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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 22nd Aug 2018, 01:22
  #15461 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
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Well, Turbs and Freddy, cant you at least allow your Trump Derangement to settle long enough to suggest who you would like to see move in in January 2021?

Or do you just prefer to bitch and moan?
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 01:33
  #15462 (permalink)  
 
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Mr. Trump lands in West Virginia for a praise an adulation rally and tells the reporters that Mr. Manafort is a good man.
Down from "He's a great guy".
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 04:19
  #15463 (permalink)  
 
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@OB

I don't think my comments have a plaintive tinge to them at all. Not that I would expect anyone to avidly follow my posts, but over the last eighteen months I have been quite consistent in saying that I look to the U.S. president for leadership of the Western Alliance and a champion, if not protector, of Western ideals, mores, and norms. Big shoes to fill indeed but this is important stuff.

You as a physician have the requisite rigour of thought and intellectual discipline to make determinations as to when a person is stable and fit for purpose. It is up to you, and not me, to determine who holds your representative offices. But your choices at the national level, for better or worse, affect us all even if just indirectly. I am beholden to no man or woman as a leader, but in the modern world they bloody well be someone who is not a peevish and petulant thin-skinned egoist.

I have always agreed that the guy is simply a gent who was sluicing Russian money through his commercial real estate businesses. Before that he was most likely, as Turbine D alludes to, over-familar with organized crime figures to get his buildings built--probably not a rarity in NYC. He was an acolyte of Roy Cohn after all so this is not exactly revelatory.

Frankly I don't care what party is in office as long as the person is competent. One might not wish to accept the mantel of guarantor of Western ideals but it goes with the job so man up and do it properly instead of running the WH like it is the Gambino crime family.

Btw, these displays of gross dishonesty (and in this case even criminal act) only seem to strengthen Trump's hold over 40% of the electorate so I don't think anything at all will happen. Just another day.

In fact, I expect the Democrats to end up losing in November as there is simply nothing that Trump can do to change anyone's mind. If his love for Putin cannot do it then nothing will. He is the party and the party is him and that is the way millions of Americans want it to be.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 04:31
  #15464 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
suggest who you would like to see move in in January 2021
Out of center field - John Hickenlooper. Geologist, businessman who didn't go backrupt, urban mayor, Gov. of a Western State (and a booming, purple one at that - energy, agriculture, tech), who just happens to be free to look around after January 2019 (term-limited). Already has a name so funny even Trump won't be able to nick-name him effectively. "Loopy Hick" just makes him a Trump voter.

U.S. politics trivia - anyone here ever notice that while we have one State named for a President, we also have one that looks like a President?

Richard M.(ontana) Nixon. https://goo.gl/images/ZVoyZD
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 04:43
  #15465 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
West Coast:

How many people do you think that post on this thread know who the leader of South Africa is?

.
I honestly dont care nor is it relevant to the conversation. Im curious to know why Mac comes here and rails against the US but wont address issues in SA when raised. I know its preferable to be on offense than defense but its reasonable to expect a response to a question.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 04:46
  #15466 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
Out of center field - John Hickenlooper. Geologist, businessman who didn't go backrupt, urban mayor, Gov. of a Western State (and a booming, purple one at that - energy, agriculture, tech), who just happens to be free to look around after January 2019 (term-limited). Already has a name so funny even Trump won't be able to nick-name him effectively. "Loopy Hick" just makes him a Trump voter.

U.S. politics trivia - anyone here ever notice that while we have one State named for a President, we also have one that looks like a President?

Richard M.(ontana) Nixon. https://goo.gl/images/ZVoyZD

Jimmy who worked once, your governor will need to raise his profile significantly if he is to go anywhere.

Has he even made noise about running?
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 04:57
  #15467 (permalink)  
 
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Al Capone ordered his men to maim and murder people, bootlegged and committed most of the rest of the crimes in the book.
He danced for quite awhile, almost untouchable, although every single person in Chicago and beyond knew.
They did finally get him on tax evasion charges after that brilliant jury switch and he died in prison, only slightly middle-aged,
of a not nice disease.
Just sayin'
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 06:36
  #15468 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Like waiting for a bus ....

When two come along at once.

