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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 9th Jun 2018, 23:53
  #14321 (permalink)  
 
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Populism. Hmm. How frustrating for the Founders to be unable to see the future they sought to build.

How dangerous and misleading for current “scholars” to be so misled by their hubris and arrogance in their “interpretation” of populism such that they display such ignorance in presenting the eighteenth century as so instructive of the non existent consonance of the two, separated as they are by almost three hundred years. Must be some money in it.

There never existed an early understanding of how ignorantly current governance would violate the two principles of civilization and its command to those who would “rule”: “Don’t Steal, hurt no one.”

Pretending there is some sort of relationship between the innocent philosophies of our founders and the current crop of crime families in charge is ignorant and criminal.
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 00:37
  #14322 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
They were all supposed to agree to do something about the massive, killing, floating islands of plastic crap polluting our rivers and oceans.
Was this the G-7 agenda? I must have missed that one.

What do you think they should have done about it? Would the solution have involved anything other than raising taxes on the successful populations?
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 00:40
  #14323 (permalink)  
 
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Populism. Hmm. How frustrating for the Founders to be unable to see the future
pop·u·lism
ˈpäpyəˌlizəm/
nounnoun: populism
  1. support for the concerns of ordinary people.
Something wrong with that, concours?
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 03:28
  #14324 (permalink)  
 
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Rather a gut check for the Canadians today. Mr. Trump blow-torches Trudeau from AF1. Will be interesting to see how many Canadians fall in behind Mr. Trump in an odd permutation of the Stockholm Syndrome. On the other hand, I know that while democracy in North America is rapidly falling out of favor, he did insult your democratically elected leader whether you like him or not.

Of course ladies and gentlemen don't rise to the bait so perhaps this will be meet with silence.

As a non-political point, it seems that a re-rationalisation of tarriffs would serve the trading bloc countries in the long run. Get some of the barnacles that have acreted over the years off the ship of trade

Of course each country ploughs massive subsidies into special areas such as farming so what to do on the home front?

Last edited by Uncle Fred; 10th Jun 2018 at 03:38.
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 03:32
  #14325 (permalink)  
 
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You have to ask if there's something wrong?

OB, look at the mess that Venezuela is in, when that's often taken to be the consequence of populism, Chavismo. What started as a way to deal with some of the concerns of the ordinary people (while also securing popular support for Hugo Chávez) has resulted in the ruin of Venezuela.

In our case Trump's brand of populism usually is mere faked concern for the concerns of ordinary people. Not reform of our system of justice, for instance, but instead the highly publicized pardon of one particular convict, Alice Johnson. She's out, but the system that locked her up is still in place. Meanwhile, Trump rails against the idea of all suspects being given due process, or even being protected against physical harm when being arrested. (The so-called Central Park Five? Trump wanted to see them executed, when it turned out that they were innocent. Even then, he still wanted to see something done to them, just because .... )

It's easy to see through Trump's posing populism, while Venezuela is a horrible example of populism gone wrong.
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 03:40
  #14326 (permalink)  
 
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The ocean plastics thing was on the agenda among other environmental concerns. They(some of them) might have chipped at it, but I haven't heard.
And it will cost money.to try to fix a human error and the only money comes from taxes or business. Gotta be done - it continues to get worse. Stupid mankind, can't even dispose of garbage properly.

As far as any insults. We can identify blowhards and boors and treat them appropriately. No biggie.
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 03:42
  #14327 (permalink)  
 
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Chuks, let's be honest here: other that just saying so, just how did Chavez indicate concern for the "common people"? His socialist policies, supported when he started out philosophically by our leftists in North America, simply provided ways for him to steal billions from his own people. He dissembled whatever capitalistic functions existed in his country, thus ensuring that there was no means of producing the goods and services required by the "common people", down to the point where they ran out of toilet paper.

I see no correlation whatsoever between Chavez and Trump. If you are going to lump them together under the term "populist", that is simply to try to convince us that Trump wishes America to become Venezuela. Not buying it. Moreover, we have a Constitution which would prevent it.
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 03:55
  #14328 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
The ocean plastics thing was on the agenda among other environmental concerns. They(some of them) might have chipped at it, but I haven't heard.
And it will cost money.to try to fix a human error and the only money comes from taxes or business. Gotta be done - it continues to get worse. Stupid mankind, can't even dispose of garbage properly.

