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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 18th Jul 2018, 00:02
  #15021 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry View Post
If I was head of state the LAST people I'd diss would be my secret service. Some of these people might be asked to take a bullet for me... and sure as hell I don't want to risk them all being away on training course when ISIS come to call......
The U.S. Secret Service is not quite the same as 007's. It is not formally a part of the "Intelligence community" (FBI, CIA, NSA, NRO, military intel agencies), although as a law-enforcement unit, it obviously does do investigative work related to its role, and is occasionally "seconded" to help, for example: in the FBI investigation of the Boston Marathon bombing; tracing some financial aspects of terrorism; or, because they had an office in World Trade Center 6, the rescue and investigation of the 9/11 attacks (one agent died in those rescue activities).

It originated as the Treasury's law enforcement service, chasing counterfeiters and other financial criminals. It was tasked with the Executive Protection job after the assassination of Pres. McKinley in 1901. Since 2003 it has been a part of Homeland Security, along with the Coast Guard, Immigration, Firearms, etc.

Last edited by pattern_is_full; 18th Jul 2018 at 01:45.
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 00:07
  #15022 (permalink)  
 
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What surprised me was he announced he intended to stand again......... And here was me thinking you only had Turkey at thanksgiving.
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 00:19
  #15023 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
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We all laughed when Don the Con said “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters”.

Sadly time and time again, this is appearing scarily prophetic. This thread is case in point.
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 00:20
  #15024 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ethicalconundrum View Post
We've never been a democracy, never had mob rule, never been anything except a Republic.
**sigh** A phony distinction.

No, we are not a pure democracy - in which every decision is made by vote of the entire populace, a la "Brexit." However, we are a Constitutional Representative Democratic Republic - in which the ultimate authority is supposed to lie in the hands of the people, by way of their ability to grant or withhold votes from their representatives, and is moderated by the Constitution, which sets some limits on what that authority (whether the people, or their representatives) is permitted.

Who else in the US - except the demos (the people) - chooses who governs?
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 00:33
  #15025 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Republic of Texas
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We all have hopes.

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Old 18th Jul 2018, 00:37
  #15026 (permalink)  
 
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Old political Joke. It was fist stated seriously by WW Wilson after WW I
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 00:38
  #15027 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post

Who else in the US - except the demos (the people) - chooses who governs?
They are called 'electors'. As I recall, it's in Article II somewhere. Based on representation from the various STATES. (hence the name of the nation)

Maybe, you should go to school with the other guy?
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 01:25
  #15028 (permalink)  
 
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Get real. The Electors don't do anything not authorized by the popular vote of their state (although it may be "winner take all," but than, so are Governorships and Senate seats).

Are electors a factor in the choosing of the other 535 people's representatives? No.

I'm surprised a Conservative would go all soft and gooey about being a "Republic," considering the company: "Democratic People's Republic of North Korea," "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics," Republic of Cuba, Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela, "People's Republic of China". Or as we say here in Colorado, "The People's Republic of Boulder."

Or was offended by direct democracy - it was, after all, a "Citizen's Initiative" - popular vote; mob rule, OB's "common people," more or less - that put teeth into the 1978 California taxpayers' revolt. Thereby bypassing the small-R "republican" legislature. A key moment in modern American Conservatism.

I'll let you and OB debate whether giving the "common people" a strong, even overriding, vote is a good thing.
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 02:17
  #15029 (permalink)  
 
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No, Pattern:
I'll let you and OB debate whether giving the "common people" a strong, even overriding, vote is a good thing.
Actually some of us think EVERY ELIGIBLE ONE should get a vote. And that they should not be subject to the Democratic Party then deciding which of those votes to actually count.
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 02:36
  #15030 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
Get real. The Electors don't do anything not authorized by the popular vote of their state (although it may be "winner take all," but than, so are Governorships and Senate seats).
”Anything”? Sure about that? You place great emphasis and confidence by underlining, sorry that draws out the pedant in me.

All the times in U.S. history that members of the electoral college voted their own way
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 04:10
  #15031 (permalink)  
 
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Would this be a new lie or wouldn't it.
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 05:25
  #15032 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jack11111 View Post
Would this be a new lie or wouldn't it.
Yoda impression?
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 06:10
  #15033 (permalink)  
 
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WC - I understand the word "pedant." Do you understand the word "trivial?"

Put those numbers on a percentage basis, and you get 16 faithless electors in the past 29 Presidential elections (to 1900). Being very conservative, let's call that 450 electors per election (actually 538 today, but we've added a few states). 13050 electors / 16 that voted their own way = 0.0012. 1/8th of 1%. A little over 1 in a thousand. A rounding error.
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 06:25
  #15034 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
WC - I understand the word "pedant." Do you understand the word "trivial?"

Put those numbers on a percentage basis, and you get 16 faithless electors in the past 29 Presidential elections (to 1900). Being very conservative, let's call that 450 electors per election (actually 538 today, but we've added a few states). 13050 electors / 16 that voted their own way = 0.0012. 1/8th of 1%. A little over 1 in a thousand. A rounding error.
Don't like being corrected I guess. Yup, trivial, statistically insignificant yet worthy of noting that it does happen.
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 07:05
  #15035 (permalink)  
 
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I am with West Coast on this one. Many electors can vote as they please, when so-called faithless electors (quite legally) have ignored the wishes of those who voted for them. Not many, and not often, but still ....

