Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 8th Aug 2018, 00:08
  #15321 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,011
Lonewolf_50 - Please review the first 5 words of the First Amendment. "CONGRESS shall make no law....abridging the freedom of speech, etc."

No mention there of corporations, employers, media sites or anyone else, who are free to set their own standards and restrictions and censorship. The difference being that one cannot escape government (except by leaving the US and living somewhere else), but is completely free to avoid using Yahoo! or FB, or refuse a job that requires submitting to corporate restrictions on speech, or refuse to sign a non-disclosure agreement, or choose not to watch Faux News or MSNBC, and so on.

The Constitution and the Bill of Rights restrict what government may do, not what private entities may do. Of course, private entities can be influenced to follow the same restrictions, through societal pressure (bad PR, lost revenues). And laws that enforce or protect such activity by private parties (e.g. Jim Crow laws) can be ruled unconstitutional, leaving the private entities to fend for themselves in the marketplace.

Once upon a time, there was the FCC "Fairness Doctrine" - government interference in mass communications which used "public resources" (the airwaves) for disseminating information, and requiring balanced, non-biased content. Ruled Constitutional, but ceased to be enforced anyway in 1987. It could be restored if desired, and presumably cover the Internet, since that is based on government (Defense, originally) resources (Al Gore notwithstanding). That would force FB etc to allow equal access to all points of view, but would likely also wreck Faux News' (and MSNBC and maybe CNN's) business models.
pattern_is_full is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2018, 00:34
  #15322 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: London/Fort Worth
Posts: 0
Looks like its not going well for the prosecution in the Manafort trial - seems that Muellers star witness is making a pigs ear of it..
BAengineer is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2018, 01:56
  #15323 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 60
Posts: 5,470
Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
Lonewolf_50 - Please review .
(edited)8 do not presume to tell your grandma how to suck eggs.
There has been a necking down of media / fourth estate sources over the past 30-40 years as optimization has driven off and killed print and radio media. The freedom of the press is sacrosanct, but to call Twitter, Facebook, or Googgle "the press" is to offer them a status they do not rate, nor deserve.

I strongly suggest that you wake up. "The Press" as it was, as it stood in our primal stage, and as it was for over a century and a half was a vibrant and chaotic mix of voices. That was healthy. You could always find a second opinion.
One by one, the competition and variety of editorial slants has shrunk. It's as bad in radio as it is in the printed press.
That isn't healthy, and all of those useless cnuts hide behind the 1st amendment like they deserve endangered species protection, as does any other dishonest arsehole hiding in a loophole.
Do not presume to tell me about the First Amendment (edited).
The Fourth Estate has gone AWOL. What we have in its place is ... well, I'll need to create a neologism since there isn't a word for it yet.

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 8th Aug 2018 at 11:49.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2018, 04:12
  #15324 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,011
I totally agree with most of that last post. Except that I doubt you are my grandma (you're too young (mathematical impossibility), and probably a much better flyer).

H*ll, Denver is on the verge of becoming a "newspaperless" metro area of 2.8 million, since the Rocky closed 9 years ago and the Post is tottering. I'm wide awake - I've been watching papers disappear for 40 years. So you needn't worry about my experience sucking eggs.

I was just making the point that "political speech" is Constitutionally protected from government/legislative interference, but not from private/corporate interference, in most cases. FaceBook ain't Congress - nor did I anywhere say FB was "the press."

That is how the law stands today. That doesn't mean I approve of the law as it stands today. Or that you should. If we don't like the laws as written, we have the option to elect people to change them.
pattern_is_full is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2018, 11:51
  #15325 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 60
Posts: 5,470
Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
Except that I doubt you are my grandma
Yeah, the numbers don't work out.
Sometimes, we need to remember not to PWP. Sorry about the tone there, I should not have been logged in with the cocktails in the bloodstream.

There have been two SCOTUS decisions in the last decade or so that have really bothered me in terms of screwing the public. The first was Kelo vs New London up in CT, the other was Citizen's United. They were both 5-4 decisions, and in both cases the dissenting opinion was (from my view) more valid in argument than the majority opinion. In both cases, the behemoth was favored (be it government or the non person corporation) over the citizen. That rend is at odds with the founding principles of the empowerment of the sovereign citizen. I see this crap with media corporations, be the "news" or "infotainment" or "social media" as more of the same. It interferes with the normal designed electoral process. When I arrive at the neologism I am looking for I'll run it past you to see if you like it.