As far as any insults. We can identify blowhards and boors and treat them appropriately. No biggie.
I agree on the plastics issue. This is something that almost everyone should agree on as our oceans are now our refuse bin. Acknowledge the problem and steer science and the free market to start coming up with solutions.

I liked Trudeau's response of the Canadians being polite and reasonable but won't get pushed around. Touche.
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 04:07
  #14329 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uncle Fred View Post
Rather a gut check for the Canadians today. Mr. Trump blow-torches Trudeau from AF1. Will be interesting to see how many Canadians fall in behind Mr. Trump in an odd permutation of the Stockholm Syndrome. On the other hand, I know that while democracy in North America is rapidly falling out of favor, he did insult your democratically elected leader whether you like him or not.
I dont have any dog in this fight but as Canada and the US are supposedly in NAFTA I was rather surprised to learn that there were still import tariffs of 260% on US dairy products into Canada.

What happened to free trade?
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 04:13
  #14330 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BAengineer View Post
I dont have any dog in this fight but as Canada and the US are supposedly in NAFTA I was rather surprised to learn that there were still import tariffs of 260% on US dairy products into Canada.

What happened to free trade?
Nor do I have a dog fighting and wondered the same thing. I hope there will be a good explanation forthwith.

All I could think of is this is something that acretes over time as a patch is made here and there with cut-out exemptions made for this and that so as to keep the gravy train running for favoured areas of the home economy. Pretty soon one has a mish mash overlaying the basic NAFTA agreement. Perhaps an update is needed.
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 04:30
  #14331 (permalink)  
 
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Here's one opinion:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ticle34802291/
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 05:18
  #14332 (permalink)  
 
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Bottom line - dairy farms are very uneconomic practically everywhere, and thus supported one way or another. Every country (including EU countries, and thus for the moment the UK) protects, controls or subsidises dairy output. Canada does it by supply management (quotas for their own farmers, plus tariffs on imports - keep the supply limited) - the US does it with government purchases (milk > cheese > food banks, school lunch programs, foreign aid packages) and its own import limits (no limits on internal production, but the output absorbed). Avoidance of lactose, and animal fats (butter) has put even more pressure on dairy products.

- EU dairy subsidies (as of the last date dairy was broken out separately - 2004) - €970 million, of which €119 went to British dairy farmers.
- Canada Govt. spends nothing (except administrative costs), but their consumers pay more due to the production limits and tariffs, which produce higher store prices.
- U.S. subsidies as purchase of (over)production - $1 billion+

Almost all countries want to preserve "a way of life" - rural farming. That is to say, more or less 9000-year-old technology (with some modern upgrades) here in the 21st century. Truly free trade would probably mean one single entity (the US, or Canada, or the EU) producing (efficiently, with 21st-century tech) enough milk supply for the whole world, although obviously "local and fresh" has some value. The US would love to be the world's producer of dairy products, to keep our farmers happy. But other countries have their own markets to protect and serve.

NAFTA is an agreement - thus something that had and has to be agreed among all parties. Dairy was always going to be problematic because there simply isn't enough market for all three countries to keep their farms going absent protections. So there was a carve-out for that (and many other things), while generally removing or limiting the majority of trade restrictions.
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 06:16
  #14333 (permalink)  
 
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Justify has won the Triple Crown.
Will Trump complain?


He was bred in Kentucky by Canadian John D. Gunther, who runs Glennwood Farm.
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 06:22
  #14334 (permalink)  
 
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Like most events of this nature, this G-7 session had little to do with some sort of consensus about some issue (that's why they chose gender, and plastics, and climate), and everything to do with local politics.

Each leader was playing to his home base:
Trump was throwing some red meat to his supporters, and enjoying agitating his detractors. We have elections coming up.
Trudeau is seeing his popularity plummet, and he understands the "standing up to America" is always popular at home -- he has elections on the horizon, and his party got thrown out in Ontario provincial elections this week.
Macron likewise is finding that governing France like herding cats -- it never works. Best to attack America.
Merkel is trying to get Germans to forget their current invasion. Let's have a go at the US.
May I'm not so sure about, except she's trying to push through a Brexit she didn't want. A distraction is good for her too.
That leaves the Italian (new guy), and the Japanese guy, to stand around and watch the chaos.

