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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 10th May 2020, 01:41
  #21841 (permalink)  
 
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the Dems, at some point, had better start demonstrating, strongly, why Biden is the right man for the job.
No rush - a significant percentage of voters don't really start paying attention to the campaigns until Labor Day (~Sept. 4).

And, in these polarized times, much of the remainder has already made up their mind one way or the other, possibly as early as the day after Election Day 2016.

UK elections run 5 weeks - that is plenty of time to acquire information and make up one's mind. If one is actually undecided.

No candidate is the official nominee of a party until the nomination vote is taken in the Conventions (or whatever passes for them in these times). "Ms. ChairMAN! Ms. CHAIRman! The Great State of Whatsichusetts - home of the Bean and the Cod - PROUDLY casts its 47 delectable votes for THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (loud cheers) - JOseph ROBinette BIden!!! (Louder cheers - campaign music - general uproar)"

A lot can happen in the next three months, let alone the next (nearly) six.

Now, eventually, you are correct. After Labor Day, there may (or may not) be debates. The campaigns (and the news coverage thereof) will ramp up to fever high pitch. And then both campaigns will have to demonstrate not only why their man is the right man, especially to independent voters - but also persuade voters even to vote at all.
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Old 10th May 2020, 04:35
  #21842 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
No rush - a significant percentage of voters don't really start paying attention to the campaigns until Labor Day (~Sept. 4).

And, in these polarized times, much of the remainder has already made up their mind one way or the other, possibly as early as the day after Election Day 2016.

UK elections run 5 weeks - that is plenty of time to acquire information and make up one's mind. If one is actually undecided.

No candidate is the official nominee of a party until the nomination vote is taken in the Conventions (or whatever passes for them in these times). "Ms. ChairMAN! Ms. CHAIRman! The Great State of Whatsichusetts - home of the Bean and the Cod - PROUDLY casts its 47 delectable votes for THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (loud cheers) - JOseph ROBinette BIden!!! (Louder cheers - campaign music - general uproar)"

A lot can happen in the next three months, let alone the next (nearly) six.

Now, eventually, you are correct. After Labor Day, there may (or may not) be debates. The campaigns (and the news coverage thereof) will ramp up to fever high pitch. And then both campaigns will have to demonstrate not only why their man is the right man, especially to independent voters - but also persuade voters even to vote at all.
I am one, no doubt among many here irrespective of party loyalties, who believes the obligations are serious when it comes to being a citizen in a democracy/republic/etc. Those obligations include trying to be well informed, voting, and holding those elected to a high standard.

Yet it is beyond my ken why any sane individual would spend 4 picoseconds watching one of those conventions or queuing up to attend a campaign rally. I find them rather cultish as the candidate says nothing of import and the campaigning season for the U.S. elections seems to be the best definition that is to be found of interminable.

Politics, whether in the U.S or UK, needs to be, like banking, made boring again.
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Old 10th May 2020, 05:39
  #21843 (permalink)  
 
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I hear what you say.

But to go back to when politics was last boring in the U.S., you'd likely have to go back to Washington's campaigns 1792-96 (except maybe for Calvin Coolidge). We've always had tub-thumping and "hoorah" and torch-light parades and so on. It was a form of entertainment as the frontier became more and more remote from the East Coast. Nativists, "Know-Nothings," Radical Republicans (vs. the other kind), name-calling, "Ma, ma, where's my Pa? Gone to the White House, Haw-haw-haw!" "You shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold!"

