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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 22nd Aug 2018, 17:27
  #15481 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle America
Age: 79
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West Coast,

It was disheartening to read about Duncan Hunter, Republican Congressman from California's 50th District. Duncan had everything going for him, a respected community citizen and a wife and three young children. He completed 3 tours of duty as a US Marine officer, two in Iraq and one in Afghanistan before running for Congress. I don't know if he represents the district where you live but he was a strong conservative. Both he and his wife have been indicted for using more than $250,000 of campaign funds, charged on a campaign fund credit card for personal use and covering it up claiming in some instances it was used for charity donations, etc. It's very sad this happens to what appears to be solid honorable citizens, but it does and it transcends beyond politics. You just have to wonder at times why it winds up like this...
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 17:34
  #15482 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
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TurbineD

Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
West Coast,

It was disheartening to read about Duncan Hunter, Republican Congressman from California's 50th District. Duncan had everything going for him, a respected community citizen and a wife and three young children. He completed 3 tours of duty as a US Marine officer, two in Iraq and one in Afghanistan before running for Congress. I don't know if he represents the district where you live but he was a strong conservative. Both he and his wife have been indicted for using more than $250,000 of campaign funds, charged on a campaign fund credit card for personal use and covering it up claiming in some instances it was used for charity donations, etc. It's very sad this happens to what appears to be solid honorable citizens, but it does and it transcends beyond politics. You just have to wonder at times why it winds up like this...
Well done. Duke Cunningham also. Having some experience in politics, I can tell you it can be addictive, and generally does NOT bring out the best in people otherwise well adjusted. After my third election, I took a personal inventory, and realized politics had chipped away at my integrity. I quit. That was twenty years ago. Politics requires too much compromise, not enough principle, imo. At least for me.

thanks
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 17:44
  #15483 (permalink)  
 
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Well Turbine, look up Wild Bill Hawrelak as an example.
After an excellent landing etc.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 18:21
  #15484 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
ethical,

It seems to me where you live in the Republic of Texas, only the good news about Trump is received, the bad news is censored. To bring to you a reference, dated as it is, take a good look at this FOX video, turn your volume up, watch and listened... Next time, try an internet search site on your own, unless those are censored as well...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqc9TeemrKo
It's interesting. You put up a sound bite, from a news organization that has no Trump content at all. Two loudmouths jerking themselves off about what Trump didn't say. So, I asked for a reference - specifically about Trump calling "home grown Nazis" as 'good people'. I ask, because yes - I've tried to find it, and I can't. You see - I find a lot of media types saying that it happened, and that Trump specifically said it, but when I go through the archives of his commentary I can't find it anywhere.

Sure, I can find lots of commentary about what others think they heard, or what they mistakenly reported, or what they conjecture he meant, but there is no actual text, recording, or video that I can find to support this alleged 'good people' statement regarding "home grown Nazis". Sadly, it's very hard to find the statement, and impossible to find the video of Trump's remarks on the internet. Why do you think that is? As best I can find, here is the closest thing I have to his remarks on Aug 12 2017, note the literal quotes, which in my grammar class meant these are actual statements, and not an inference, or otherwise modified:
Trump - in response to a shouted question from media pool: “What about the alt-left that came charging at, as you say, at the alt-right?” “Do they have any semblance of guilt?”“I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me,” he said.“You had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists,” Trump said. “The press has treated them absolutely unfairly.”

“You also had some very fine people on both sides,” he said.
I've bolded the parts I consider to be important. First - Trump condemns the neo-Nazis as he as done on many occasions in the past - but it's not reported by the press. I could go hunt it down, in obscure places, or maybe even the WH journal, but it's not reported. Why is that? Do you suppose Trump condemning neo-Nazis is not what the press wants to hear? Second - He expressed that there was very fine people on both sides. Any interpretation now that everyone protesting in Charlottesville that day was a neo-Nazi is completely off the rails. There were southern baptists in the protest, there were alt-right demonstrators, there were alt-left demonstrators, there were communists, there were socialist, there were all kinds of politically active people some of which WERE neo-Nazis. But the press - as it is wont to do, likes to slander any one who is a frothing left wing progressive as a Nazi. Here a Nazi, there a Nazi, if you don't wear a scarf around your face, and swing a Che Guevara banner, that automatically makes one a Nazi. It's painting everyone to the right of Bernie Sanders as a Nazi, and we aren't going to have it.

