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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 23rd Aug 2018, 01:53
  #15501 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
West Coast

In his position, the post mortem has already begun as opposed to your assertion. The Speaker of the House has removed him from a key committee position he held. Your position is why I would be careful to not accuse other posters for not responding to issues you raise, if you get my point.
If you voluntarily choose to align your beliefs and words wrt Hunter with those of politicians and TV pundits, all I can do is counsel you that it isn't wise.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 02:12
  #15502 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Concours77 View Post


The spew is not generated in the same way.

When I was young, I asked my Dad about something I read in the paper (San Francisco Chronicle, sometimes the Oakland Tribune.) The topic escapes me, but essentially there was discussion re some legislation, and two Senators were quoted.

Ted Kennedy, and Strom Thurmond. “Senator Kennedy has said.....” “Arch Conservative Strom Thurmond responded...”

So the Press identifies Kennedy as “Senator” and Thurmond as “Arch Conservative....”

It’s like this: When a Democrat is challenged by an opponent, the opponent points out where he is wrong. When A Republican is challenged, he is not only wrong, he is a bad person. “Racist, homophobe, bigot, knuckle dragger, etc.”

Take some time, watch how they do it....


seriously

Well actually no, thats what's called cognitive bias. You only notice the insults against your own side. For instance in the the UK it is the leader of the Labour Party, far to the left of Sanders, who is being accused of being racist. Despite a lifetime campaigning against it.

In the US lefties get called the worst of all insults, 'liberals' or 'socialists'. Because for a lot of Americans wanting to give people healthcare, is worse than sexual assault. What an embarrassment. Some here would have continued claiming a witch hunt against Nixon long after he resigned. Society today really is scraping the barrel. People don't care what is right, just the other team losing. Some should really take a look at themselves and what they are enabling. A guy who avoided the draft and so petty he can't say John McCains name and said 'I prefer people who werent captured'.

I can only assume many of you see a resemblance in his character.

And now for something completely different

​​​​​​https://youtu.be/yp_l5ntikaU

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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 03:48
  #15503 (permalink)  
 
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Well said...

[QUOTE=neila83;10231130]Well actually no, thats what's called cognitive bias. You only notice the insults against your own side. For instance in the the UK it is the leader of the Labour Party, far to the left of Sanders, who is being accused of being racist. Despite a lifetime campaigning against it.

In the US lefties get called the worst of all insults, 'liberals' or 'socialists'. Because for a lot of Americans wanting to give people healthcare, is worse than sexual assault. What an embarrassment. Some here would have continued claiming a witch hunt against Nixon long after he resigned. Society today really is scraping the barrel. People don't care what is right, just the other team losing. Some should really take a look at themselves and what they are enabling. A guy who avoided the draft and so petty he can't say John McCains name and said 'I prefer people who werent captured'.

I can only assume many of you see a resemblance in his character.

And now for something completely different

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​Then there is the victim card, I speak of the Press, though since the advent of the “Internet’s”, it gets better. You have missed my point. We all are individuals, and can say what we like. The Press is an institution, and we have noted for years the obvious bias, slander and poorly disguised invective coming from the Press. I ran for office three times in ten years, each time attacked by the Left Press.

Do you know who Mollie Tibbitts is? Of course not, she is white, came from Iowa and does not fit the industrial narrative of the yellow Press.
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Did you see my exchange with Turbine D? Objectivity is like oxygen, or Gold, most of it stolen and squirreled away by the Main Stream outlets. Manna, Nectar.

The Press’ Bias needs to be experienced, it cannot be Sussed by far away observation.

The roots of progressivism began in the early 1900’s, in the womb of eugenics, racism, elitism, and fascism.

It has morphed into a chilling specter of political correctness, double speak, propaganda and evil. I believe in the American Process; lab rats like Clinton and Trump cannot win. It takes time, our process is slow, we will prevail.

Here’s to England Neila.



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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 04:54
  #15504 (permalink)  
 
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US govt cannot "give" anything to the citizenry which it does not previously "take" from the self-same group. This includes forms of welfare, which is part of the duty of the US govt under the constitution in the article concerning 'provide for the common defense and general welfare'. If one postulates that a health care system be socialized and offered through a govt giving, then one must take means from the citizens to fund it. Now, we come to the crux of the biscuit. Another part of the same set of rules says that all 'duties, and excises must be uniform throughout the US'. This means, simply put that taxation must be applied consistently across the board.

