't even work an umbrella, let alone a telephone. Trump does not do high tech, so that his notion of border security literally is a long line of GIs stationed about 500 feet apart (because you will need two for each post). Did he remember to order waders for the ones on the border formed by bodies of water various?
Trump won't order the waders (nor think of the need) but I expect that some savvy supply sergeant already did ...
The problem is that Trump thinks that a wall will make a difference. It won't unless, like the Berlin Wall, it's approaches are covered by fires as the East Germans did. I don't think he's willing to do that, so the wall is a bloody waste of time and money. As Dea Certe mentioned, it's about symbols. Nothing to do with substance.
Yes, Lonewolf, my excuse is Agent Orange. Yours, I assume, must be Texas.
Nope; you are not as smart as you think you are. Might be best to stop reading your own news clippings.
What makes me disagreeable in this thread, and the threads that it pollutes when some of you knuts drag this swill (US Politics) into threads on other topic, I spelled out earlier, so let me referesh your memory.
Ever since 2016 election result, the people who post on this thread have lost their fcuking minds. It was bad enough before that, it has spiraled into the crapper.
I am rarely inclined to post in this mess. when I am so moved, the feces being thrown around here puts me into a bad mood.
You all reap what you sow.
Or maybe, raise your game.
Oh, wait, not a hope in hell of that.
Suggest a review of some JB history.
https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/559612-us-politics-hamsterwheel-v2-0-a-post9565585.html

https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/559612-us-politics-hamsterwheel-v2-0-a-post9566549.html

https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/559612-us-politics-hamsterwheel-v2-0-a-post9570919.html

https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/559612-us-politics-hamsterwheel-v2-0-a-post9571072.html

https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/559612-us-politics-hamsterwheel-v2-0-a-post9572676.html

https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/559612-us-politics-hamsterwheel-v2-0-a-post9573327.html

That last post was when I was still hopeful of dialogue, rather than a collection of monologues.
EDIT:
Never mind, this new forum software is fuxored. I took a bit of time to pick out permalinks to some cogent discussions from about two years ago, and I discover that the links go to random pages. Screw InternetBrands and their knuting forumfkucery.

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 3rd Nov 2018 at 21:14.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 3rd Nov 2018, 20:01
  #16388 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 60
Posts: 5,508
You have to be pretty stupid to have posted that, right there.
Originally Posted by Brakes on View Post
It seems your red MAGA hat is sending very negative waves into your brain. Maybe you should revert to your Steson
So, we learn that Ron White is correct. You can't fix stupid.
Memo to Brake's On: Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean that they care for, or even agree with, D Trump. Don't fall into the chuksfallacy.

Happily, I believe that there is hope for you, in that you understood my post;
It's a political theater by Dear Leader alright.
Indeed, as has been this whole stupid 'wall' meme since before the election of 2016.
To the cost estimated at 100 to 150 million US$.
Roughly the cost of an F-35. I'd rather have the airplane.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2018, 00:27
  #16389 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 72
Posts: 1,561
Ooh, cranky!

Lonewolf, okay, you are just another Trump-hater, and welcome to the club.

Now play nicely and stop trying to tell people that they are stupid. When you are being disagreeable please do not blame that on others. When I am being disagreeable that is because I like being disagreeable! Usually to people I disagree with, sure, and if that does not make sense to you, well ....

Don't make me flash my Mensa card; that never ends well. Bear in mind that I don't need to be as smart as I think I am. I just need to be smarter than a Texan. What really matters is, are we both smarter than Donald Trump? Jeez, I hope so!
chuks is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2018, 01:38
  #16390 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Great South East, tired and retired
Posts: 2,761
The orange Panda is yapping on TV about "Barack H Obama" - why should this idiot bring up Obama's name like that again? Well, Forrest Trump, stoopid is as stoopid does. And you does.
Ascend Charlie is online now  
Old 4th Nov 2018, 13:49
  #16391 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by Mac the Knife View Post
Lonewolf pointed out that 15,000 troops to "defend" the border was ridiculous overkill, even under hypothetically the most permissive RoE (ie: "If it moves you can kill it"). There is more than enough air-power to do this.

