US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,567
Written by the descendant of immigrants and dedicated to the symbol of liberty enlightening the world. That torch has been well and truly extinguished by Trump.
Lacking that we can continue to blame this on Obama or your favorite choice (???) and ensure that nothing changes
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vendee
Posts: 141
BA Engineer's chart is from the Economist and thus can be treated as very reliable reporting.
For those who wish more background on NATO here is a good primer: https://www.nato.int/cps/ie/natohq/topics_67655.htm
Note what Article 5 does and does not entail.
For those who wish more background on NATO here is a good primer: https://www.nato.int/cps/ie/natohq/topics_67655.htm
Note what Article 5 does and does not entail.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 74
Posts: 1,561
Fixed that for you ....
A man goes into a bar in New York where all the bar staff are robots and orders a whisky.
The robot serves him his drink and asks him what his IQ is.
When he says “168” the robot spends five minutes chatting to him about nuclear physics, advanced brain surgery and microchip design.
After leaving the bar the man pauses to think about what he has just encountered and goes back into the bar and orders another whisky.
Again, the robot asks what his IQ is and this time he says “100”.
This time the robot chats to him about Nascar, wrestling and football.
He finishes his drink, goes outside then returns to continue his experiment.
When his whisky arrives the robot again asks him for his IQ and this time he says “50”.
The robot serves his drink, reaches under the bar and comes up with a cheap red hat, made in China, with "Make America Great Again" embroidered on it. "Here, buddy, have a hat, and wear it with pride!"
As to NATO, the facts are different from what Trump is claiming them to be. The goal is for each member to spend 2% of GDP on defense; there is not a fixed sum due each year to Nato.
NATO is not like the UN. There it is the USA who does not pay its dues, for reals. See if you can get Trump to tell us why that is okay.
The robot serves him his drink and asks him what his IQ is.
When he says “168” the robot spends five minutes chatting to him about nuclear physics, advanced brain surgery and microchip design.
After leaving the bar the man pauses to think about what he has just encountered and goes back into the bar and orders another whisky.
Again, the robot asks what his IQ is and this time he says “100”.
This time the robot chats to him about Nascar, wrestling and football.
He finishes his drink, goes outside then returns to continue his experiment.
When his whisky arrives the robot again asks him for his IQ and this time he says “50”.
The robot serves his drink, reaches under the bar and comes up with a cheap red hat, made in China, with "Make America Great Again" embroidered on it. "Here, buddy, have a hat, and wear it with pride!"
As to NATO, the facts are different from what Trump is claiming them to be. The goal is for each member to spend 2% of GDP on defense; there is not a fixed sum due each year to Nato.
NATO is not like the UN. There it is the USA who does not pay its dues, for reals. See if you can get Trump to tell us why that is okay.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vendee
Posts: 141
Originally Posted by chuks
As to NATO, the facts are different from what Trump is claiming them to be. The goal is for each member to spend 2% of GDP on defense; there is not a fixed sum due each year to Nato.
Bingo. That is what I was trying to get across. That it is not like a monthly payment in a fixed amount. I know though that we are tilting at windmills with this. Trump Nation will rally to his mis-characterisation no matter how wide of the mark it is. Heaven forfend that he and his acolytes would read the actual NATO documentation.
Join Date: May 2018
Location: London/Fort Worth
Posts: 8
Well you can argue all day long over Trumps wording but the fact remains that Germany is spending 50% less on defense than it should be under the NATO agreement - they need to stop sponging off the US (and that applies to the rest of NATO who are not meeting their responsibilities).
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,863
Originally Posted by sfm818
Written by the descendant of immigrants and dedicated to the symbol of liberty enlightening the world. That torch has been well and truly extinguished by Trump.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,863
Originally Posted by Uncle Fred
Bingo. That is what I was trying to get across. That it is not like a monthly payment in a fixed amount. I know though that we are tilting at windmills with this. Trump Nation will rally to his mis-characterisation no matter how wide of the mark it is. Heaven forfend that he and his acolytes would read the actual NATO documentation.