Which leads to a progressive income tax, and how it is legal. Well - it isn't. Through several bits of legal legerdemain by the writers of the tax code in the early part of the prev century, it was designed so that all people across the spectrum of the nation were supposedly taxes. But not at the same rate. And so began the big tax lie, and the means to fund all kinds of socialized BS, and we are back to state run health care.

I'm sure there are a lot of Americans who want to 'give' health care to everyone. It sounds wonderful. Now, lets decide how to tax EVERYONE for it because lets face it - everyone needs health care, some more than others, but everyone needs it. Some rhetorical questions; Who in the state sets prices for doctors? Nurses? Sliding scale, like for armed forces officers? Bonus pay for specialists? Prescriptions? new drug research? Basically, does the fedguv control everything health-wise? We're talking trillions, in a budget that is already way oversubscribed. Is that the best use of tax dollars?

Explain the costs to the great unwashed. Let them know that not only will they be taxed for it, but the govt will begin making health decisions which were in the realm of the doctor/patient before. No thanks.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 05:58
  #15505 (permalink)  
 
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I have deliberately lived in two countries that have universal health care in two very, very different styles. In both I have found good to excellent care when we needed it.
What the USA has is not a helath care system as such but an insurance system in which, by and large, those who can afford it are cared for by an industry that charges the highest prices it thinks those people and their insurance can afford. It seems medicare is not able to cope with the remainder of the population. I know there are differences in taxes etc but surely it should be possible for the richest country in the world to provide decent healthcare for its whole population.

The argument that you don't want your healthcare decisions made by government is cr*p. They are already made by government and the insurers just as ours are made by government and administrators.

Both the systems I have lived within have their flaws, some of them serious but I'd far, far rather have either one of them that that in the USA.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 06:34
  #15506 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by neila83 View Post
For instance in the the UK it is the leader of the Labour Party, far to the left of Sanders, who is being accused of being racist. Despite a lifetime campaigning against it.
Corbyn is one of those weird racists, exclusive to the left. He gives open and unequivocal support to anyone who wishes to annihilate his own race.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 06:45
  #15507 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting ....

Do I know who Mollie Tibbets is? No I don't, because she "does not fit the industrial narrative of the yellow Press [sic]." This according to Concours 77.

Actually, sadly, of course I know who she is, as do many others who simply keep up with the news. I was just reading about Ms. Tibbetts on the BBC website, where they informed me in some detail about how a Mexican migrant allegedly killed her. So much for her demise being kept secret by the "yellow Press." (That term does not mean what Concours 77 seems to think it does. Papers such as the National Enquirer ("B-29 Bomber Found on Moon!") make up the yellow press. Papers such as the New York Times and the Washington Post are not part of the yellow press.)

I guess what Ethical Conondom wants is a clip showing Trump saying in so many words that "Some neo-Nazis are fine people." All we have is a clip that, taken as a whole, does have Trump putting that across loud and clear, albeit not in so many words. It's clear to a reasonable person that there Trump was pandering to a large part of his base, racist whites, what Hillary was so unwise as to call "the deplorables." Her doing that was like shooting at a grizzly bear with a BB gun. (You might hit him right between the eyes with a well-aimed shot, but it's only going to make him angry.) She merely helped get out the vote for Trump from the alt-right. ("Alt-right" is a term coined by Richard Spencer to describe the far-right lunatic fringe. There is no "alt-left" as such.)
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 09:26
  #15508 (permalink)  
 
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Do you think that Manafort has kept quiet out of loyalty to Trump or that he fears for his life more from the Russian side of the equation? They do seem to despatch foes firmly and frequently.

We all know that Manafort had been working with some pretty rough folks when advising in the Ukraine who might not look favourably upon his opening discussions on their matters.

Or could it be that this trial was on tax evasion and all things Russian could be raised in his next round in court in September?

Does it really matter though? Trump will probably pardon him so I cannot imagine he is too concerned about much.

Not knowing who Duncan Hunter was but noticing the above comnents I read an article or two about him this morning. As Concours mentions re. the temptations of office, he really went off the rails. Not my place to second guess his money managemt strategies within the home, but there were obviously some failures in that area--particulary in not getting a reduced fare ticket for the pet rabbit. Maybe permanent campaigning opens one to those tugs and pulls.

Around the world The U.S. Marines have a sterling reputation for personal integrity and I imagine that is what must hurt him most looking in the mirror every morning.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 11:29
  #15509 (permalink)  
 
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I've always thought that if a national government or compilation of state governments feel that funding and operating unemployment insurance schemes for those who have lost their jobs, a benefit the majority of people will not use in their lifetimes, is a needed instrument, there is more than enough justification for an unhealthy insurance plan that, most assuredly, every single citizen will be in need of at sometime, and often repeatedly.