The gilded age led to muck raking against industrialists and people like Rockefeller. The information age, with its various titans, needs more muckracking.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2018, 13:58
  #15326 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by BAengineer View Post
Looks like its not going well for the prosecution in the Manafort trial - seems that Muellers star witness is making a pigs ear of it..
I commend you for paying attention to the trial, and how it's going but - he's gonna be convicted. He's a rich republican being tried in a liberal county in VA, next to the US capitol. Also, the people who get stuck on jury duty are not inclined to be working Republicans.
ethicalconundrum is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2018, 17:21
  #15327 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 451
Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
I was just making the point that "political speech" is Constitutionally protected from government/legislative interference, but not from private/corporate interference, in most cases. FaceBook ain't Congress - nor did I anywhere say FB was "the press."
Refusing to run a political candidate's ads sounds a lot like interfering with an election, to me. At the least, I'd say it's clear non-financial support for the Democrats.

My guess is we're going to see the 'social media' companies doing a lot of talking with Congress in the not-too-distant future.
MG23 is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2018, 20:13
  #15328 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,011
Originally Posted by ethicalconundrum View Post
...the people who get stuck on jury duty are not inclined to be working Republicans.
About the level of ignorance we can expect from EC.

From the actual Juror questionnaire for the Manafort Trial: "Concerns about missing work or social obligations are not justifications for being excused for jury service." Political party affiliation is not, of course, part of the questionnaire.

As to the jury makeup otherwise, in a non-capital Federal felony case the defense gets 10 peremptory challenges to jurors. Manafort's lawyers get to pick and choose. So does the prosecution, but only 6. Advantage: defense.

The location of the trial is Alexandria, VA, an independent city not in any county (as are 37 other Virginia cities). Ooops! The federal court (Eastern Dist. of VA, Alexandria Division) draws jurors from multiple counties, including Stafford (heavily Republican, 6 of 7 County Supervisors are GOP, congressman is GOP) and Fauquier (Trump vote 59%). Unemployment in the District is 3%, so it is likely that all the jurors, D or R, are working.

So sad when nasty ugly little facts get in the way of a beautiful conspiracy fantasy.

However, Manafort will be convicted. His fingerprints are all over incriminating emails, tax filings, unreported money transfers, etc. Typical "Slime from the Black Lagoon" - which Mueller (not Trump) is draining.
pattern_is_full is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2018, 21:58
  #15329 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle America
Age: 80
Posts: 1,153
Original Post by Lonewolf_50
There have been two SCOTUS decisions in the last decade or so that have really bothered me in terms of screwing the public. The first was Kelo vs New London up in CT, the other was Citizen's United. They were both 5-4 decisions, and in both cases the dissenting opinion was (from my view) more valid in argument than the majority opinion.
I agree with you 100%. Both decisions were ill conceived and penalized individual citizens and rewarded entities, corporate or government oriented.
Turbine D is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2018, 22:44
  #15330 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
About the level of ignorance we can expect from EC.
Alexandria VA:Government

TypeCouncil-manager
• MayorAllison Silberberg (D)
Virginia Senate
Adam Ebbin (D)
Richard L. Saslaw (D)
George Barker (D)Delegate
Mark Levine (D)
Charniele Herring (D)U.S. House
Don Beyer (D)U.S. Senate
Mark Warner (D)
Tim Kaine (D)

County Board of Supervisors
ChairmanSharon Bulova
Democratic2009At-largeSupervisorJohn Cook
Republican2009BraddockSupervisorJohn Foust
Democratic2007DranesvilleSupervisorCathy Hudgins
Democratic1999Hunter MillSupervisorJeff McKay
Democratic2007LeeSupervisorPenelope Gross
Democratic1995MasonSupervisorDaniel "Dan" StorckDemocratic2015Mount VernonSupervisorLinda Smyth
Democratic2003ProvidenceSupervisorPatrick "Pat" HerrityRepublican2007SpringfieldSupervisorKathy SmithDemocratic2015Sully

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Presidential Elections Results[22] Year Republican Democratic Third Parties
2016 ............................................. 28.6% 157,710 64.4% 355,133 7.0% 38,340
2012 ............................................. 39.1% 206,773 59.6% 315,273 1.4% 7,241
2008 ............................................. 38.9% 200,994 60.1% 310,359 1.0% 4,90

With all due respect to your well, uh - fake numbers. But, ya got one R snuck in there somehow.
BTW, while it might call itself 'independent' the city caucases with Fairfax county. So - for everything except local police and firefighting, it is an exurb of Fairfax county.