More likely Germany invests in another social program that lowers its defense spending knowing the nuclear umbrella still protects them.
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: apogee
Age: 67
Posts: 69
Will no one legally immigrate to the US this year
A convoy of three SUVs was intercepted just north of the border today in Texas, full of illegal immigrants. Two were stopped, one fled and subsequently crashed in a rollover at 140 kph. 5 illegals out of 14 inside were killed.
There has been a re-defining of the meaning of immigrant. Now if you do not qualify for normal immigration you become an asylum seeker from just about any hardship you can dream up and travel across the borders of 2 to twelve safe (safer) countries to get to your desired destination. There is a well established industry to assist to you in your goals for the standard hefty price of dollars/euros and danger.
Amongst the immigrants ferried to Spain this week were several Bangladeshi's.
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: n/a
Posts: 27
Originally Posted by lomapaseo
Time to write a law that represents the people's choice
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 74
Posts: 1,561
Germany has increased its defense spending due to shortcomings being brought to light. For years the Bundeswehr has had a sort of peacetime army image. (That said, the last time Germany had a real go-to-hell wartime army then things did not work out so very well as all that.) Until recently most guys went into the "Bund'' hoping for a cushy berth with no real expectation of ever going to war. Sure there were guys who volunteered for the paratroops or the mountain troops, real hardcore elite soldiering, but for most it was just a sort of interlude much like the US National Guard used to be, a way of wearing a uniform with almost no risk of being shot at.
Or ... there was no need even for the Trump Option: fake bone spurs. You simply moved to Berlin to be completely exempt from national service, or else you volunteered to do public service, such as helping out at an old people's home. Many men took that option instead of going into the peacetime German military.
In fact (there's that word again) there's been a lot of attention paid to the present sorry state of the German military. Many things are out of service due to lack of spares (Tornado aircraft, 50% of Leopard 2 tanks ); not yet fully in service due to being both greatly delayed and also sort of crap (A400M).
Then there is the G36 standard infantry rifle that won't shoot straight when it gets hot, as from being fired in a hot climate. What, if you shoot at some particular ISIS guy you hit the man stood next to him? "Abdul, why you stand so far away from me? Is it that I not wash for three weeks now so 'smell like goat'? You like goat, in special way, right?
"No, no, Achmed. It is the Germans; they are shooting at you!"
Or ... there was no need even for the Trump Option: fake bone spurs. You simply moved to Berlin to be completely exempt from national service, or else you volunteered to do public service, such as helping out at an old people's home. Many men took that option instead of going into the peacetime German military.
In fact (there's that word again) there's been a lot of attention paid to the present sorry state of the German military. Many things are out of service due to lack of spares (Tornado aircraft, 50% of Leopard 2 tanks ); not yet fully in service due to being both greatly delayed and also sort of crap (A400M).
Then there is the G36 standard infantry rifle that won't shoot straight when it gets hot, as from being fired in a hot climate. What, if you shoot at some particular ISIS guy you hit the man stood next to him? "Abdul, why you stand so far away from me? Is it that I not wash for three weeks now so 'smell like goat'? You like goat, in special way, right?
"No, no, Achmed. It is the Germans; they are shooting at you!"
Last edited by chuks; 18th Jun 2018 at 10:27.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Lost, but often Indonesia
Posts: 635
"Right now the people's choice could announce on twitter that a burning bush spoke words of command to him, and his narrow thinking support base would write those commands into law."
No need for that when God, Jesus and the Bible are dictating what is right and wrong. There are charlatan preachers "talking" to God then telling the faithful that God actually sent Trump to MAGA (When was it great, exactly?). The AG of the US, Jeff Sessions is defending the horror of the stripping of children including breast feeding infants from their mothers because the Bible says it is OK. The VP of the US, who will not meet with a woman unchaperoned for religious reasons, agrees. (However you paint it, it's nothing less than government sanctioned child abuse.)
