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Hillsborough

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Hillsborough

Old 12th Sep 2012, 13:13
  #1 (permalink)  
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Hillsborough Disaster

So the files are out, the fans were innocent and South Yorkshire Police are corrupt, conspiring, lying bsatards. 41 people potentially may not have died.

Fact.

Utter disgrace, so when does the prosecution of the Police begin??
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 13:31
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You MUST be joking.
Most of them involved in the F*CK *P have probably taken
early retirement, so are no longer liable for prosecution.

Last edited by Storminnorm; 12th Sep 2012 at 13:34.
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 13:36
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No doubt the CPS will decide it is not in the public interest.
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 13:43
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Most of them involved in the F*CK *P have probably taken
early retirement, so are no longer liable for prosecution.
I would have thought that there would be some statutes they could be prosecuted under but see two problems:

1) These comments "delete last para" etc are probably not signed and getting proof of the identity will be hugely difficult because nobody will be talking.

2) Is there a time-limit for prosecuting offences in GB ? Are they time-expired ?

Does show though that the police generally have always been cover-up merchants and certainly not the "protect the public " bunch they would like you to believe.

I think their motto is "Protect yourself, protect your pension, protect your mate and sod the rest ".

I know this slanders a minority of police officers who do stand for honesty and decency, but I regret that they are no longer the majority and certainly not in the higher echelons.
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 13:44
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Nothing will happen justice wise until Mrs Thatcher is dead.
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 13:51
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know this slanders a minority of police officers who do stand for honesty and decency, but I regret that they are no longer the majority and certainly not in the higher echelons.
Strong words. On what facts do you base this comment?
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 13:58
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Firstly, I WAS joking, prosecution? yeah right. One of those involved up to his eye balls is still Chief Constable of West Yorkshire. As for minority Vs Majority, the cover up wasn't done by a couple of bent coppers, it was done on large scale throughout the constabulary. It involved manipulating the press, deceiving government and smearing the dead. If it was done back then on this one case, how many other times have the Police lied, deceived, manipulated and broken the law, before and since Hillsborough??
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 14:05
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" If it was done back then on this one case, how many other times have the Police lied, deceived, manipulated and broken the law, before and since Hillsborough??"


Seems to be the current SOP ....
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 14:18
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I wouldn't like to be David Duckenfield or (Sir) Norman Bettison.

And Kelvin MacKenzie never breached a law - only humanity!!!


They all deserve whatever justice comes their way.

Last edited by unclenelli; 12th Sep 2012 at 17:44.
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 18:37
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And Kelvin MacKenzie never breached a law - only humanity!!!
Google News pointed me in the direction of a blog in The Independent.

McKenzie issues a fulsome apology but, at the same time, blames everyone else.

A few lines of the blog are worth pointing out:

"I published in good faith and I am sorry that it was so wrong."
It is in stark contrast to his previous comments about the tragedy.
Speaking five years ago he said he was not sorry for the way his paper covered events at Hillsborough.
Appearing on BBC1's Question Time, he said he only apologised at the time because he was told to by his paper's proprietor, Rupert Murdoch.
That followed comments reportedly made at a private dinner where he was alleged to have said: "I'm not sorry then and I'm not sorry now."

Despicable individual.
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 18:56
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I'm sure I'll be flamed for this but it still amazes me that people from Liverpool still think their supporters are blameless.

There is no doubt that the police cocked up and set the events in motion. Unfortunately the supporters out side didn't enter the stadium in an orderly fashion. Had they done so, then maybe events would have been different. I'm afraid it's a collective responsibility and people need to accept it even if they don't like it.

The police cover-up and finger pointing however is a different story. No excuse for that and it's not too late to name and shame or prosocute where possible.
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 19:27
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Nothing will happen justice wise until Mrs Thatcher is dead.
wondered how long it would be before some clown wheeled out the old 'blame thatcher' shtick..

4 posts before the old claptrap gets wheeled out.

Jack Straw, Labour MP and Home Secretary ruled out a fresh public inquiry during his term, it would have been a boon to labour to throw some much at the conservatives. Yet Straw, had opportunity to bring the facts out into the open and he well buried it..

BBC News | UK | Straw rejects new Hillsborough inquiry

if you want to bring politics into it then isnt Yorkshire South a ahem! Labour heartland ?

perhaps labour, in their heartland, have more to fear from the hiding of facts and the complicity of the authorities in the region.

still best not let anything get in teh way of a good old blame thatcher routine.

Last edited by stuckgear; 12th Sep 2012 at 19:31.
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 19:37
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The Sheffield police have a long history of this sort of incompetence. But maybe many of you JBers are lucky enough to be too young to remember or have even heard of the 'Sheffield Rhino Whip affair' of about 1960 or 61, and Superintendent James Rowley.
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 19:43
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I'm sure I'll be flamed for this but it still amazes me that people from Liverpool still think their supporters are blameless.