So - you fail. You always fail. You promise, but you fail. And in failing, you show up with the actual 'fake news' that Trump tells us about. Please, stop failing. I know it's hard, but try to find actual quotes, from actual people, in actual context. As for the remarks after this statement, which the press took out of context, and also got wrong, and also opinioned on the erroneous reporting, go find some place where Trump has ever praised any Nazi, neo-Nazi. Good luck, because - before I ask for a reference, you can bet that I've done my diligence and looked carefully.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 20:08
  #15485 (permalink)  
 
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Here you go.

Pay attention at 1:08, when you can hear Trump braying that there were fine people on both sides at Charlottesville.

What some people overlook is that neo-Nazi scum also do vote, and that they mostly vote for Donald Trump, I think. Trump is aiming this pitch at neo-Nazi scum, most probably for that very reason.

It took me about two minutes to find this clip, link it, and write this post too. What is your problem, EC, that you can not even find the clip? Are you just another stable genius, like Trump?
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 20:37
  #15486 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
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"Journalist" Mat Frei gets his arse handed to him by Alan Dershowitz on C4 News this evening...

Frei introduced Dershowitz as "an unofficial advisor to Donald Trump". Dershowitz, angrily:" That is false. Don't you EVER repeat that again". Frei flustered and apologises.

"What are us Brits to make of the USA political morality".

"Don't you lecture us when you have an antisemite, Jeremy Corbyn, in charge of your Labour party . Someone who hates Jews and hates Israel......and if you would like to have someone debate that with me I welcome it"

First, Kathy Newman and now Frei. How much do they pay those buffoons?
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 21:10
  #15487 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting ....

So the UK-based journalist asked the Harvard professor a question about political morality in the USA, when the Harvard professor evaded that question by calling it "lecturing" and then raising an unrelated issue, the anti-Semitism of Jeremy Corbin.

Nice one, Professor! Fake a bit of moral outrage as a Jew suddenly confronted by British anti-Semitism. You used that to avoid answering a perfectly fair question about the current state of political morality in the USA, confronted as we now are by a President having been implicated in a federal crime by his former accomplice. You might as well refuse to answer a similar question from a German journo by citing the the rise of anti-Semitism in Germany. It's BS to do that, but it worked, so ....

In case anyone missed it, Michael Cohen just pleaded guilty to having violated campaign finance law, a felony under federal law, when he said that had been done at the behest of Donald Trump. There we have it, a sitting President implicated in a federal crime! Why not ask about political morality in light of this startling development, and never mind who is doing the asking?

The violation was done by Cohen spending $280,000 to keep two of Trump's sex partners quiet about Trump's misbehavior, when that coming to light would have affected his campaign. Done for that reason the spending counted as campaign contributions that were far over the limit, by about $270,000.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 21:36
  #15488 (permalink)  
 
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Good For Your Evening Read

ethical,
Good luck, because - before I ask for a reference, you can bet that I've done my diligence and looked carefully.
Have you really?
Richard Spencer, a prominent white nationalist, said Tuesday that, despite President Trump's remarks denouncing white supremacists and neo-Nazis, the president has yet to condemn the alt-right.

"Trump has never denounced the Alt-Right. Nor will he," Spencer wrote on Twitter.

Speaking at a campaign-style rally in Phoenix on Tuesday night, Trump insisted that he sufficiently denounced hate groups after violence erupted during a white nationalist demonstration in Charlottesville, Va., earlier this month.

Instead, he said, the media failed to accurately cover his remarks in the wake of the violence that left one counterprotester dead.

"They don’t report the facts. Just like they don’t want to report that I spoke out forcefully against hatred, bigotry and violence and strongly condemned the neo-Nazis the white supremacists and the KKK," he said.

But Trump made no mention of his initial claim in the aftermath of the violence that "many sides" were responsible for the mayhem — a claim that drew fire from both Democrats and Republicans.
BTW, Richard Spencer coined the term "alt-right" to minimize the weight the term Neo-Nazi carries...
Richard Spencer’s video:

Also, the US Military weighed in:
Trump’s generals condemn Charlottesville racism — while trying not to offend the president

Updated 8/15/17 ALEXANDRIA, Va. ― Richard Spencer, the 39-year-old white nationalist leader, said Monday that he did not take President Donald Trump’s statement denouncing hate groups seriously, and two of Spencer’s associates shared a somewhat similar sentiment with HuffPost.

“The statement today was more Kumbaya nonsense,” Spencer said, speaking to reporters in his office and part-time home in Alexandria, Virginia. “He sounded like a Sunday school teacher. I just don’t take him seriously ... it sounded so hollow and vapid.”