Democracy in the US is unravelling and has been for a while. Consider this, had Clinton won, 4 out of 5 presidents would have been father and son or husband and wife. Hardly the sign of a healthy democracy. Now an unhinged, unqualified, corrupt, semi literate, incoherent and unrepentant president along with an acquiescent GOP, ignoring historical norms, values and accountability of governance are taking the US into uncharted territory.
The biggest threat to the US is not NK, China, Russia or trade inbalances, the biggest threat to the US is itself...
No need for that when God, Jesus and the Bible are dictating what is right and wrong. There are charlatan preachers "talking" to God then telling the faithful that God actually sent Trump to MAGA (When was it great, exactly?). The AG of the US, Jeff Sessions is defending the horror of the stripping of children including breast feeding infants from their mothers because the Bible says it is OK. The VP of the US, who will not meet with a woman unchaperoned for religious reasons, agrees. (However you paint it, it's nothing less than government sanctioned child abuse.)
Democracy in the US is unravelling and has been for a while. Consider this, had Clinton won, 4 out of 5 presidents would have been father and son or husband and wife. Hardly the sign of a healthy democracy. Now an unhinged, unqualified, corrupt, semi literate, incoherent and unrepentant president along with an acquiescent GOP, ignoring historical norms, values and accountability of governance are taking the US into uncharted territory.
The biggest threat to the US is not NK, China, Russia or trade inbalances, the biggest threat to the US is itself...
Last edited by Octane; 18th Jun 2018 at 11:00.
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: apogee
Age: 67
Posts: 69
Ah, the blueprints (probably should read - CAD program) for "great again".
Tricky structure to build, all things considered. All the pieces have to fit well and be built better, and the architect has to be at the top of his game.
Tricky structure to build, all things considered. All the pieces have to fit well and be built better, and the architect has to be at the top of his game.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: fairly close to the colonial capitol
Age: 54
Posts: 1,692
The enemies of our political system are: unfettered greed, a whirlwind of banana republic/Putin-esque disinformation, and voter apathy - and they are all linked.
The keys to defeating such anti-democratic foes are, respectively, campaign finance reform/media ownership restrictions, calling out liars and their enablers with public shaming and, where appropriate, impeachment. Take care of the first two, and voter apathy will correct itself.
For now, let's focus on just one issue - Campaign Finance Reform: Since the turn of the 20th century we have had laws against corporate money influencing Federal elections, buttressed by mid-century laws against organized labor from doing the same, and since 1974, individual limits on campaign contributions (originally $1,000/candidate, now $2,700).
Those tools and wise defenders of our democracy have been undercut by the more recent advance of the use of what is known as "soft money", and with that came political ads chock full of bold-faced lies and glaring mistruths, literally emanating from the shadows.
The disastrous, divided court (5/4) Citizen's United decision has only made things worse - allowing an unprecedented flow of untraceable, even foreign money, into the public trust of our electioneering process, enabling a dramatic increase in the flow of "dark money" since the court's controversial ruling.
The keys to defeating such anti-democratic foes are, respectively, campaign finance reform/media ownership restrictions, calling out liars and their enablers with public shaming and, where appropriate, impeachment. Take care of the first two, and voter apathy will correct itself.
For now, let's focus on just one issue - Campaign Finance Reform: Since the turn of the 20th century we have had laws against corporate money influencing Federal elections, buttressed by mid-century laws against organized labor from doing the same, and since 1974, individual limits on campaign contributions (originally $1,000/candidate, now $2,700).
Those tools and wise defenders of our democracy have been undercut by the more recent advance of the use of what is known as "soft money", and with that came political ads chock full of bold-faced lies and glaring mistruths, literally emanating from the shadows.
The disastrous, divided court (5/4) Citizen's United decision has only made things worse - allowing an unprecedented flow of untraceable, even foreign money, into the public trust of our electioneering process, enabling a dramatic increase in the flow of "dark money" since the court's controversial ruling.
The biggest threat to the US is not NK, China, Russia or trade inbalances, the biggest threat to the US is itself...