We've been forced to have pro-Trump people tell us that Mueller's investigation is a "nothing-burger," that there's been nothing of substance found after 15 months of looking. (Actually there has been one conviction, numerous plea bargains, and a slew of indictments, but all that is just boring fact, nothing a Trump partisan wants to pay attention to.) Now we just had two major events at once: the conviction of Trump's campaign manager for federal crimes; and the guilty plea of Trump's long-term personal lawyer for campaign finance violations done at the direction of Trump himself.

As a Trump partisan who manages to combine wilful ignorance with fanatical support for the Cheeto, EC has helpfully pointed out that Trump's campaign manager was quite crooked but not found to have been involved in collusion with the Russians. Not that Manafort probably was not involved, just that he has not been tried for that, so that EC only reacts to Manafort's conviction with a "pfft." It really was okay for Trump to have used a crook, one with deep connections to Russian crooks, to run his campaign? Okay with EC, I suppose, but okay in fact? I don't think so, hence Trump's lies about how Manafort only worked for him for a little while. If he could, Trump would try to tell us that Manafort was just another one who only served coffee, nothing more.

By the way, EC, you need to look up Trump telling us "You also had some very fine people on both sides," at Charlottesville, when one of those sides included neo-Nazis marching under Nazi flags, by torchlight, chanting anti-Semitic slogans. That would answer this from you: "If you don't mind finding a reference where Trump praised "home grown Nazi protesters" as 'good people'." (True, he did not literally say "good" but "very fine" instead, while they were not "Nazi" but neo-Nazi protesters, but I think even you will have to agree that Trump was dishing out praise for neo-Nazis then.)

To be precise, there still are a few Nazis around, people who were members of the original German NSDAP (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei). (Such a person is called an "alt-Nazi" in Germany.) The Party itself was dissolved and outlawed in 1945, however, so that what we have now is younger people who are neo-Nazis; they are not Nazis as such since there now is no actual Nazi Party for them to join. It was dissolved before they were even born. This is one of those distinctions without a difference, really, but it does exist, and it is sometimes used by neo-Nazis themselves, along with, of course, our 45th President. In other words, you can march behind a Nazi flag, by torchlight, chanting anti-Semitic slogans, but then you will not be a Nazi but a very fine person, in the view of Donald Trump. Any reasonable person (not looking at you, EC, here) would look at someone carrying on in this manner, shrug, and think, "Well there goes a real jerk, some kind of Nazi," when he would not be very far wrong to think that.

Cohen is the man who can reveal the internal workings of Trump's rotten empire. His agreeing to help the Mueller inquiry will bring extreme trouble for Trump, as if implicating Trump in the violation of campaign law were not bad enough, Trump causing more than a quarter-million dollars in illegal contributions to have been made to his own campaign, and made in order to cover up tawdry sex encounters with random women not even one of his numerous wives.

When we were watching Avenatti making those repeated claims about what was going to happen next with Michael Cohen ... who thought it could happen this quickly? Now we need to see how Trump is going to spin these hard facts about his long-term personal lawyer, the guy who once said he was ready to take a bullet for Trump. Just as Avenatti claimed, Cohen meekly folded when he was faced with the prospect of being locked up for a long, long time.

In one way this is Watergate redux: Trump's in trouble in part because of the cover-up, those illegal contributions meant to buy the silence of just two of the many women he's had his way with over the years. This guy's pecker might be small, but is it ever troublesome!
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 07:05
  #15469 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ethicalconundrum View Post
Court ordered the last living Nazi in the US back in 2004. INS/ICE spent 2 years waffling, and finally Germany admitted he was a citizen of that country.
Where did you get that funny idea from?

Pretty much any news outlet that employs actual journalists - instead of propagandists who cannot be bothered with facts - reports that he was and is not a German citizen. Which is why he could not be extradited as he was, after being stripped of his US citizenship in 2003, a stateless person. And as you quite corretly pointed out, the court order was in place since 2004 which, if my recollection does not fail me, gave the Bush adminstration almost five years to deal with it before BO set his foot in the White House. And, by the way, the whole problem only arose because the US legal system sees unfit to prosecute Nazi crimes in the US.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 07:58
  #15470 (permalink)  
 
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It's an historial failure.