All politics is local. G-7 included. Nothing like what the invitations said.
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 07:20
  #14335 (permalink)  
 
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"One of us suggested Kim-Jong has an interesting hairstyle and he left, before the final communiqué,
muttering something about going to DEFCON 2. I swear to you Barack. This man-child is impossible
".

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Old 10th Jun 2018, 08:41
  #14336 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
Was this the G-7 agenda? I must have missed that one.

What do you think they should have done about it? Would the solution have involved anything other than raising taxes on the successful populations?
Don't know about you guys, but we're chipping in 100 million NOK for starters.
Per
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 09:02
  #14337 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post

Body language seems to say it all.

Same picture, but you can see the blank look in Herr Trump's eyes:
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 13:02
  #14338 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by vapilot2004 View Post
Body language seems to say it all.

Same picture, but you can see the blank look in Herr Trump's eyes:
Something has to support her position, looks like it’s a table this time. Rest of the room ain’t buying what she’s selling.
Hopefully the other six will now reevaluate their own political positions at home.
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 13:44
  #14339 (permalink)  
 
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Concours77,
How dangerous and misleading for current “scholars” to be so misled by their hubris and arrogance in their “interpretation” of populism such that they display such ignorance in presenting the eighteenth century as so instructive of the non existent consonance of the two, separated as they are by almost three hundred years. Must be some money in it.
There was and is. If Trump lived in the Hamilton, Madison, Jefferson era, Trump and Hamilton would be the best of friends. Hamilton would have been a member of the Mar-a-Lago Club, then located in NYC. Jefferson & Madison, representing the average American, would have been thrown under Trump's wagon as it passed on the way to the Club. Trump is all about himself, then, now and forever.
BTW, you might consider writing in "common english" for clarity purposes...

Last edited by Turbine D; 10th Jun 2018 at 13:47. Reason: added a word
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 14:38
  #14340 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
Bottom line - dairy farms are very uneconomic practically everywhere, and thus supported one way or another. Every country (including EU countries, and thus for the moment the UK) protects, controls or subsidises dairy output. Canada does it by supply management (quotas for their own farmers, plus tariffs on imports - keep the supply limited) - the US does it with government purchases (milk > cheese > food banks, school lunch programs, foreign aid packages) and its own import limits (no limits on internal production, but the output absorbed). Avoidance of lactose, and animal fats (butter) has put even more pressure on dairy products.

- EU dairy subsidies (as of the last date dairy was broken out separately - 2004) - €970 million, of which €119 went to British dairy farmers.
- Canada Govt. spends nothing (except administrative costs), but their consumers pay more due to the production limits and tariffs, which produce higher store prices.
- U.S. subsidies as purchase of (over)production - $1 billion+

Almost all countries want to preserve "a way of life" - rural farming. That is to say, more or less 9000-year-old technology (with some modern upgrades) here in the 21st century. Truly free trade would probably mean one single entity (the US, or Canada, or the EU) producing (efficiently, with 21st-century tech) enough milk supply for the whole world, although obviously "local and fresh" has some value. The US would love to be the world's producer of dairy products, to keep our farmers happy. But other countries have their own markets to protect and serve.

NAFTA is an agreement - thus something that had and has to be agreed among all parties. Dairy was always going to be problematic because there simply isn't enough market for all three countries to keep their farms going absent protections. So there was a carve-out for that (and many other things), while generally removing or limiting the majority of trade restrictions.
Does the US similarly place tariffs on Canadian dairy? Assuming for a moment your narrative is accurate, I’m essentially taking a double hit. Indirectly I’m supporting the Canadian dairy industry by being locked out of competing by an uneven playing ground. Directly I’m paying to subsidize the US dairy market as they can’t export to a large market immediately adjacent.

False advertising to say NAFTA is about free trade, need to change the name.

How many other products are there where there’s similar protections?





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