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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0


Old 7th Dec 2017, 14:13
  #10881 (permalink)  
 
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That's It?

It looks like the foundation for prosecution will be the meeting at Trump Tower with the lady Russki, and others.

The goal of the meeting? To get dirt on Hillary.

Once Kushner saw nothing, he bailed.

Am I missing something? Because Oppositional research is perfectly legal.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 14:31
  #10882 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Concours77 View Post
It looks like the foundation for prosecution will be the meeting at Trump Tower with the lady Russki, and others.

The goal of the meeting? To get dirt on Hillary.

Once Kushner saw nothing, he bailed.

Am I missing something? Because Oppositional research is perfectly legal.
So Kushner was offered dirt on Hilary by the Russians but nothing came of it - whereas the Democratic Party paid the Russians for (false) dirt on Trump.

And one side is good and the other bad... is that right?
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 14:41
  #10883 (permalink)  
 
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Publishing what is true is called journalism. Publishing what is false is libel.

Conspiring to publish libel is a felony, though libel itself may not be.

Good? Bad?
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 15:49
  #10884 (permalink)  
 
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It's a damn shame HRC was the nominee. I have an idea Bernie would have wiped the ballroom floor with Trump's hairpiece.
If my aunt had wheels, she’d be a trolley, too.


And the market would have taken a 6000 point tumble instead of 6000 points up. 12,000 points on the Dow would have been a killer.

GF
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 16:08
  #10885 (permalink)  
 
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Mideast leaders accuse Trump of inflaming the region with Jerusalem move
That's a headline I read this morning. A case of the pots all calling the kettle black. (That said, I didn't see this as necessary, we've somehow managed to maintain relationships with Israel with the embassy being in Tel Aviv for all these years ....)
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 16:14
  #10886 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Concours77 View Post
Publishing what is true is called journalism. Publishing what is false is libel.
It's a damn good thing your commander in chief has immunity
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 16:44
  #10887 (permalink)  
 
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JetII and Concours77 - better read up on federal law regarding campaign contributions, conspiracy, and related matters.

It is illegal for foreign nationals to contribute to a Federal US political campaign. It is illegal for Americans to conspire with foreign nationals to acquire a campaign contribution. Campaign contributions can be "in kind" (meaning delivery of information or other support) and not just money.

Note that "foreign nationals" includes any non-US citizen (a private lawyer, an oligarch Putin drinking buddy), as well as officlal government representatives.

Arranging to acquire "free" campaign intelligence (an "in-kind" donation) from foreign nationals is thus a violation of the law. Even if nothing comes of the arrangement or the information, the mere attempt constitutes "conspiracy" - an arrangement, plus at least one overt action by any party involved. Misprision of felony (concealment of a felony committed by others - the foreign nationals) may also apply.

Arranging to promote a change in US policy, or suggesting such a change (removal of sanctions, changing the GOP party platform to delete a plank favoring arming Ukraine) in exchange for the information or other support from a foreign national, constitutes a "quid pro quo" - quite possibly bribery.

However - paying a foreign national cash for information means the source is not making a donation. It is legal to buy something that is illegal to accept as a gift, plain and simple. One can put you in prison - the other can't.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 16:58
  #10888 (permalink)  
 
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I am, like all of us, not privy to the inner deliberations of Robert Mueller and his staff. However, I imagine them as very similar to the words of Asst. A.G. James J. Wells (Wilford Brimley) in Absence of Malice.

"Now we'll talk all day if you want to. But, come sundown, there's gonna be two things true that ain't true now. One is that the United States Department of Justice is gonna to know what in the good Christ is goin' on around here. And the other is that I'm gonna have someone's a$$ in my briefcase!"
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 17:07
  #10889 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
JetII and Concours77 - better read up on federal law regarding campaign contributions, conspiracy, and related matters.

It is illegal for foreign nationals to contribute to a Federal US political campaign. It is illegal for Americans to conspire with foreign nationals to acquire a campaign contribution. Campaign contributions can be "in kind" (meaning delivery of information or other support) and not just money.
Got a link for that? - i just had a look at the Federal regulation and it states this:

(e)Donation. For purposes of part 300, donation means a payment, gift, subscription, loan, advance, deposit, or anything of value given to a person, but does not include contributions.


How can you put a value on something that may or may not be true and accurate?

And if the claim is that the Trump team solicited assistance well they were approached and therefore didn't actively solicit anything. Unlike the Democrats of course who went out specifically to get the Russians to provide material on Trump.