You fund it the same way.

On Manafort, I will always have trouble drumming up one iota of respect for someone who thinks owning a $15,000 Ostrich skin jacket, is cool.

And are there actually morons who go out to shoot doves in a charity event for fallen servicemen?
Can someone point me to the moron-in-charge who thought that one up?
I feel like committing some serious criminal assault on behalf of some birds.

Last edited by meadowrun; 23rd Aug 2018 at 11:58.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 13:48
  #15510 (permalink)  
 
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 13:59
  #15511 (permalink)  
 
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West Coast:
If you voluntarily choose to align your beliefs and words wrt Hunter with those of politicians and TV pundits, all I can do is counsel you that it isn't wise.
I didn't, I read the indictment. I think Paul Ryan did as well. I suspect you didn't. so here is another chance for you to do that:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...aily202&wpmm=1
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 14:34
  #15512 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
West Coast:

I didn't, I read the indictment. I think Paul Ryan did as well. I suspect you didn't. so here is another chance for you to do that:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4779551/Hunter-Indictment-18CR3677-W.pdf?wpisrc=nl_daily202&wpmm=1
There you go making assumptions. Not sure why posters on anonymous boards make assumptions they have no way of knowing the veracity of. Usually that sophomoric tact is weeded out in high school debate class.

As Hunter represents my district and San Diego has more than a few media outlets, I’m seeing wall to wall coverage. He will have his day in court. If for political gain a politician wants to try this in the court of political theatre, just remember that you doing the same drops you down into the muck. I’ll prefer to hear the outcome from the courthouse not from the kabuki theatre.




Last edited by West Coast; 23rd Aug 2018 at 16:55.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 14:34
  #15513 (permalink)  
 
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Interest in SA

Trump has developed an interest in SA. Too bad he doesn't get his facts straight before he tweets. Guess it is his short attention span and his major source of information that is problematic.

JOHANNESBURG (AP) — The South African government lashed out at President Donald Trump on Thursday after he tweeted that his administration would be looking into farm seizures and the "large scale killing of farmers" in South Africa.
The government said Trump's tweet was based on "false information" and reflected a "narrow perception which only seeks to divide our nation and reminds us of our colonial past." It said it was meeting with the U.S. Embassy on Thursday as it seeks to clarify Trump's remarks.
South Africa is in the throes of a racially charged national debate over land reform, a lawful process that seeks to correct the legacy of decades of white minority rule that stripped blacks of their land.
Today, nearly a quarter-century after the first democratic elections, black South Africans, who comprise 80 percent of the population, still own just 4 percent of the country's land, according to the government.
Though the ruling African National Congress, which has been in power since 1994, has pledged to close that gap, progress has been slow. In July, President Cyril Ramaphosa said his party would amend the constitution so the state could expropriate land without compensation to speed up the land reform process.
Trump's tweet followed a segment on Fox News on Wednesday in which host Tucker Carlson claimed Ramaphosa had already started "seizing land from his own citizens without compensation because they are the wrong skin color," calling the alleged seizures "immoral."
Though South Africa's constitution has not yet been amended and the government has not seized any major agricultural land, the prospect has sent panic through some white farming communities who worry the policy will strip them of their land, cause land prices to plummet or make them the target of potentially violent land seizures.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 14:46
  #15514 (permalink)  
 
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West Coast:
There you go making assumptions. Not sure why posters on anonymous boards make assumptions they have no way of knowing the veracity of. Usually that sophomoric tact is weeded out in high school debate class.
If you voluntarily choose to align your beliefs and words wrt Hunter with those of politicians and TV pundits, all I can do is counsel you that it isn't wise.
Just correcting your assumption hedged with an "if". You can come down out of the pulpit now, the sermon time is over...
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 15:06
  #15515 (permalink)  
 
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“The fruit of the poisoned tree.” South Africa is America’s Hawaii. Stealing land and establishing “structure” to legitimize the theft is patent throughout, and never been “not a crime”.

So. Here come reparations. The passage of time can not make true the lie. Perhaps at no time on Earth has there been such extreme potential for revolution.

Profit which flows from crime are not profits. I suggest that it is as Jimmy Carter said, decades ago, when asked “what is the most dangerous problem we face?”

”It is simply this: the disparity of wealth between the rich and poor.”

