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Hillsborough

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Hillsborough

Old 29th Apr 2016, 19:28
  #341 (permalink)  
 
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Apparently the coroner specifically excluded events from outside the ground when starting the inquest i.e. he would not accept evidence of the behaviour of the crowd making their way to the ground. That in itself doesn't change my opinion that Duckenfield was responsible for the deaths but it does mean that some of the events which led to his decision were excluded.
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Old 29th Apr 2016, 19:34
  #342 (permalink)  
 
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This isn't difficult.
Crowds are dangerous and have to be controlled.
This crowd was under control until gates were opened.
After the event those responsible for control, and the gates, tampered with evidence, lied, and coerced colleagues.
Chat away to your heart's content.
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Old 29th Apr 2016, 19:48
  #343 (permalink)  
 
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Chat away to your heart's content.
How very gracious of you.
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Old 29th Apr 2016, 19:53
  #344 (permalink)  
 
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Gracias. Any thing else to add ?
Post 291.
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Old 29th Apr 2016, 20:25
  #345 (permalink)  
 
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Pace
But to say that a PORTION of the fans carried no blame is If not tell me what caused that Tsunami of people ?
I understand that you are susceptible to right wing media agenda, and you will continue to bang that turgid, heartless, cynical drum but repeating the same proven rubbish will not make it true.

Both the Taylor Report and the in quest said that both South Yorkshire police and Sheffield Wednesday failed to prepare for controlling the arrival of a large number of fans in a short period. Both the club and police should have realised the turnstile area could not easily cope with the large numbers demanded of it.

South Yorkshire Police had enough experience of crowd control should have known better and institutionally failed to control this crowd. That in itself is bad enough, but the actions of senior commanders and Tory politicians in the aftermath is particularly heinous, cynical and callous.
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Old 29th Apr 2016, 20:33
  #346 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by G-AWZK View Post
They saw the cctv footage heard from hundreds of witnesses and still verdict remains the same. The jury quite categorically said the behaviour of Liverpool supporters did not cause or contribute to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles.

I really do not understand your utter inability to comprehend the fact that the police and owners of the football ground comprehensively failed to understand that 10,100 tickets had been sold and that just 7 turnstiles would not be able to cope with the arrival of such a large crowd.

There may well have been small groups of people who would try to get into the ground without tickets but the numbers would have been so insignificant amongst over 10,000 people that it would not have had any influence on the crush - at all.

This has been borne out not just in the recent inquest but also by the Taylor report as well.

SFFP, I do understand that you know all, and that your insight into this matter rises above both Lord Taylor and the jury at the inquest, but can't you just for once actually admit you have it wrong? 96 people died, unnecessarily and the SYP have been shown, in a court of law, to be the culpable party.

I really do have difficulty with nastiness that the right wingers have on this issue and that they can stand so rigidly by the Thatcherite mantra of the time - despite the facts being presented right in front of them. It just consolidates the impression that Tories are heartless ignoramuses.
Did they hear any evidence from any of those 100 or so supporters who jumped through that one turnstile alone and into into the disaster that was that day.

Did they hear any evidence from anyone who was in the queue and had consumed enough alcohol to cloud their judgement?

Massively simple questions.....
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Old 29th Apr 2016, 20:38
  #347 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
This isn't difficult.
Crowds are dangerous and have to be controlled.
This crowd was under control until gates were opened.
After the event those responsible for control, and the gates, tampered with evidence, lied, and coerced colleagues.
Chat away to your heart's content.
If the crowd was under control why open the gate?
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Old 29th Apr 2016, 20:45
  #348 (permalink)  
 
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Ask a policeman.
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Old 29th Apr 2016, 20:50
  #349 (permalink)  
 
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Did they hear any evidence from any of those 100 or so supporters who jumped through that one turnstile alone and into into the disaster that was that day.

Did they hear any evidence from anyone who was in the queue and had consumed enough alcohol to cloud their judgement?

Massively simple questions.....
OK, I understand, you are going to stick to the drunk ticketless myth regardless of what both the Taylor Report and a 2 year long inquest say.

You are truly a God amongst men, to have such insight and understanding beyond the ken of both. I am deeply impressed.
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Old 29th Apr 2016, 20:51
  #350 (permalink)  
 
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Thought as much, think it through next time.
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Old 29th Apr 2016, 20:56
  #351 (permalink)  
 
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There has been 27 odd years of thinking already. A bit of panic, a decision, consequences.
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Old 29th Apr 2016, 21:01
  #352 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
There has been 27 odd years of thinking already. A bit of panic, a decision, consequences.
Right, thank you for clearing up the erroneous fact you had previously asserted that the crowd were under control before the decision to open the gates.

Was Confident you would get there with a little prompting.
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Old 29th Apr 2016, 21:09
  #353 (permalink)  
 
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Don't follow you. Crowds are crowds and are always frightening. That's why I stopped going to matches. But that's me. Others managed, standard stuff, police controlled. Day in, day out. But not that day. Why is the question. An exceptional crowd ? Peculiarly drunk ? Maybe just standard stuff inadequately handled. Have to ask, as this sort of thing wasn't a weekly occurrence, what was different that day.
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Old 29th Apr 2016, 21:16
  #354 (permalink)  
 
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A bit of research by Ppruners will reveal my previous occupation (I am now semi retired).


I have very little sympathy with dishonest - cover my arse - cops, especially those of rank. If those in charge on the day had highlighted mistakes and issues before going off duty I wonder if we would be having this discussion.................'to err is human'.


Human beings make mistakes, but stand up to those mistakes and be honest as to why the mistakes happened.


Despite the many cock ups, there are a great deal of hard working police officers out there who will go the extra mile to get the job done. I was there.
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Old 29th Apr 2016, 21:18
  #355 (permalink)  
 
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Yep, no problem with that.
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Old 29th Apr 2016, 21:20
  #356 (permalink)  
 
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You tell us, a crowd outside a ground so out of control that the opening of gates to avert a potential disaster outside the ground leads to a disaster inside the ground.

But apparently fan behaviour was not an issue.
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Old 29th Apr 2016, 21:23
  #357 (permalink)  
 
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But apparently fan behaviour was not an issue.
That is correct. The inquest verdict made it not "apparently" but actually.
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Old 29th Apr 2016, 21:29
  #358 (permalink)  
 
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Give it up. Some unique crowd. Not seen before or since. The animals.
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Old 29th Apr 2016, 21:30
  #359 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Alloa Akbar View Post
So the files are out, the fans were innocent and South Yorkshire Police are corrupt, conspiring, lying bsatards. 41 people potentially may not have died.

Fact.

Utter disgrace, so when does the prosecution of the Police begin??

AA,


I doubt very much if they are all corrupt, Think logically.
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Old 29th Apr 2016, 21:35
  #360 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by G-AWZK View Post
That is correct. The inquest verdict made it not "apparently" but actually.
So about that testimony from the turn stile jumpers, you located it yet.......
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