Germany and the USA have both been "blind in the right eye," willing to overlook a lot of Nazi crimes, including mass murder, what came to be called "genocide."

Just look at the main man in the US space program, Doctor Wernher von Braun. He was a signed-up Nazi, a real one, not merely one of these modern fake ones such as the marchers at Charlottesville. When we were using his vast and unparalleled knowledge of rocket technology we were happy to overlook obvious facts about his links to Nazism, just as we were happy to use other Nazis in our Cold War with the USSR. (Of course the USSR had their own pet Nazis.)

In Germany there was a celebrated incident when Kurt Georg Kiesinger was given a hefty slap by Beate Klarsfeld for having been a member of the Nazi Party; the slap was given when he was a high-ranking member of the German government of the day. There again a former Nazi was found to be quite useful, so that his past conveniently was overlooked.

In the case of Trump I suppose he could be excused on account of his gross ignorance if you want to do that.

That would be just like claiming, as his personal lawyer repeatedly has done, that it's completely unfair to expect Trump to give testimony to Mueller because he's simply unable to tell the truth. Trump probably has no real idea what is true and what is not, living as he does in some sort of fantasy world where he's a stable genius and a master deal-maker ... just one who's so stupid that he's unable to write and speak simple, clear English, and someone who has gone repeatedly bankrupt in various failed deals. Who ever heard of someone unable to make money running a casino? This is like George W. Bush having been the only man unable to find oil in West Texas.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 08:54
  #15471 (permalink)  
 
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Hi guys, while you're there I have a question.

Is a witch hunt a bad thing if there are real bad witches?
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 08:59
  #15472 (permalink)  
 
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It is if you are a witch! Or a wizard, or even if you are merely some sort of son-of-a-[rhymes with witch].

Life is just so very, very unfair to poor old Donald Trump. He got away with so much for so long up there in New York City, misbehavior he learned from his father and from Roy Cohn, so that he finally decided to take his act on the road, ending up in Washington, D.C. Now look at what is happening to him!
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 13:41
  #15473 (permalink)  
 
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ethical,
If you don't mind finding a reference where Trump praised "home grown Nazi protesters" as 'good people'. Which is what you are referring to in your post.
It seems to me where you live in the Republic of Texas, only the good news about Trump is received, the bad news is censored. To bring to you a reference, dated as it is, take a good look at this FOX video, turn your volume up, watch and listened... Next time, try an internet search site on your own, unless those are censored as well...

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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 14:11
  #15474 (permalink)  
 
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Original Post by obgraham
Well, Turbs and Freddy, cant you at least allow your Trump Derangement to settle long enough to suggest who you would like to see move in in January 2021?

Or do you just prefer to bitch and moan?
Good question! I will give it some thought. Meanwhile, Anybody but Trump, details to follow...
BTW, I always thought bitching & moaning is your forte, no?
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 15:58
  #15475 (permalink)  
 
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WC - Hick has mostly said "not while I'm still Gov." but did kick around the idea of joining forces with Kasich in a "Unity ticket" a year ago. A little google work will produce more precise detail, if you want it.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 16:27
  #15476 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
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West Coast,

It was disheartening to read about Duncan Hunter, Republican Congressman from California's 50th District. Duncan had everything going for him, a respected community citizen and a wife and three young children. He completed 3 tours of duty as a US Marine officer, two in Iraq and one in Afghanistan before running for Congress. I don't know if he represents the district where you live but he was a strong conservative. Both he and his wife have been indicted for using more than $250,000 of campaign funds, charged on a campaign fund credit card for personal use and covering it up claiming in some instances it was used for charity donations, etc. It's very sad this happens to what appears to be solid honorable citizens, but it does and it transcends beyond politics. You just have to wonder at times why it winds up like this...
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 16:34
  #15477 (permalink)  
 