Have a nice day
ethicalconundrum is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2018, 19:53
  #15331 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vendee
Posts: 138
Turning the screws on Turkey

I know I know. We are supposed to be dispassionate in our analysis of the situation and always consider second and third order effects...but my o me if I am not enjoying watching Mr. Trump lower the boom on the thug Erdogan.

Yes I know there is a list of possible repercussions that might arise, but watching this dictator get a seeing to is worth the price of admission.

...and yes, I know this pustulace has been festering for some time and that it is merely falling to Trump to lance the boil, but he does indeed have an inimitable way of doing so. In this case good on him!

Btw, no I do not want to see Turkey driven into the open and waiting arms of Russia--a real danger. But with freinds like Erdogan who needs enemies?

Last edited by Uncle Fred; 10th Aug 2018 at 20:07.
Uncle Fred is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2018, 21:17
  #15332 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 72
Posts: 783
4th August 2016: Trump says "We have to end chain migration".
8th December 2016: Trump says "We have to end chain migration"
9th August 2018: Melania Trump's parents become US citizens. Via chain migration.
How about that!
KelvinD is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2018, 21:54
  #15333 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
4th August 2016: Trump says "We have to end chain migration".
8th December 2016: Trump says "We have to end chain migration"
9th August 2018: Melania Trump's parents become US citizens. Via chain migration.
How about that!
So while it still is legal you have an issue with it, why? Iím pretty sure all the other folks relatives that have obtained citizenship while it is legal you have no problem with, or do you?
fltlt is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2018, 01:27
  #15334 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,515
Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
4th August 2016: Trump says "We have to end chain migration".
8th December 2016: Trump says "We have to end chain migration"
9th August 2018: Melania Trump's parents become US citizens. Via chain migration.
How about that!

Did you get your paperwork in yet for it?
West Coast is online now  
Old 11th Aug 2018, 02:05
  #15335 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hillsgrove
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by fltlt View Post


So while it still is legal you have an issue with it, why? Iím pretty sure all the other folks relatives that have obtained citizenship while it is legal you have no problem with, or do you?
Personally, I have no problem with legal immigrants, nor with anyone who calls outs flaming hypocrites!
CaptOveur is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2018, 04:09
  #15336 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by CaptOveur View Post
Personally, I have no problem with legal immigrants, nor with anyone who calls outs flaming hypocrites!
Who is the hypocrite in your opinion?
fltlt is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2018, 05:16
  #15337 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,011
Originally Posted by fltlt View Post
Who is the hypocrite in your opinion?

A President who has no problem with his wife's family using something - but wants to cut it off for others.

If chain migration is so evil that the law should be changed to prevent it - then it is evil even if the law currently allows it. And using it for one's relatives rather destroys the argument that it is evil.

Another form of hypocrisy, which occasionally appears here, is: "Trump's my guy, so I won't complain too loudly if he does something that I would raise Holy Hell about if a Democrat did it." Such as, oh, adding 1.5 trillion to the deficit, or starting a trade war, or possibly conspiring with a foreign dictatorship to steal an opposing Party's emails to influence an election.

A person of principle applies their principles to everyone equally, without favor. A hypocrite has "flexible principles" depending on what's in it for him and his.

Last edited by pattern_is_full; 11th Aug 2018 at 05:32.
pattern_is_full is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2018, 05:32
  #15338 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 72
Posts: 783
pattern is full: Thanks for that. This was exactly my point, the hypocrisy.
I don't care what forms of immigration the US has in place but the manner in which Trump attacked those who do take advantage of the process during his presidential campaign was, to say the least, rather strident.
KelvinD is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2018, 05:43
  #15339 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 3,094
A person of principle
Where do you find those? You tell the guy buying your used vehicle what problems it has, or do you gloss over those mundane issues to maximise the selling price? They're rather thin on the ground I've found.
megan is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2018, 05:50
  #15340 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,011
I don't sell my used vehicles - I drive 'em into the ground, or until something/someone totals them anyway.

However, if you are conceding that Trump and his supporters are unprincipled - welcome to the club!
pattern_is_full is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.