Politics in the form of h*ll-and-damnation fundamentalist religion, mixed with Saturday night in an old-West brothel. There's a reason we call them "Parties."
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Old 10th May 2020, 05:55
  #21844 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uncle Fred View Post
Politics, whether in the U.S or UK, needs to be, like banking, made boring again.
Compulsory voting and an electoral roll would be a good start. Australia adopted your federal and state stuff. In courts, we have the high court, based on your supreme court. Luckily we didn't use your voting system. It really suxs
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Old 10th May 2020, 09:33
  #21845 (permalink)  
 
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Well said Pattern.

golder- In the UK. Was just commenting on Pattern's description of months long U.S. campaigns. Sorry I didn't make that clear in my post.
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Old 10th May 2020, 15:05
  #21846 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by golder View Post
Compulsory voting and an electoral roll would be a good start. Australia adopted your federal and state stuff. In courts, we have the high court, based on your supreme court. Luckily we didn't use your voting system. It really suxs
Something just doesnít sit right with me about being forced to vote. Some use elections as a form of protest and choose not to vote as their message. Others such as Generals/Admirals donít vote as they prefer to remain apolitical. Same of upper ranking civil servants donít vote for the same reason. Some may also see it government overreach, I fall into that bucket.

Even if the ballot had a selection for none, one is still there by force of law and not by choice. Out of curiosity what typically is the punishment for someone who passes on showing up?
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Old 10th May 2020, 17:43
  #21847 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Something just doesnít sit right with me about being forced to vote. Some use elections as a form of protest and choose not to vote as their message. Others such as Generals/Admirals donít vote as they prefer to remain apolitical. Same of upper ranking civil servants donít vote for the same reason. Some may also see it government overreach, I fall into that bucket.

Even if the ballot had a selection for none, one is still there by force of law and not by choice. Out of curiosity what typically is the punishment for someone who passes on showing up?
Must be the full moon, but I couldn't agree more with Westie. Civil protest and civil disobedience are enshrined in any half-decent democracy. Not voting can, and should be, an acceptable form of protest to ineffective Government. The fact the the majority of non-voters are apathetic towards, or ignorant of, their political governance is a different discussion. And as Australia has proven on multiple occasions, compulsory voting doesn't actually improve or even effect the integrity or quality of elected officials...

Last edited by Two's in; 10th May 2020 at 19:30.
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Old 10th May 2020, 17:48
  #21848 (permalink)  
 
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$20 Federal
A bit higher for State.
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Old 10th May 2020, 21:11
  #21849 (permalink)  
 
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Democracy or Democracy In Name Only

Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Something just doesnít sit right with me about being forced to vote. Some use elections as a form of protest and choose not to vote as their message. Others such as Generals/Admirals donít vote as they prefer to remain apolitical. Same of upper ranking civil servants donít vote for the same reason. Some may also see it government overreach, I fall into that bucket.

Even if the ballot had a selection for none, one is still there by force of law and not by choice. Out of curiosity what typically is the punishment for someone who passes on showing up?
West Coast, I agree with you. There are two extremes that end a true democracy, laws that force you to vote or laws that prohibit voting based on dubious reasoning. IMHO, both drag a true democracy into a democracy in name only.
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Old 10th May 2020, 21:24
  #21850 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
West Coast, I agree with you. There are two extremes that end a true democracy, laws that force you to vote or laws that prohibit voting based on dubious reasoning. IMHO, both drag a true democracy into a democracy in name only.
Goes to prove some libertarian beliefs appeal to both the left and the right.
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Old 10th May 2020, 21:44
  #21851 (permalink)  
 
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In Australia, 95 years of (federal) compulsory voting doesnít seem to have unduly harmed the practice of democracy - at least according to the Democracy Index published on Wikipedia.

Far from perfect, but compulsory preferential voting seems to work for us.
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Old 10th May 2020, 21:48
  #21852 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
$20 Federal
A bit higher for State.
I think the real reason is that they couldn't stop some people from voting. If they had an electoral roll and compulsory. They like voter suppression. Let's make voting on a Tuesday, very few polling places and with hours waiting in a line.
We wouldn't stand for that in Australia.