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TurbineD

Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
West Coast,

It was disheartening to read about Duncan Hunter, Republican Congressman from California's 50th District. Duncan had everything going for him, a respected community citizen and a wife and three young children. He completed 3 tours of duty as a US Marine officer, two in Iraq and one in Afghanistan before running for Congress. I don't know if he represents the district where you live but he was a strong conservative. Both he and his wife have been indicted for using more than $250,000 of campaign funds, charged on a campaign fund credit card for personal use and covering it up claiming in some instances it was used for charity donations, etc. It's very sad this happens to what appears to be solid honorable citizens, but it does and it transcends beyond politics. You just have to wonder at times why it winds up like this...
Well done. Duke Cunningham also. Having some experience in politics, I can tell you it can be addictive, and generally does NOT bring out the best in people otherwise well adjusted. After my third election, I took a personal inventory, and realized politics had chipped away at my integrity. I quit. That was twenty years ago. Politics requires too much compromise, not enough principle, imo. At least for me.

thanks
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 16:44
  #15478 (permalink)  
 
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Well Turbine, look up Wild Bill Hawrelak as an example.
After an excellent landing etc.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 17:21
  #15479 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
ethical,

It seems to me where you live in the Republic of Texas, only the good news about Trump is received, the bad news is censored. To bring to you a reference, dated as it is, take a good look at this FOX video, turn your volume up, watch and listened... Next time, try an internet search site on your own, unless those are censored as well...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqc9TeemrKo
It's interesting. You put up a sound bite, from a news organization that has no Trump content at all. Two loudmouths jerking themselves off about what Trump didn't say. So, I asked for a reference - specifically about Trump calling "home grown Nazis" as 'good people'. I ask, because yes - I've tried to find it, and I can't. You see - I find a lot of media types saying that it happened, and that Trump specifically said it, but when I go through the archives of his commentary I can't find it anywhere.

Sure, I can find lots of commentary about what others think they heard, or what they mistakenly reported, or what they conjecture he meant, but there is no actual text, recording, or video that I can find to support this alleged 'good people' statement regarding "home grown Nazis". Sadly, it's very hard to find the statement, and impossible to find the video of Trump's remarks on the internet. Why do you think that is? As best I can find, here is the closest thing I have to his remarks on Aug 12 2017, note the literal quotes, which in my grammar class meant these are actual statements, and not an inference, or otherwise modified:
Trump - in response to a shouted question from media pool: What about the alt-left that came charging at, as you say, at the alt-right? Do they have any semblance of guilt?Ive condemned neo-Nazis. Ive condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me, he said.You had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, Trump said. The press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

You also had some very fine people on both sides, he said.
I've bolded the parts I consider to be important. First - Trump condemns the neo-Nazis as he as done on many occasions in the past - but it's not reported by the press. I could go hunt it down, in obscure places, or maybe even the WH journal, but it's not reported. Why is that? Do you suppose Trump condemning neo-Nazis is not what the press wants to hear? Second - He expressed that there was very fine people on both sides. Any interpretation now that everyone protesting in Charlottesville that day was a neo-Nazi is completely off the rails. There were southern baptists in the protest, there were alt-right demonstrators, there were alt-left demonstrators, there were communists, there were socialist, there were all kinds of politically active people some of which WERE neo-Nazis. But the press - as it is wont to do, likes to slander any one who is a frothing left wing progressive as a Nazi. Here a Nazi, there a Nazi, if you don't wear a scarf around your face, and swing a Che Guevara banner, that automatically makes one a Nazi. It's painting everyone to the right of Bernie Sanders as a Nazi, and we aren't going to have it.

So - you fail. You always fail. You promise, but you fail. And in failing, you show up with the actual 'fake news' that Trump tells us about. Please, stop failing. I know it's hard, but try to find actual quotes, from actual people, in actual context. As for the remarks after this statement, which the press took out of context, and also got wrong, and also opinioned on the erroneous reporting, go find some place where Trump has ever praised any Nazi, neo-Nazi. Good luck, because - before I ask for a reference, you can bet that I've done my diligence and looked carefully.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 19:08
  #15480 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Here you go.

Pay attention at 1:08, when you can hear Trump braying that there were fine people on both sides at Charlottesville.

What some people overlook is that neo-Nazi scum also do vote, and that they mostly vote for Donald Trump, I think. Trump is aiming this pitch at neo-Nazi scum, most probably for that very reason.

It took me about two minutes to find this clip, link it, and write this post too. What is your problem, EC, that you can not even find the clip? Are you just another stable genius, like Trump?
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