Many people do not seem to understand the role of the electoral college, that it's used to create two classes of voter. If you live in New York City or LA, for example, your vote is worth less than that of some clod-hopper out in "fly-over country." The principle behind this is that more populous urban centers can not dominate the national vote. If we simply went with the popular vote then candidates could focus on major cities, ignoring rural areas, to win. With what we have, the votes of ignorant rubes, horny-handed sons of the soil, matter as much or more as those of over-educated, panty-waist city dwellers, thus ensuring years of sniping and dissension following the election of anyone who gets into office despite losing the popular vote: George Walker Bush and Donald John Trump being two recent examples of this. It's sheer genius!

In fact this "faithless electors" thing was key to a fantasy scenario envisioned as a way to prevent Trump taking office: having faithless electors vote against him despite his electoral vote win. It did not happen, of course, but in theory it certainly could have, since many states still do not require electors to conform to the way the voting ran.

Another quirk of our system is that all but two states have a "winner takes all" way of apportioning the electoral votes. You might win 51% of the popular vote, but get 100% of the electoral votes. This is the way that Trump got into office despite having 3.5 million fewer people having voted for him. (Of course, Trump being Trump, he has to make out that, no, there were 3.5 million fake votes cast, all for Hillary. One of the few cases proven of a fake vote having been cast was that of a woman who did vote twice ... for Trump.)

The Secret Service, despite its name, has no intelligence function. That's probably just as well since now they are tasked with protecting a man who has no functioning intelligence. Did anyone else catch Trump trying to answer the question about his stance on a "hard Brexit"? He was stood there waffling, pretending to have mis-heard that as a question about "heartbreak," when it was clear that he had no basic understanding of Brexit, let alone what the difference should be between a hard or a soft Brexit.

We can often see why Trump needs to hide behind Sarah Huckabee Sanders, with her "I'll get back to you on that," non-answer to anything Trump has not a clue about, and why he has set a new record for not having formal press conferences, with just one held in his first year in office. Shouted questions on the lawn with engine noise from Marine One in the background, and these brainless one-sided Tweets are no real substitute for formal press conferences, when this is just another violation of long-standing tradition because we have elected an evil clown. We are left trying to figure out what Trump means with his word salads and his Tweets, as with "covfefe."
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 07:13
  #15036 (permalink)  
 
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Dearie me, for the amount of lies this berk tells you would think by now he would be good at it, but......

Umm...urrrh
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 07:22
  #15037 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gault View Post
Dearie me, for the amount of lies this berk tells you would think by now he would be good at it, but......

Umm...urrrh
Indeed, if he gets that confused then I hope to God there aren't two buttons on his desk in the Oval Office. Explaining away nuclear armageddon by saying "sorry folks, I mispressed" would hardly cut the mustard!!

What amazes me is, judging by the clips from US radio phone-ins that BBC PM Programme played last evening just how blind some of his die hard supporters are to his constant lies. They sound like I would expect North Koreans to sound on a radio phone-in blindly supporting their "great leader".
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 08:08
  #15038 (permalink)  
 
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As to North Korea, I suppose you caught Trump's remarks about how when Kim Jong Un wants it, his entire nation gives him their full attention. Later, of course, Trump was said to have been "joking" when he said that. That is as may be, but taken in context it seems that Trump has a sincere liking and admiration for many tyrants, Kim, Duterte, and most of all Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. Trump's latest fawning over Putin simply underscores the way Trump ignored his briefing notes, with "Do Not Congratulate," to do exactly that, congratulating Putin for winning his rigged re-election.

Then there is the way that Trump "joked" about becoming President for Life .... What a funny, funny man!

In lighter moments I wonder how the Donald is going to deal with the fact that Putin's new car, the Cortege, is significantly bigger than his Beast. Is some LA chop shop handling a request to turn the Beast into a Stretch?

Is "Pimp My Ride" still on? "Yo, Dog, we heard that you was wanting something longer than that Commie's whip, so check it out: 24 inches extra in the middle, and blue flashing LEDs in all the wheel wells!"
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 08:48
  #15039 (permalink)  
 
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It is entertaining in a not expected political way. You have to wonder if the neurons were all firing in sequence if a president can screw up a prepared statement about a serious matter like that. Alternatively he meant what he originally said. (and when he said it...he said it with emphasis.)

I do like the specific use of the word "meddled". So folksy -"Jimmy. You still meddling with that darn tractor?"
So much nicer and less threatening than words like " sabotaged".
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 09:27
  #15040 (permalink)  

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On 22nd Jul 2017 I wrote,

"If I were Putin and wanted to seriously damage the USA for minimal risk and expense, I would have set up an long-term operation to try and get a hard/alt-right President elected as 45.

Very low-risk plan, check-out the possibles. Lets see, there's this cuckoo and there's that nut-job and finally someone says "Why not Trump?". After the laughter dies down, someone says, "Do you think he'll bite? Bit risky for him with all the shady deals he's into with some of our bad boys?" "True," says Putin, "but he's very ignorant and very vain - ideal, in fact, as we already have plenty of kompromat on him - let's plant some seeds and see what happens. If he doesn't bite I can think of a few others we could try. Lets face it, any Republican would be better that that Clinton bitch."

"And if we fail and she wins anyway?", "Then we've lost nothing, but if we can get some dumb far-right Republican yahoo in then we're off to the races - we won't have to do anything much and America will obligingly tear itself to bits. And WE can pick up the pieces. A President like that would be so divisive that American democracy will never recover - suka, blyad!".


So they got Trump in - and after a bit they began to realise that they'd struck the mother-lode, far far better than they had ever dreamed of or hoped for . . ."

Mac
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