Trump’s statement Monday was technically his most direct denunciation of white supremacy in the wake of violent protests in Charlottesville, Virginia, over the weekend that left three dead and at least 35 injured. But for a president who is quick to tweet against any perceived slight, the statement arrived noticeably late ― and only after he faced bipartisan criticism for vaguely condemning violence “on many sides.”

Given Trump’s relationship with the so-called alt-right ― a new word for white nationalism ― during the campaign, it’s not particularly surprising that Monday’s speech did not resonate with people actually accused of spreading hate. Last year, Trump initially failed to denounce former Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard David Duke, a Trump supporter, instead saying, “I know nothing about white supremacists. You wouldn’t want me to condemn a group that I know nothing about.”

Duke appeared to have a meltdown in response to Trump’s statement Monday. “President Trump, please, for God’s sake, don’t feel like you need to say these things,” Duke said in a video. “It’s not going to do you any good.”

But at the news conference, Spencer still referred to White House senior policy adviser Stephen Miller and chief strategist Steve Bannon as possible fellow travelers of the alt-right. He also pointed out that the rise of the movement’s public exposure coincided “almost exactly” with Trump’s announcement that he was running for president. Although he has some policy differences with the president, Spencer said, “we were connected with Donald Trump on this kind of psychic level.”
Spencer & Miller went to college together and Spencer tutored Miller in the alt-right beliefs that Miller feeds to Trump. I know a lot more about Trump and his background than you will ever know trolling your Trump core support blogs for your information. Apparently Spencer does as well. Trump is an out and out racist. He has demonstrated that many times in both actions and words. If you believe what you emboldened in your post, you clearly don't understand Trump, period. He says anything he needs to, extracting himself from personal peril, after all Trump takes no personal responsibility for anything or anybody but himself.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 21:59
  #15489 (permalink)  
 
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Now Trump is bleating out more praise for Manafort for not "breaking." Trump is so taken with this argot of the Mafia such and "breaking" and "ratting." A man who has stolen from the citizens of the U.S. by avoiding taxes is, per definition of the POTUS, a good man. Why does the base so like a thief that has stolen directly from them?

...and the more his base loves him.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 22:12
  #15490 (permalink)  
 
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Doo-doo diligence!

"Good luck, because - before I ask for a reference, you can bet that I've done my diligence and looked carefully."

That boast from EC went along with this: "But the press - as it is wont to do, likes to slander any one who is a frothing left wing progressive as a Nazi."

Interesting, that. Could you give us an example of the press doing that, EC? Or is it that you didn't do your diligence and look carefully? I can see you there, down in the basement, just rattling off the fiery prose in praise of Trump, words and spit hitting the screen as you give that keyboard a right seeing-to.

Just as a matter of style, EC - when you use a dash to set something off - shouldn't you close with another dash? You know, when you are looking carefully, as is your wont .... I see you starting with a dash but ending with a comma, twice, and that seems a bit, well, careless.

Let me check the Chicago Manual of Style on this and get back to you. It's around here somewhere. I guess I need to look carefully ....
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 22:15
  #15491 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
West Coast,

It was disheartening to read about Duncan Hunter, Republican Congressman from California's 50th District. Duncan had everything going for him, a respected community citizen and a wife and three young children. He completed 3 tours of duty as a US Marine officer, two in Iraq and one in Afghanistan before running for Congress. I don't know if he represents the district where you live but he was a strong conservative. Both he and his wife have been indicted for using more than $250,000 of campaign funds, charged on a campaign fund credit card for personal use and covering it up claiming in some instances it was used for charity donations, etc. It's very sad this happens to what appears to be solid honorable citizens, but it does and it transcends beyond politics. You just have to wonder at times why it winds up like this...
I'm all to aware as he represents my district. He enjoys the presumption of innocence so I'd hold off on the post mortem for now.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 22:42
  #15492 (permalink)  

Plastic PPRuNer
 
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"I'm curious to know why Mac comes here and rails against the US but won't address issues in SA when raised. "

There you go again WC. Why so curious? This is a thread about the USA and '45, not about South Africa AFAIK. We've had OUR Trump (Zuma)and a fine mess he made of things until even his own party got fed up and ditched him.

[I don't think that the something similar could happen in the US, because the real Republican party died years ago and the Democratic Party has terminal far-left disease]

But enough of Africa (yes I know all about the mooted land-grabs, thank you very much).