As for democracy, we are 9th and US is 25th and classed as a flawed democracy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
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Old 10th May 2020, 22:21
  #21853 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
But to go back to when politics was last boring in the U.S., you'd likely have to go back to Washington's campaigns 1792-96 (except maybe for Calvin Coolidge).
You can't have forgotten Gerald Ford already?
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Old 10th May 2020, 23:48
  #21854 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Something just doesnít sit right with me about being forced to vote...Even if the ballot had a selection for none, one is still there by force of law and not by choice. Out of curiosity what typically is the punishment for someone who passes on showing up?
According to the act, we're legally required to attend a polling place and have our names marked off on the electoral roll, receive a ballot paper, mark it then put it in the ballot box. But as it's a secret ballot, and the AEC employees are not permitted to observe, interfere with or hinder the voter, it's entirely up to the individual what they do with the ballot paper. Mark it, not mark it, scribble on it, vote for the donkey, whatever.

Fines apply for non-attendance at a polling place, but there are a number of acceptable reasons that you can give to get the fine waived.


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Old 11th May 2020, 00:45
  #21855 (permalink)  
 
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I'm sure, sick, out of country, etc. Is not voting as a political statement one that would cause the fine to be waived?
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Old 11th May 2020, 01:01
  #21856 (permalink)  
 
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It's silly how much the parties spend to get voter turnout, To get them motivated, to go through the hoops and long lines to vote. It's also one reason your system is so polarised. Trump used racism to get turnout. That's a good idea isn't it.

In australia there are several thing you can do if you don't want or cant.You can also claim religious exemption, mental health issues, or sickness on the day etc. Of course everyone can postal vote and more and more are voting like this. There are no long lines, because there is a polling place in schools, town halls etc.We wouldn't put up with it.

Last edited by golder; 11th May 2020 at 01:11.
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Old 11th May 2020, 01:17
  #21857 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
I'm sure, sick, out of country, etc. Is not voting as a political statement one that would cause the fine to be waived?
I don't know, but at a guess, I'd say no - unless you invoked your religious beliefs.
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Old 11th May 2020, 01:28
  #21858 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by golder View Post
As for democracy, we are 9th and US is 25th and classed as a flawed democracy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
It's quite telling the US is ranked in the same category as South Africa, Panama, Mexico, Indonesia or Brazil, not exactly what comes to mind when you think of "the world's premier democracy. "

How do you fare on other rankings? I always hear the US referred to as the "land of the free" , whilst your democracy is flawed Americans must have more freedoms and rights than the rest of the world right?
Wrong. Press Freedom 45th, Political rights and Civil Liberties 53rd, Economic Freedom 17th, Freedom from violence 128th!!!, Freedom from being locked up by your own government 223rd - DEAD LAST!!!!

Looks like the rest of the world should undertake a military campaign to bring freedom and liberty to the suffering US public who are in desperate need of it.
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Old 11th May 2020, 02:09
  #21859 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
It's quite telling the US is ranked in the same category as South Africa, Panama, Mexico, Indonesia or Brazil, not exactly what comes to mind when you think of "the world's premier democracy. "

How do you fare on other rankings? I always hear the US referred to as the "land of the free" , whilst your democracy is flawed Americans must have more freedoms and rights than the rest of the world right?
Wrong. Press Freedom 45th, Political rights and Civil Liberties 53rd, Economic Freedom 17th, Freedom from violence 128th!!!, Freedom from being locked up by your own government 223rd - DEAD LAST!!!!

Looks like the rest of the world should undertake a military campaign to bring freedom and liberty to the suffering US public who are in desperate need of it.
Yet your future masters are at 153. As Oz enters the Chinese orbit, expect your place to drop on the list. You can thank the US for you being on the list to begin with.
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Old 11th May 2020, 02:17
  #21860 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Yet your future masters are at 153. As Oz enters the Chinese orbit, expect your place to drop on the list. You can thank the US for you being on the list to begin with.
The last I remember, we started as a British colony. The Chinese are our biggest trading partner and has been for years. What is the US debt to China now, they are your bank.
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