I blame Adam, the worlds’ First realtor.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 15:19
  #15516 (permalink)  
 
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As far as I can see Trump's whole claim to the presidency is “fruit of the poisoned tree.”. It is now beyond any doubt that he ran an illegal campaign with staff who undertook criminal acts at his direction to get into the white house, so in any sane, rational system he would have to stand down and face the criminal charges with their attendant penalties. A presidency that flows from crime should not be a presidency.

But of course it's not a sane, rational system. It's a republican-dominated US system which means that it prqises and values criminal behaviour, has no moral compass to speak of and is corrupt to the core.

Your monkey, your circus. But thanks for the entertainment...

PDR
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 15:32
  #15517 (permalink)  
 
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Arrogance or desperation?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45285585

US President Donald Trump has responded to speculation that he might be impeached by warning that any such move would damage the economy.In an interview with Fox & Friends, he said the market would crash and "everybody would be very poor".
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 16:06
  #15518 (permalink)  

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"I don't know how you can impeach somebody who's done a great job," Mr Trump told Fox and Friends.
"I tell you what, if I ever got impeached, I think the market would crash, I think everybody would be very poor."

Pointing to his head, he said: "Because without this thinking, you would see numbers that you wouldn't believe in reverse."

The entire stock-market depending on DJT's thinking? Somehow I doubt it.
[We get the Right Reverend Pence instead, think that would do it?]

So it goes...
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 16:16
  #15519 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
As far as I can see Trump's whole claim to the presidency is “fruit of the poisoned tree.”. It is now beyond any doubt that he ran an illegal campaign with staff who undertook criminal acts at his direction to get into the white house, so in any sane, rational system he would have to stand down and face the criminal charges with their attendant penalties. A presidency that flows from crime should not be a presidency.

But of course it's not a sane, rational system. It's a republican-dominated US system which means that it prqises and values criminal behaviour, has no moral compass to speak of and is corrupt to the core.

Your monkey, your circus. But thanks for the entertainment...

PDR
It gets old, being forced to answer for Trump. He hasn’t a clue.

Look PDR, this is not a Republican/Democrat thing. Elections are corrupt in equal measure, To think or believe the Trump campaign is different from Clinton's is simply abjectly ignorant,

America started out in righteous fervor, and has gone the predictable way of opportunist crooks and DB’s.

The present is Always fruit of the past. Trying to pin our woes on Trump is childish, and in the case of those who know better, deceitful.....

Toodle Pip, eh?
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 16:26
  #15520 (permalink)  
 
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Uncle Fred,
Do you think that Manafort has kept quiet out of loyalty to Trump or that he fears for his life more from the Russian side of the equation? They do seem to despatch foes firmly and frequently.
We all know that Manafort had been working with some pretty rough folks when advising in the Ukraine who might not look favourably upon his opening discussions on their matters.
Or could it be that this trial was on tax evasion and all things Russian could be raised in his next round in court in September?
Does it really matter though? Trump will probably pardon him so I cannot imagine he is too concerned about much.
I think the Manafort's legal situation is much more complicated than that of Cohen's legal situation. Cohen pled guilty to cooperate with the government and receive a lighter sentence. He probably also sensed that Trump would throw him under the bus anyway, so he threw Trump under the bus first.

The Manafort situation is different. He did not plead and was convicted of 8 criminal counts, he faces up to 80 years in prison for the counts he was found guilty on. I don't think Manafort thought he would be found guilty. Now Trump has been pumping him up for being a loyal soldier, perhaps with the thought Manafort will stay loyal or attempt to keep him loyal. Pardoning Manafort comes with risks for Trump. Although Trump can say at this point that Manafort's conviction has nothing to do with him, it may not hold water in the future. Manafort's tax evasion and the Russian election interference investigation are linked. A pardon eliminates Manafort of protection under the 5th Amendment of the US Constitution, e.g., protection from self-incrimination. He would have to answer all questions directed at him if he was required to testify before Congress.

There was a memo written by Deputy Attorney General, Rob Rosenstein authorizing the Special Prosecutor to investigate if Manafort committed a crime or crimes in colluding with the Russian Government and their efforts to interfere with the 2016 US election and if the money or part of the money Manafort received through the Ukraine Government before and during Viktor Yanukovych's reign as President of the Ukraine was part of the Russian election interference. In other words, follow the money trail. So Trump's potential pardoning of Manafort opens up pandora's box as Manafort would have to testify and answer all questions without any fear of prosecution in the Russian collusion situation yet to unfold. Politically, it would probably not go down well. Manafort could still, prior to sentencing, ask for a shorter prison sentence by cooperating with the Government on the Russian investigation if he chose to do that and that may be part of the game being played.
It should be interesting to see how this entire chess game plays out...
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