"Railing about the US" - I'm not railing about the US, I love the US, I adore the US, I think it is a marvelous country and when I was there I found Americans to be some of the most friendly and generous people that I had ever met. For many years America has been seen as the leader and defender of the free world, to various degrees. I'm an amateur historian (Congress of Vienna to somewhere in the 50's - Europe and the USA) and find American history a wonderful study. Much more interesting than African history which is scanty, mostly sanguinary and boring. America has a culture of thinkers, writers, painters, journalists, scientists and inventors that is almost unparalleled.

Why do you not want me to talk about America? Do you perhaps feel that 'furriners ain't got no business taking an interest in and opining on the current political situation? Or perhaps you believe that since I don't live there, that it is impossible for me to be correctly informed? Maybe I have no right to remark on what I perceive?

Via Twitter, I have a direct line to what DJT thinks, what sort of person he is and what his beliefs (not that he really seems to have any) are from his own mouth! No possibility of Fake News there, except that he constantly tells fibs about the silliest things that are verifiably untrue, that he seems to change his mind daily and generally sounds more like a spoiled child than a US President

I'm very well aware of the feelings of hurt, bewilderment, and discontent of those whom Hilary, to her eternal shame called "deplorables" and why Trump's "base" cling to him despite the fact that he has so far done very little for them and shows not much sign of intending to.

I write because what I see happening in America (and other evolved democracies) is worrying, for Trump's rage against the limitations imposed on him by the Constitution may change America and the World in unexpected and unwelcome ways.

Mac
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 22:51
  #15493 (permalink)  
 
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Concours77
Well done. Duke Cunningham also. Having some experience in politics, I can tell you it can be addictive, and generally does NOT bring out the best in people otherwise well adjusted. After my third election, I took a personal inventory, and realized politics had chipped away at my integrity. I quit. That was twenty years ago. Politics requires too much compromise, not enough principle, imo. At least for me.
Thanks for your kind words. The last year of my industry employment before retiring, I was asked to do initial investigations into potential ethics and integrity investigations reported anonymously. It was very surprising how, independent of job levels, people violated rules that were well published and involved personalized training. I can only imagine what the political scene is like. Thanks for your experience and feed back.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 23:05
  #15494 (permalink)  
 
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West Coast
I'm all to aware as he represents my district. He enjoys the presumption of innocence so I'd hold off on the post mortem for now.
In his position, the post mortem has already begun as opposed to your assertion. The Speaker of the House has removed him from a key committee position he held. Your position is why I would be careful to not accuse other posters for not responding to issues you raise, if you get my point.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 23:23
  #15495 (permalink)  
 
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Bad New Two Days For The Trump & His Faithful

There are good days and there are bad days. Watch Trump to start bailing to keep his boat from sinking:

Ben Sasse’s take:

“Paul Manafort is a founding member of the DC swamp and Michael Cohen is the Gotham version of the same,” emailed Sen. Ben Sasse (R-Neb.). “Neither one of these felons should have been anywhere near the presidency.”

Lindsey Graham’s take on the situation Trump faces:

“Anytime your lawyer is convicted of anything it’s probably not a good day,” said Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.).

I always thought Larry wasn’t one of the brighter bulbs on the strand of lights.

Larry Kudlow hosted Peter Brimelow, the publisher of a site that serves as a platform for white nationalism, at a birthday party at his home in Connecticut last weekend. The party came just one day after a White House speechwriter was ousted following revelations that he had spoken on a 2016 panel alongside Brimelow.

Duncan Hunter was a US Marine officer that served two tours of duty in Iraq and one tour in Afghanistan. He is a strong conservative representing the 50th Congressional District in the San Diego area.

Making a bad day worse for Republicans, a grand jury in San Diego agreed last night to indict Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.) and his wife, Margaret, for allegedly misusing more than a quarter of a million bucks in campaign funds for personal purposes. The 47-page indictment, which is worth reading in full, portrays the couple as living beyond their means on campaign-issued credit cards. His wife was paid a salary of $117,000 from the campaign account for “work” between 2010 and 2017. They will be arraigned on Thursday. What’s perhaps most galling in the indictment is how the Hunters are alleged to have covered up their purchase: often, by claiming it was for charity, like veteran’s organizations:

Margaret Hunter allegedly spent $200 on tennis shoes at Dick’s Sporting Goods, which she then claimed as for an annual dove hunting event for wounded warriors. When Hunter told his wife he needed to ‘buy my Hawaii shorts,’ but he was out of money, she allegedly told him to buy them from a golf pro shop so he could claim they were actually golf balls for wounded warriors. … Margaret Hunter allegedly spent $152 on makeup at Nordstrom and told the campaign it was ‘gift basket items for the Boys and Girls Clubs of San Diego.’ … They allegedly described the payment of their family dental bills as a charitable contribution to ‘Smiles For Life.’ … In an attempt to justify spending campaign funds on a family trip to Italy, Hunter asked the Naval base for a tour. When they said they couldn’t do it then, Hunter said ‘tell the Navy to go f*** themselves.