Last edited by vapilot2004; 18th Jun 2018 at 16:59.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: cowtown
Posts: 600
Any fallacy of Government of the People , by the People , for the People died when they allowed corruptible machines to count the vote.
As Stalin said " Who votes does not count, Who counts the votes that matters "
Any country to lazy to count the votes under scrutiny deserves the mess that follows a corrupted flawed process.
The hanging Chad's should have changed the process back to the Pirates treasure map way of voting . X marks the spot on a piece of paper. When done under scrutiny can save a country from those who would exploit the situation of lack of integrity to undermine governance. To give those political enemies oxygen against what could be a legitimate
Government , if they had bothered to count the votes in a manner that could not be rigged or questioned.
Any vote counting should be done to avoid controversy. The value of a countries fiat currency is dependent on the Government being legitimate.
As Stalin said " Who votes does not count, Who counts the votes that matters "
Any country to lazy to count the votes under scrutiny deserves the mess that follows a corrupted flawed process.
The hanging Chad's should have changed the process back to the Pirates treasure map way of voting . X marks the spot on a piece of paper. When done under scrutiny can save a country from those who would exploit the situation of lack of integrity to undermine governance. To give those political enemies oxygen against what could be a legitimate
Government , if they had bothered to count the votes in a manner that could not be rigged or questioned.
Any vote counting should be done to avoid controversy. The value of a countries fiat currency is dependent on the Government being legitimate.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: fairly close to the colonial capitol
Age: 54
Posts: 1,692
While I have no problem with a national voter ID system, the fact remains, there has been a mere handful of cases of proven voter fraud in the US over the past few decades.
Federal election fraud would be extremely difficult to successfully carry out in today's system and the impact contrasted against the influence of dark electioneering money is comparable to a bit of spittle against a hurricane gale.
Federal election fraud would be extremely difficult to successfully carry out in today's system and the impact contrasted against the influence of dark electioneering money is comparable to a bit of spittle against a hurricane gale.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: God's Country
Posts: 133
Originally Posted by Octane
Hardly the sign of a healthy democracy. Now an unhinged, unqualified, corrupt, semi literate, incoherent and unrepentant president .
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,115
Originally Posted by BAengineer
As well as counting the votes honestly you also need voter ID to ensure that only those entitled to vote actually do - without that your Democratic system is flawed.
But if that's the way they want it, then fine. However, the burden of proving that an individual is not qualified to vote must fall on the State, not on the individual. Voting is a right, and no individual shall be required to provide proof of that right, any more than an individual under trial for a criminal act can be required to prove their innocence. If the State cannot prove their guilt, they go free. If the State cannot prove they are not qualified to vote - they vote.
No voter identity program will be perfect - there will always be bureaucratic failures and mistakes. One has the choice of placing the burden of such errors on the individual ("It is better that a hundred legitimate voters be denied their rights, than that even one illegitimate voter sneak through by mistake") - or placing the burden on the State ("It is better that a hundred illegitimate voters sneak through by mistake, than that even one legitimate voter be denied their rights.")
The second approach is the one that maximizes human rights and freedoms. The first will function to reduce the liberties and freedoms of individuals. But if one prefers the State over the individual, I guess that makes sense. "Your papers, PLIS!"
https://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf...eys_drive.html
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: cowtown
Posts: 600
In countries where no voter ID is required , after voting you get ink on your thumb.
The ink washes off after a couple of days, but it does prevent busloads of dead people voting at twelve different polls on voting day in some cities.
Rather than the cute little sticker saying that you voted. Dip your thumb in ink that proves you have given a thumbs up to the conversation
The ink washes off after a couple of days, but it does prevent busloads of dead people voting at twelve different polls on voting day in some cities.
Rather than the cute little sticker saying that you voted. Dip your thumb in ink that proves you have given a thumbs up to the conversation
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by West Coast
If Germany decided to spend zero, that would be just fine according to your logic.
More likely Germany invests in another social program that lowers its defense spending knowing the nuclear umbrella still protects them.