To solicit. For the purposes of part 300, to solicit means to ask, request, or recommend, explicitly or implicitly, that another person make a contribution, donation, transfer of funds, or otherwise provide anything of value.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 17:29
  #10890 (permalink)  
 
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pif,

As to the specific meeting in discussion, there is no exposure to prosecution via FARA, since no 'agency' was offered, or existed. Absent agency, what transpired was commerce and since no transaction occurred, it was a perfectly legal conversation. If the Russian lawyer offered anything whatever, there is no control, and the meeting ended in nil.

There is latitude in the no man's land of post election transition; it is patent, and might merit discussion. Obama's expulsion of ambassadors and family was petulant, and unwarranted. Any attempt by Flynn or anyone else to mitigate the possible response of Russia can be seen as in the Country's best interest.

There existed no basis for Obama's action. There is a basis for Netanyahu to have punked him, since Obama contributed mightily (in taxpayer cash) to Ben's opponent.

Sorry, Collusion?
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 17:42
  #10891 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.lexology.com/library/det...a-95246a449ab3

Any value greater than zero counts in law - as in the cliche of one penny or one dollar received being sufficient to transfer title of a car (or anything else). An offer implies some value.

Solicitation is irrelevant - it does not matter whether you go to someone else and suggest robbing a bank, or they come to you first, if, in the end, you enter into the arrangement.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 17:48
  #10892 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
https://www.lexology.com/library/det...a-95246a449ab3

Any value greater than zero counts in law - as in the cliche of one penny or one dollar received being sufficient to transfer title of a car (or anything else). An offer implies some value.
Well the only party to actually get any information are the Democrats - part of that information was an allegation that Trumps lawyer met with the Russians in Vienna, an allegation that has proven to be totally false. So what value does fake news actually have?

Solicitation is irrelevant
Of course it insn't - it is illegal under the same Federal Law that you are citing.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 17:59
  #10893 (permalink)  
 
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Without quid there is no quo. You are talking consideration, which a gift is not.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 18:46
  #10894 (permalink)  
 
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Contract Law 101.....there must be Offer AND Acceptance for a "Deal"....or in legal terms Contract....and exchange of some thing of value to be binding.


Oh....bye the way folks....Senator Al Franken is now going to be Al "Smalley" Franken post Resignation he just announced following the Sixth Accusation of Sexual Misonduct.

Chalk up some more of the sleazy rascals in Congress....and before Chuks starts another Russian Novel length post....I am pleased whenever ANY one of the sleazy rascals gets the can tied to their tails.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 19:45
  #10895 (permalink)  
 
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2 to 1. That's the historic ratio between Republican sexual sleaze balls and Democratic ones in Congress and the federal government over the past several decades.

7 to 1. That's the ratio between Republican hypocrites involved in sex scandals and Democrats in the same situation.

I am pleased whenever ANY one of the sleazy rascals gets the can tied to their tails.
So we can share a drink of celebration when Trump is impeached and Moore is toast? What's your favorite brand ole buddy? I'll buy.

Pattern_is_full is spot on regarding campaign contributions. Although, as an aside to that conversation, I should add that thanks to Citizens United, a case that about half of the US Supreme Court got woefully wrong, foreign money can be injected into the electioneering process and it is now 100% legal.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 20:59
  #10896 (permalink)  
 
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vapilot

Spot on. Citizens United establishes campaign advertising as speech. "Congress shall make no law...."

Any statute limiting speech is not Constitutional. Much ado.....
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 21:01
  #10897 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Quake View Post
It's a damn good thing your commander in chief has immunity
No immunity. Exposure to sanction of the Executive is Limited to political remedy. Impeachment is not immunity.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 22:29
  #10898 (permalink)  
 
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The USDOJ is beginning to deal with its bias issues.

But then the Lefties will deny they exist.


Top DOJ official demoted amid probe of contacts with Trump dossier firm | Fox News
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Old 8th Dec 2017, 00:21
  #10899 (permalink)  
 
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Tom Edsall of NYT has an interesting take and his link to Ed Schnurer’s USN&WR article are thought provoking.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/07/o...2Fopinion&_r=0

Paywalled, but you can get 10 free links.

Question being, if it’s true the blue states subsidize the red ones (I think it’s more complicated than oft posed); why do they put up with it? The blue states could easily vote to kill various Federal programs that allegedly subsidize the red states and fund them in their rich blue states at less cost. By the same token, they might drive the allegedly poor red states to their knees.

GF
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Old 8th Dec 2017, 00:21
  #10900 (permalink)  
 
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Putin Controlling US Olympics Team?

Nikki Haley, America's ambassador to the United Nations, suggested that the United States' participation in February's Winter Olympics in South Korea remains up in the air, while the White House said Thursday that "no official decision has been made" regarding the games.
So Russia gets banned from the Olympics and now Trump is contemplating not participating. Direction from Putin?
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