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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 29th Sep 2018, 15:44
  #16021 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by neila83 View Post

​I'm genuinely interested in what a dec​ent person could say attracts them to trump.
​​​​
​​
As a Brit you should watch the BBC series that Ed Balls did on Trump. He met a guy who put it very apt: 'The guys you think can make a difference dont want to run for President, so all you can do is vote on what is placed before you'
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 18:41
  #16022 (permalink)  
 
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WC, hang on until the end of next week. Want to bet that the FBI turns up some more evidence?

You guys could get lucky; there could be FBI evidence supporting Kavanaugh.

People such as Mark Judge might testify, under threat of severe penalties for lying to the FBI, that Kavanaugh actually behaved just as he said that he had done. This "Bart O'Kavanaugh" from Judge's roman-ŗ-clef, Wasted? Nothing to do with his best friend from Georgetown, Brett Kavanaugh, no. That snippy answer from Kavanaugh that "You'll have to ask him that yourself," refusing to give the obvious answer that yes, of course Judge was showing his friend there in the main aspect of his ugly teen-age preppy reality, might be troublesome to him.

Not least, if Judge could remember details from his prep school days sufficient for this book, how is he going to be able to duck questions from the FBI with the usual "I have no memory of that"? What, Judge has forgotten everything between when he wrote the book, published in 1997, and now? 15 years after the events he remembered enough about them to write his book, but now, 21 years further on, he's forgotten almost everything he wrote about? (Memory doesn't work that way, Bro. Dr. Ford can explain it to you if you ask her nicely to do that.)

The thing you and the rest of the Cult of Trump followers have to struggle with, WC, is that Kavanaugh himself seems to think it's going to be more evidence against him. (if you had bothered to read and understand what I wrote about testimony being evidence then you would know there is already evidence, so that it's more evidence, not just evidence for the first time.)

The look on Kavanaugh's face as Senator Durbin challenged him for not wanting this FBI investigation ... that was some sort of petulant bafflement at not getting what he'd expected from this hearing, a Republican-led cakewalk, what Judge Gorsuch had got before him. The idea that these flimsy allegations from Dr. Ford should be taken seriously enough for a Republican senator (!) to cause the FBI to look into what actually happened in his past ... that never occurred to Kavanaugh, nor to Trump, until it was too late.

I would not be surprised to learn that Kavanaugh is withdrawing from consideration in order to spare his wonderful wife and his two wonderful children further pain and suffering inflicted upon them by this WITCH HUNT! It is too much suffering to put them through.

Last edited by chuks; 29th Sep 2018 at 18:52.
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 18:48
  #16023 (permalink)  
 
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Chuks,

The lady that was hired to ask the questions on behalf of the Republicans is a certified sex crimes investigator, the one that interviews and says book em Danno, or not. She has done this for 20 years, even she says there is not enough evidence to even obtain a search warrant, let alone anything else.
Two members of that Senate committee have given interviews/made statements such as yours, serial rapist, sex offender, on and on, with absolutely nothing more than verbal, uncorroberated statements.
Pretty much all of the Democrats werenít/arenít going to vote for him, already said before this circus started, reiterated all along the way. These folks sat on and then when they realized they werenít going to be able to stop his confirmation, leaked an accusation they knew had no merit, thatís why they held it till the last moment. Throw it out there, see if it will stick.
So he comes back to answer the charges, questioned by the very folks that have dragged him through the dirt, only they donít ask serious questions, just grandstand.

That is enough to make Mother Teresa go postal, let alone a Judge used to using law as a guide.

A lot of folks would have thrown in the towel by now, you, I and a lot of other folks included.

A week will tell, or not. However when the accuser has at least 3 go fund me pages with 900K and climbing, I really donít think she is going to suffer financially, unfortunately both families have been harmed beyond repair, all because somebody didnít follow committee rules.

Again, pathetic.
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 19:15
  #16024 (permalink)  
 
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"The lady that was hired to ask the questions on behalf of the Republicans is a certified sex crimes investigator, the one that interviews and says book em Danno, or not. She has done this for 20 years, even she says there is not enough evidence to even obtain a search warrant, let alone anything else."

Flittit, you seem to have missed something there. The woman was speaking of the evidence available to her so far about this affair, what Kavanaugh had done or not done to Dr. Ford when he was 17 and she was 15. At the end of the hearing, Republican senator Jeff Flake said something very different, that he needed to see what further evidence an FBI investigation might turn up about this.