As he says, "So no, you are being obtuse." (which you are)
And, "This has bloody **** all to do with "defending a border. This is political theater." (which it is)

Mac
Lonewolf did not point out anything even close. Get your facts straight.
Brakes on is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2018, 13:50
  #16392 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 608
Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie View Post
The orange Panda is yapping on TV about "Barack H Obama" - why should this idiot bring up Obama's name like that again?.
Well, Ascend, possibly that is because Barack H Obama has inserted himself back into election politics, giving his same old speech, and pining ffor the “good old days” of his floundering administration. Fair game, I would say.

Insulting, you say? Who used the “orange panda” term?
obgraham is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2018, 17:14
  #16393 (permalink)  
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 1,657
Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie View Post
The orange Panda is yapping on TV about "Barack H Obama" - why should this idiot bring up Obama's name like that again? Well, Forrest Trump, stoopid is as stoopid does. And you does.
It's very simple. By drawing attention to Obama's middle initial he is simply reminding the mouth breathers that it is "Hussein". By reminding them, he triggers this type of visceral reaction:

"Wait a goddamed minute! Hussein you say, sure sounds like a goddamed Mooslim. Hey, didn't somebody run a campaign showing that black boy was born in Kenya? That Mr Trump wasn't it, he's a smart guy. he wouldn't lie to no white voters,so it must be true, no matter what the lyin' media says. Why's that goddam mooslim guy giving speaches supportin' the rest of those joo lovin commie bastards...etc. etc."

It used to be a dog whistle to right wingers, now it's a full blown fog horn to every bigoted moron that thinks being American means "I've got mine, so fu(k you!"

So nice job attacking Obama in the earlier reply. but let's not over look the bigoted racists that Trump truly appeals to. Not racist, but Number 1 with racists.
Two's in is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2018, 05:14
  #16394 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vendee
Posts: 138
I know such topics are of no interest to most posters on this thread, but I am watching how the reimposition of sanctions against Iran will play out. Today, 5 November, is the day that the Trump administration is ratcheting up the sanctions bite.

I say it is interesting because the U.S., from the goodness of its heart, is granting waivers to some countries such as India and China to purchase energy products. Seriously?

I know that the EU's efforts to denominate trade with Iran in a different currency are most likely stillborn, but the chutzpah is breathtaking of a supposedly free market champion telling the rest of the world with whom it can trade. No wonder countries such as Oz and India are spending so much diplomatic capital with China at the moment. There is no way that these countries will let their trading optionsm, particulary over energy, be severly impinged just because Jared Kushner, John Bolton, and Trump think they must go after Iran. Talkking about carrying coals to Newcastle!
Uncle Fred is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2018, 07:05
  #16395 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: apogee
Age: 65
Posts: 59
I am watching how the reimposition of sanctions against Iran will play out
Don't think most folks outside Iran's sphere of influence give one small damn.

This is a country that celebrates, heartily and with much enthusiasm, the anniversary of the invasion of the US embassy in Tehran, every single year.
They seem to want to be a pariah in this world.
meadowrun is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2018, 07:50
  #16396 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vendee
Posts: 138
Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
Don't think most folks outside Iran's sphere of influence give one small damn.
I would beg to differ. Many of the countries on the waiver list are outside Iran's sphere of direct influence and they are extremely invested, so to speak, in the issue.

I write that not as an Iranian regime accolyte to be sure. But it is remarkable the target fixation with Iran that the U.S. has irrespective of the disruptions that the Persians support across the ME. So heavily involved in this are the Americans that they come into direct contraposition with a number of countries with whom they are ostensibly courting to be in the counterweight camp to a growing China. Talk about working at cross purposes.

As I admitted, not of interest to most here but still of rather decent importance in the great shuffle.

If it is of any consolation however, I see Bolton has named three countries in Latin and South America to be some kind of troika of tyranny. Perhaps until the KSA, one of the three prime occupants on the anti-Iran bandwagon, imbroglio cools down that regime change in the climes south of the U. S. is going to be the talk of the town.

Last edited by Uncle Fred; 5th Nov 2018 at 17:36.
Uncle Fred is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2018, 13:38
  #16397 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 72
Posts: 1,561
Donald likes ice cream so give him a cornuto.

Before the Revolution I had a few Iranian flight students, good guys. Just rich kids, basically, but good guys for all of that.

My wife had a classmate at the MHH from Iran, with whom she kept in touch until her classmate's death from natural causes back in Iran.