There is no doubt that the police cocked up and set the events in motion. Unfortunately the supporters out side didn't enter the stadium in an orderly fashion. Had they done so, then maybe events would have been different.
From my understanding there had been concerns raised previously as to the ability of not only the stadium, but also the authorities and local organisation.

Yes the police and emergency services cocked up the handling of the situation, however, concerns had already been raised with the local authorities as to the capacity and potential disaster situation at the stadium.

as far as I am concerned the responsibility lies with the authroties who not only dropped the ball on oversight of the stadium, its capacity and its facilities for handling the event but dropped it again after it being handed to them on a plate with the concerns having been addressed to them directly.

it's the sam as the Bradford stadium fire, which i will never forget as i watched the game live when the fire happened. the detritus and wood under the stands had previously been addressed as severe fire risk. again the authorities dropped the ball in oversight of a facility of facility hosting an event of huge public attendance.

but still, they are both in staunch labour heartlands, so best pass the blame onto the rozzers and the emergency services rather than the fact that the local authorities, administered by labour not only let their constituents down but put the public at huge risk.

could always blame thatcher though !
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 19:50
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I would imaging the arse covering took place slightly higher up the food chain than the blokes in big boots and pointy hats,first thing the chaps behind desks think when the stuff hits the fan, "am I involved? if so how can I disconnect myself and my little empire from same"
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 20:03
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The politics can wait for another thread.

I was watching Palace play on the day. Oddly, I don't remember who we were playing -- I ought to. Anyway, as the game started the word went round, "It's kicked off at Hillsborough, the Scousers are on the pitch." I can remember my mate saying those exact words.

No mobiles in those days. We had a laugh that the Scousers were running onto the pitch delaying the kick off. Then there was daft talk that there had been a couple of deaths.

The atmosphere sobered. I remember the buzz amongst the crowd as people tried to find the trannie addicts. At half time we dashed down to the supporters club. A dozen dead. Oh christ.

The second half was played in a weird stunned silence. God knows what the score was. The players were affected by it as well. We knew people were dying. They'd gone to a football match like us, and they were dying.

Full time. 50 dead.

The usual post game laugh and pint didn't happen. We went home to tune in to the news. We all knew nothing would ever be the same again.

But we also all agreed that the fans would get the blame. Those of us who had been there knew what a good ground Hillsborough was. But it had been turned into a dangerous shithole.

The people who didn't stand on the terraces had no concept of what went on there and treated us with so much contempt that those of us that could afford it went to the stands.

The casual violence used by the police against away fans outside of London was accepted by us as the norm. The Yorkshire Bill weren't the worst -- that was the West Midlands, corrupt and viscious. I saw one cop i Wallsall attack a guy we called Sugar who had gone into a diabetic coma. That was really brave.

All football fans knew there would be a cover up. The disgrace is that its taken so long to admit it and that it was far bigger than even I imagined it would be.

I will never forget that day. It changed football for ever.

Edited to change East to West Midlands. Sorry.

Last edited by angels; 13th Sep 2012 at 07:22.
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 20:17
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Angels,

I think you've captured the horror of that day exactly as all true football fans remember it. Well said...

Last edited by NWSRG; 12th Sep 2012 at 20:17.
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 20:43
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There has been much said about what happened on the day but not about what led up to it.

My recollection is that a custom had built up where a number of fans would turn up to matches without tickets and the police would let them in to avoid trouble for local residents, and that this escalated to the point where the sheer numbers made it unsafe.
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 21:22
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There are manifest faults revealed today, but I remember all too clearly the girls on the farm having to come in off the roads due to the boorish behaviour, and leering comments made that morning, as fans headed over to Sheffield.

Anyone who saw the pushing crushing mass at Leppings Lane knows only too well - there were going to be fatalities that day - the question was whether it would be outside the turnstiles or inside.

Whether the police could have restricted and controlled that entrance who knows, but if there had been controlled adult behaviour and quiet patient queueing outside there wouldn't have been the dilemna which created the context for these mistakes in the first place.

But its football isn't it - and anything is excusable - drunks making public transport unusable every weekend. Passers by being insulted and sworn at because they have no interest in a team, possibly from hundreds of miles away. obscenely paid players prowling city streets and simply driving through other road users - time and again.

If its a game - you can keep these aspects of it!
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Old 12th Sep 2012, 22:22
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Thank you Angels. I was one of those waiting to hear about someone I knew to have been at the match - not a pleasant time. He was safe and well but sadly someone else, whom I had met when he was a small baby, was one of the victims. The Bradford fire was equally too close to home for comfort.
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