That woman was doing the job she had been hired to do, to ask certain questions and, if possible, to come to the conclusion she came to. If Kavanaugh had played it like "Perry Mason" instead of "Hawaii Five-Oh" then he would had stood up and said, "Yes, I did it! I climbed on top of her and I tried to rip her clothes off but she wanted me to do that! I could tell!"

After that the bailiffs grabbed him, cuffed him, and dragged him off to the cells ... except that this was reality, not a TV program.

Just calm down, flittit; have a think about the literal meaning of what that woman said, at the time she said it, and why she said what she did. Then wait to see what the FBI digs up from now until Friday about Bart O'Kavanaugh's school days.
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 20:06
  #16025 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chuks View Post
"The lady that was hired to ask the questions on behalf of the Republicans is a certified sex crimes investigator, the one that interviews and says book em Danno, or not. She has done this for 20 years, even she says there is not enough evidence to even obtain a search warrant, let alone anything else."

Flittit, you seem to have missed something there. The woman was speaking of the evidence available to her so far about this affair, what Kavanaugh had done or not done to Dr. Ford when he was 17 and she was 15. At the end of the hearing, Republican senator Jeff Flake said something very different, that he needed to see what further evidence an FBI investigation might turn up about this.

That woman was doing the job she had been hired to do, to ask certain questions and, if possible, to come to the conclusion she came to. If Kavanaugh had played it like "Perry Mason" instead of "Hawaii Five-Oh" then he would had stood up and said, "Yes, I did it! I climbed on top of her and I tried to rip her clothes off but she wanted me to do that! I could tell!"

After that the bailiffs grabbed him, cuffed him, and dragged him off to the cells ... except that this was reality, not a TV program.

Just calm down, flittit; have a think about the literal meaning of what that woman said, at the time she said it, and why she said what she did. Then wait to see what the FBI digs up from now until Friday about Bart O'Kavanaugh's school days.
Absolutely Chuks,

She said: Had no idea how she got there, no idea where it was, no idea how she got home, no idea of the day/date, even the month. But she only had one beer.

And that hat is enough to be believed?

I know where there is a bridge to far for sale Chuks, perhaps you would be interested?

The FBI report should be interesting, but it wonít say yay or nay to either party.
The facts maíam, just the facts, and then it goes back to the very same folks that created this mess in the first place, for their interpretation.
Only in America.

Oh well, care to take a side bet as to what the delay is required for?
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 20:44
  #16026 (permalink)  
 
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As to the time of the incident, there's her testimony about encountering Judge working at a local market as a bag boy not long afterwards. It might be possible to figure out the time of the incident by working backwards from his time of employment, which can be established by pay records from the market.

I lived in part of that area (Bethesda, Chevy Chase, Friendship Heights, NW D.C.) for quite a few years. It's densely settled with a lot of houses that all look quite similar, so that some confusion on her part is understandable.

Anyway, there is a lot of evidence, despite your contention that there is almost none. You might be surprised by what the FBI can turn up using a combination of trained interrogators and the threat of having to do time if you are caught lying to the FBI.

Wasn't someone here just bragging that Kavanaugh was sure to be confirmed? Is that such a sure thing now, with the FBI on his trail?
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 20:54
  #16027 (permalink)  

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I know a couple of "naughty boys" from my schooldays who went on to be despicable, thoroughly unpleasant people.
I also know some bad boys who went on to become decent, kind and civic minded people.

I'm sorry, but Christine Blasey Ford's "Moving Testimony" did not "move" me, although she may well believe what she said.
Kavanaugh's lachrymose denial was pure Victorian melodrama, as skillfully accomplished as the lawyer that he is.

After 30 years, there is no way of proving or disproving this alleged incident - if it did occur, then she missed her chance by not reporting it at the time. Tough bananas.

My doubts about Kavanaugh's political stance or his suitability for a Supreme Court Justice, likewise have nothing to do with the matter.

The whole thing reeks of a venerable political process that has been systematically purchased on both sides by a handful of enormously wealthy persons who have made a mockery of the Founding Fathers, the Constitution and the American ideal.

Behind all the pretense, America is ruled not by a Government of the People, by the People and for the People but by a supremely wealthy oligarchy that Trump (unlike Putin) has neither the balls nor the ability to control.