My daughter recently had another Iranian classmate, also at the MHH. He was kind enough to bring back a really special backgammon set for her to give to us, one with Persian miniatures in the middle of each half, and a high degree of craftsmanship. It's really nice to play this game from that part of the world on a set from the same place.

I bought four nice Persian rugs for the house. I think they are from Tabriz, an ancient Iranian center of carpet-weaving, and they really do tie two of our rooms together.

All this sort of stuff, person-to-person contact, and some trade, is worth much more than threatening behavior by Trump. When those rulers in Iran want to show their people that nuclear weapons are really necessary, worth all the pain they have endured recently, don't they need a Great Satan, a hostile USA, as an extreme and continuing external threat, along with various other barriers to trade? I think so, and that is exactly what Trump is delivering to the religious fanatics who rule Iran.

If only we could get MIke Pence to meet Mahmoud Ahmadinejad then they would discover how much they have in common, when I think they would be even better friends than Trump is with Putin. Trump and Putin ... that's just style, where Pence and Ahmadinejad ... that would be religion! You know, bigotry, hypocrisy, a liking for the death sentence, a wish to see women as a lesser species and a source of temptation, hatred of gay rights ... all of their favorite things are shared. It would be a real bummer for the citizenry of both countries, but our VP and their former President would see eye-to-eye on so many things that they would just have to come away friends for life.

In terms of aviation, of course, it is striking that Trump shows no concern over recent deals between Boeing and Iran. He's wittering on about the cost of giving our funny Saudi friends a slap on the wrist for making some writer for the Post vanish in a way that has yet to be explained. There we have to think about the money involved, imaginarily huge sums as told by Trump. Actual lost sales by Boeing ... not a word about that, so far. Then there is the way that European commercial aircraft sales probably will also be hit. I guess it's okay that Boeing gets it in the shorts as long as Airbus does too. That would be about the way that Trump thinks, I suppose.

Given that we were never going to be able to stop the Iranian nuclear program by military means (too dispersed, too well protected, not well enough located), wouldn't it make sense to turn down the heat on the Iranian government and turn up our efforts at making contact with the Iranian populace?

Trump is no reader, so that I doubt that he would see the value of some deal that gave Iranians access to USIA libraries in exchange for, oh, I don't know, some F-14 spares. You know, give the fanatics some stuff that goes bang to keep them happy, while we give far more dangerous stuff to their long-suffering people; do a lateral move. Poor Donald, he only understands the "bull in a china shop" approach. He charges in there bellowing, wreaks havoc, and then retreats snorting, tossing his horns as if he won the fight. Send a cultural envoy instead, Donald; see if that might work better.

That image of horned Donald reminds me of something: There's an old Italian insult, the cornuto (the "horns"). You hold your middle and ring finger folded with the thumb, index and little fingers spread out, and then put the back of your hand to your forehead, fingers upright. It means that there is another mule kicking in your stall, that your wife is entertaining visitors. Given the way that Trump has behaved during all three of his marriages, being quite proudly horny, wouldn't it drive him mad to think that Melania is paying him back now in his own coin, making him horned?

Give Trump the "horns" but tell him it's Italian for "Good luck." That would work same as the "finger" fooled those North Koreans. (I had this brother-in-law get into a bit of trouble on an Autostrada somewhere near Naples when the other driver gave him the "horns." He thought the guy was a fan of some Texas football team, so he was giving them back quite happily, shouting "Hook 'em horns!" No, the next thing after the horns is a shooting or a stabbing, a delitto d'onore, an "honor killing" that sees your Italian killer go free.
chuks is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2018, 00:58
  #16398 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 60
Posts: 5,508
Originally Posted by chuks View Post
Ooh, cranky! !
When people post stupid stuff, being a crybaby when called on it ought to embarrass them.
I have already dealt with one such, and I hope I won't have to deal with two.

As to cranky, yeah. The local election season does that to me. I get to try and figure out which one of the local crooks is least likely to screw up our infrastructure, our roads, and our schools. So far, in the last six local elections, the "people with common sense" have gained no ground, and I think the district will lose some.
The only good news is that a judge that I know is a shoe in for keeping his seat, and a few of the usual idiots didn't stand for election this time around.
So we have new idiots.

The national mess is a tale, told by an idiot, filled with sound and fury, signifying ... that in a democracy, the people get the government that they deserve.