Hunter was the second member of Congress to endorse Trump. He followed Rep. Chris Collins (R-N.Y.) by just a few hours in February 2016. Collins was indicted two weeks ago on insider trading charges. He ended his reelection bid under pressure from Trump allies and GOP leaders who feared a messy distraction, even as he continues to proclaim his innocence.

A judge ruled that Trump must face a lawsuit filed against him and his security team, who allegedly attacked a group of peaceful protesters in 2015. Bronx Supreme Court Judge Fernando Tapia denied Trump’s motion to dismiss allegations of assault and battery and destruction of property, saying that a jury could find that Trump ‘authorized and condoned’ the guards’ conduct.

This is the lawsuit the Russian bank and Trump have fought in favor for so as not to tie either parties to the Trump Election Campaign.
A judge dismissed a defamation lawsuit filed against dossier author Christopher Steele by the co-founders of a major Russian bank. “In his decision to toss the case ‘with prejudice’ — that is, permanently — Judge Anthony C. Epstein of the Washington, D.C., Superior Court concluded that [Steele] acted ‘in furtherance of the right of advocacy on issues of public interest’ when he decided to brief reporters on the dossier’s findings in the summer of 2016. Steele’s conduct is therefore protected by ‘anti-SLAPP’ statutes, according to the judge, which aim to halt lawsuits brought to chill the exercise of constitutionally protected free speech.”
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 00:04
  #15496 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
ethical,

Have you really?
I will take all that blather as you have NO PROOF of your claim that Trump praised any Nazis or neo-Nazi, or any white supremacists as you stated as 'good people'.

But - we do have actual clear words of condemnation of such directly from his speech. And from that - you are off to the races with all this other third party BS about who supports Trump - as if again, painting with the Nazi brush anyone who voted for Trump must be a Nazi. Which says so much about the alt-left, progressive movement.

I am done responding to the spew from the left on here. I will go back to making my point, and not responding to all the BS that comes from the media which has been shown to be lies, and obfuscations. There is the actual words that Trump spoke. He condemned the Nazi, he said and I agree that there were "very fine people" on both sides. I know, because rather than painting all progs with the same brush, I operate from the quoted material, and not the third party reactions.

So, go on with your lies. It feels good for us to know that Trump and the US success is making everyone on the left outraged, and furious.

buh-bye
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 00:13
  #15497 (permalink)  
 
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I am done responding to the spew from the left on here.
I've got news for you. It's not coming from the left.
However, I concur that it depends on your point of view.
If you stand on the far right then, yes, everything else is from the left.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 00:23
  #15498 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
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Confusion? Here’s this...

Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
I've got news for you. It's not coming from the left.
However, I concur that it depends on your point of view.
If you stand on the far right then, yes, everything else is from the left.
The spew is not generated in the same way.

When I was young, I asked my Dad about something I read in the paper (San Francisco Chronicle, sometimes the Oakland Tribune.) The topic escapes me, but essentially there was discussion re some legislation, and two Senators were quoted.

Ted Kennedy, and Strom Thurmond. “Senator Kennedy has said.....” “Arch Conservative Strom Thurmond responded...”

So the Press identifies Kennedy as “Senator” and Thurmond as “Arch Conservative....”

It’s like this: When a Democrat is challenged by an opponent, the opponent points out where he is wrong. When A Republican is challenged, he is not only wrong, he is a bad person. “Racist, homophobe, bigot, knuckle dragger, etc.”

Take some time, watch how they do it....


seriously

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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 00:35
  #15499 (permalink)  
 
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I've spent enough time in the USA (during the Primaries) to know how it goes and was astonished at the level of mendacity from all sides and media. What would be considered slander, or even purjury in many countries is just 'free speech' over there.
Bonkers.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 01:06
  #15500 (permalink)  
 
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ethical,
So, go on with your lies. It feels good for us to know that Trump and the US success is making everyone on the left outraged, and furious.

buh-bye
I think I will go out and talk to the telephone pole in the corner of our front yard. It is more responsive than communicating with a mindless hardcore Trumpet supporter. There is no point of asking about US success that Trump has brought about, there really isn't any to speak of except chaos, division of our country, and making international friends enemies.
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