Mac
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 21:20
  #16028 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=Mac the Knife;10261888]I know a couple of "naughty boys" from my schooldays who went on to be despicable, thoroughly unpleasant people.
I also know some bad boys who went on to become decent, kind and civic minded people.

I'm sorry, but Christine Blasey Ford's "Moving Testimony" did not "move" me, although she may well believe what she said.
Kavanaugh's lachrymose denial was pure Victorian melodrama, as skillfully accomplished as the lawyer that he is.

After 30 years, there is no way of proving or disproving this alleged incident - if it did occur, then she missed her chance by not reporting it at the time. Tough bananas.

My doubts about Kavanaugh's political stance or his suitability for a Supreme Court Justice, likewise have nothing to do with the matter.

The whole thing reeks of a venerable political process that has been systematically purchased on both sides by a handful of enormously wealthy persons who have made a mockery of the Founding Fathers, the Constitution and the American ideal.

Behind all the pretense, America is ruled not by a Government of the People, by the People and for the People but by a supremely wealthy oligarchy that Trump (unlike Putin) has neither the balls nor the ability to control.

Mac[/QUOTE

Couldnt agree more Mac, Trump, if anything is in the unenviable position of thinking and trying to do more, however the good ship of state, deep state if you wish will resist any attempt to change course.
The Supremes are supposed to abide by, and rule in accordance with laws passed by Congress, independent of all else.
problem is an awful lot of Congress folk are ex lawyers/judges, writing laws you can drive a semi through, vague as hell at the edges, then either side relys on ďtheirĒ supremes to interpret the law as they wish.
Give and take, share the pie, until the swing seat is in play.
Roe vs Wade, swing seat, mid terms, the end justify the means
We, the American people are responsible for this childish behavior by both sides, we keep voting them back in expecting miracles they promise to gain your vote.

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Old 30th Sep 2018, 00:09
  #16029 (permalink)  
 
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Look, the only reason Trump and Grassless agreed to the FBI investigation is to satisfy Jeff Flake. He said he wont confirm without it, and they neeed every vote. His name says it all. He truly is a Flake, and only interested in Trump bashing.

The FBI will turn up nothing we dont already know. Zilch.

The only thing remaining is whether or not Kavanaugh will accept the job if the vote is to confirm. He might very well just go ahead and say F-off, I just donít need this crap.
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Old 30th Sep 2018, 02:41
  #16030 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chuks View Post
WC, hang on until the end of next week. Want to bet that the FBI turns up some more evidence?

You guys could get lucky; there could be FBI evidence supporting Kavanaugh.
And if the FBI turns up evidence that Kavanaugh was not involved and is innocent of all charges, are you going to accept that or say "Well they would say that because..." and claim a conspiracy / coverup?

Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?
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Old 30th Sep 2018, 02:47
  #16031 (permalink)  
 
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I'm hugely sceptical when folk are relying on memory from the past. Was at a reunion and related a story to a course mate "remember when we....". He later produced documentary evidence that my story was absolute clap trap, yet I would have sworn on the proverbial stack of bibles as to its veracity. In a similar vein the US Government gave me an award eleven years after the event, yet my recollection is the vaguest of "we did do something", details being non existent, other than what the award cites, which itself provokes no memory.
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Old 30th Sep 2018, 03:47
  #16032 (permalink)  
 
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WC, hang on until the end of next week.
Chuks, if by that you mean we should wait till after the FBI investigates, we’re in agreement.

If the FBI determines there’s a “there” there, I say investigate further. If they say this is a nothingburger, will you consider the matter closed? You and your ilk are all with the FBI nosing around, certainly you’re prepared for it to not go your way.

What’s the backup plan if they find nothing?

- Trump intimidated witnesses.
​​​​​​- Senate Republicans intimidated witnesses.
- Trump and/or Republicans secretly ordered FBI to overlook evidence.
- Truly need local law enforcement to investigate.

What else Chuks?
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Old 30th Sep 2018, 05:04
  #16033 (permalink)  
 
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WC, it's not just Dr. Ford's account, which is somewhat fuzzy on time and place. There is also Ms. Ramirez' account of that incident at Yale, which is of a different sort.

This last-minute agreement to what really should have been done first, an FBI investigation, came as a surprise to everyone, Personally, I assume that it should turn up evidence supporting the claims made by both Ford and Ramirez (only Ford was heard by those senators) about how Kavanaugh behaved during his time at Georgetown Prep and at Yale.