Prediction, before the tallies are in:

President Trump's slash and burn approach to getting elected, to getting his message out, to getting those in his party who do not make proper genuflection to him to get run off, and his never ending war of words with the media (Don, they have more people, and more words, you can't win that one) has set his party up for a fall as of tomorrow.
He had a choice: lead (how to be a President) , build an effective team (what a leader does) or rabble rouse (how to get elected)
I'd say he chose the latter.

It will be interesting to see what he tries to pull on a Congress where they are all in opposition.
Sitting duck.
Two years of entertainment, and stand up comedians not having to do much work for their material.
As I said a while back, we'll survive him.
America has survived a variety of people who arrived at 1600 Pennsylvnia Avenue.
All of you chicken-littles who have been predicting the end of the world and the rise of a Trumptator remain fools.
Doubly so for the foreigners. Some of you still don't get it.
Don't make me flash my Mensa card; that never ends well.
I'll show you mine if you show me yoursl
Beyond that, if we're so smart, how come we ain't rich?

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 6th Nov 2018 at 01:19.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2018, 05:18
  #16399 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 72
Posts: 1,561
One more day .... From Wednesday we might know much better what the next two or even six years will bring.

When we were in Manhattan recently I took the wife on a long walk, all the way from Macy's to the WTC. Along the way we visited Washington Square Park, when I cheered myself up by reading an inscription on the arch there, a quote from George Washington: "Let us raise a standard to which the wise and the honest can repair. The event is in the hand of God. "

Is it always stupid to retreat into idealism, Lonewolf, to do some sort of swing of the moral compass? I agree that politicians as a class are a bit economical with the verité, and often much more focused on self-interest than the common good, but it still has to be so that Elizabeth Warren, for example, is more truthful than Donald Trump; that Al Franken is much less of a sex pest than he is; and so on. We are being invited constantly to share Trump's sometimes stated point of view, "What do you have to lose [by voting for Trump]?" as if all politicians are less truthful and just as perverted as he is. If we can't find someone close to Christ or at least Sir Lancelot why not settle for a Donald Trump?

It must be nice to know that you are so darn smart that you know brainy Mencken was right about US politicians and US politics, but to be just a bit smarter than that is to know that Mencken was often "wrong"; he often wrote satire, not objectively truthful fact. (For example, William Jennings Bryan as Secretary of State probably never exclaimed of Haiti, "N*ggers speaking French!" Mencken making that satirical claim nailed an aspect of Bryan, but Bryan was not actually that ignorant.)

Here and now we often satirize Trump, perhaps forgetting that his reality is pretty much beyond satire, so that there's not much point to doing that. He was merely shagging a Playmate who looked an awful lot like Ivanka; with Ivanka herself he's merely groped her in public a few times so that we can only speculate about how much creepier he has been with her in private. Satirizing him gives him a pass for the truly awful things he really has done, though. It's fun, sure, but it lets him get away with too much, and with Trump just a little bit of him is way too much. (With Hitler, did we really need to be told that his touring car had a built-in toilet?)

Any luck, loss of Republican control of the House will see a flood of fact coming to bury Trump, not least his tax returns being made public. Then everyone who likes to make fun of Trump can stop with that for a while to contemplate the sight of him being put on the rack. I look forward to finding a crumb of sympathy for him, in fact.

I was out road-testing a car while Nixon gave his farewell speech, which was playing on the radio instead of Doctor Demento as usual. As I listened I thought, "Good God! To have a Nixon impersonator doing this now, when it's not even a good impersonation ... this is going too far." Nope, that really was Nixon, Nixon doing self-satire, and it was followed by that famous scene where he stood in the door of Marine One giving a double "V for Victory."

I could not have imagined what happened then to NIxon, so how can I imagine what is going to happen now to Trump? All I can go by is the idealism embodied in that inscription, when it can't have all vanished, and a vague idea that "Cheaters never prosper."

Trump took Roy Cohn for his mentor, and look what happened to him.

Last edited by chuks; 6th Nov 2018 at 05:29.
chuks is offline  
Old 6th Nov 2018, 05:58
  #16400 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,027
Beyond that, if we're so smart, how come we ain't rich?
I believe, in the age of Trump, the correct form of that expression is now: "If you're so rich, why ain't you smart?"

Enjoyed your post anyway - no criticism implied. Looking forward to what eventuates tomorrow and next year.
pattern_is_full is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.