In fact, the second incident might be more damaging to Kavanaugh for several reasons:

1. He was an adult during his time at Yale, over 18 years of age.

2. The time and place is more precise.

3- There were supposedly first- and secondhand witnesses to the incident when it occurred and right afterwards, plus it fits well with some of what we have been told, including by Kavanaugh himself, about his time at Yale.

All in all, even if he skates on both accusations (both are probably past the statute of limitations so that there should be no risk of a prosecution), I think there might be such an accumulation of sordid detail that this guy won't even be acceptable to Republicans who manage to stomach Trump. Senator Flake already had one "Come to Jesus!" moment over this, when all it will take is two Republicans voting against Kavanaugh to sink his chances, assuming he gets no Democratic votes.

On the other hand, Republicans have been surprisingly willing to go along with whatever disgusting stuff Trump asks them to, so that we might end up with this clearly defective man on the Supreme Court. He was set for being rammed through committee until late in the process, when a 51-49 vote for his confirmation was then very, very likely despite other, numerous reasons for his being unsuitable that were already common knowledge.

It will be surprising if Kavanaugh makes it onto the Supreme Court, but if he does then that will pretty much be that: another defeat for democracy. (Clarence Thomas got away clean despite allegations of sex abuse, and he sits on the Court until this day.)

Then it will just be on to the next thing, waiting to see what happens in the mid-term elections, and whether that means finally getting to see the Donald's mysterious tax returns. Then there are a couple of lawsuits to keep us entertained watching Trump rave; he makes an easy target.
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Old 30th Sep 2018, 13:23
  #16034 (permalink)  

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"Jeff Flake...said he wont confirm without it, and they need every vote. His name says it all. He truly is a Flake, and only interested in Trump bashing."

Well, though I don't agree with some of his positions, Flake seems to come nearer to traditional Republican values than the rest on 'em. Pity he's dropping out. At least he has the balls to say "Boo!" to DJT, even if he does have a tendency to cave at the last minute.

"The FBI will turn up nothing we don't already know. Zilch."

Agree. Just a pointless charade to be gone through.

Mac
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Old 30th Sep 2018, 15:01
  #16035 (permalink)  
 
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Had Kavanaugh been a woman he would have been called hysterical, unhinged and too emotional after his yelling and crying bit. Then there is him lying about 'boofing' and ' Devil's triangle'. Often when people lie about small things it is to keep larger things hidden. That he believes in conspiracy theories and shows clear political bias are just more reasons why he should not have a seat on the SC.
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Old 30th Sep 2018, 16:47
  #16036 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by One Outsider View Post
Had Kavanaugh been a woman he would have been called hysterical, unhinged and too emotional after his yelling and crying bit. Then there is him lying about 'boofing' and ' Devil's triangle'. Often when people lie about small things it is to keep larger things hidden. That he believes in conspiracy theories and shows clear political bias are just more reasons why he should not have a seat on the SC.
So you have interviewed, confirmed and judged that he is lying, perhaps you should call the FBI and tell them not to bother with any investigation, you have the truth.

This process of throwing out uncorroborated, at this point in time, accusations only confirms that any group can do this as a means to an end, facts and collateral damage to all involved be damned.

I sincerely hope that you or one of your male family members never find yourselves on the wrong side one of those special interest groups, be it your fault or not.
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Old 30th Sep 2018, 17:48
  #16037 (permalink)  
 
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You protest too much, fltlt. Yet, you slipped in a ... at this point in time... as insurance.

Kavanaugh's former classmates at Georgetown Prep have been interviewed and none of them said 'boofing' or 'Devil's triangle' referred to flatulence or a drinking game. What are the odds that Kavanaugh went though school being the only one who believed this and up to this day never discovered that he was the only one?
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Old 30th Sep 2018, 18:40
  #16038 (permalink)  
 
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Kavanaugh's former classmates at Georgetown Prep have been interviewed and none of them said 'boofing' or 'Devil's triangle' referred to flatulence or a drinking game
How do we know they didn't use those words?
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Old 30th Sep 2018, 19:51
  #16039 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post
How do we know they didn't use those words?
Good point. In today's hypersensitive atmosphere even to admit knowledge of the terms would be enough.

Mac
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Old 30th Sep 2018, 20:47
  #16040 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post
How do we know they didn't use those words?
Because the internet says so, again no need for the FBI to conduct its confidential investigation, these folks know it all.
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