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American Sniper

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American Sniper

Old 2nd Feb 2015, 14:40
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Devil American Sniper

Good, Bad or Ugly [A film by Clint Eastwood]

Wadda you think?
Did commercial pressures override the subliminal messages this film was pushing out?
Was it politically correct to brag about this man's profession by showing him killing women and children?
Or
Did Clint genuinely believe the story was not only a great true story but one which needed telling in this way?
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 14:51
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I read the book and just saw the film. The book was written by Chris Kyle and a co-author. The film was made without any input from Chris Kyle.
Thus, the two are quite different in many ways.
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 14:55
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TC:
You and I saw the same movie, and it seems that we saw a different story on the screen. The movie is based on a real person's life and his own memoir (which has in some circles been criticized as less than awesome with truthfulness on various details.) The harsher elements of war are certainly portrayed in this film.

RG:
I believe that Chris Kyle was involved (before he got shot and killed) in the early work of translating his book into a movie. Saying he had no input seems an overstatement.

Both:
Eastwood is a very good director who tells stories about imperfect people. The movie was pretty good, but you could now and again look at a moment and shout "Hollywood moment!" more often than in his best work. (For example, this movie wasn't as good as Gran Torino).

TC:
Something a lot of folks don't "get" is that to be any good at that military stuff for real, one has to get into it. Total immersion, if one is to be any good. (The SEALs are an extreme case even of that, in some ways). War is a disturbing human phenomenon, being an exercise in intramural homicide, so one should not be surprised that a film about a war will have disturbing scenes/moments. To the point of your kvetch ... if the kid has the grenade and is going after friendlies, he's a hostile combatant. You might want to learn the Laws of Armed Conflict before you go off on that topic. You will note that the director covers the follow up of that particularly jarring introduction to urban combat if you were paying attention to the film. Maybe you didn't.

Point second: if a guy is trained as a sniper, then one would expect his story to be about sniping -- which it is, but the story is more rounded than that.
Eastwood spends less time on the phony moralizing that you are looking for.
Your soap box is noted.
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 15:02
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Reckon Jack says it all here.
But then Marlon gives him the perfect answer.
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 15:09
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Movies are made to make money.

The number made to tell a true and accurate story is almost zero.

In War movies, truth is the first casualty.
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 15:21
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If you want to make a war movie you get Spielberg to direct it.
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 15:32
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Or Sam Peckinpah.
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 15:45
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Hmmm seems like we can more than match the American chap, see link.


British Royal Marine is world's deadliest sniper - Telegraph
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 15:52
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The longest-range kill is held by a Canadian sniper. 2,430m.
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 16:22
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Finnish sniper

Simo Häyhä - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.simohayha.com
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 17:32
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Originally Posted by Hempy View Post
If you want to make a war movie you get Spielberg to direct it.
God, no. Saving Private Ryan was twenty minutes of impressive effects with two hours of schmaltz tacked on the end.

Now, if Peckinpah had directed it...
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 17:45
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Originally Posted by rgbrock1 View Post
The longest-range kill is held by a Canadian sniper. 2,430m.
Nice piece of shooting, that.
Fox:
Movies are made to make money.
Aye. Mission Accomplished.
The number made to tell a true and accurate story is almost zero.
All a matter degree: how close to true? How close to accurate? Some better than others, none "bat a thousand."
In War movies, truth is the first casualty.
Among the walking wounded, to be sure.

Ref the Royal Marine Sniper: Oy, there's some good shooting as well.
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 17:48
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One of my former colleagues graduated to killing Afghan and Iraqi terrorists whilst sipping coffee in a drone control hut 12,000 miles away in Nevada - now that's my idea of a long range kill
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 17:51
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Fox, my one regret is that I did not vigorously pursue that as a post retirement option when I left the service. I had no idea how much that was a "growth industry" when I was involved with folks in your chum's position.
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 17:59
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The facts of the Finnish Sniper (and the associated conflict against the Soviets) makes interesting reading.

Impressive!

More here:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 18:38
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I usually love Eastwood directing but there were times when American Sniper felt like "Team America"...
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 19:15
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Originally Posted by main_dog View Post
I usually love Eastwood directing but there were times when American Sniper felt like "Team America"...
How much time did you spend
-- in uniform in the Middle East?
-- in uniform at all?
--
Just curious. I had a similar criticism of SACEUR and his crew during the Kosovo op wherein NATO and the US bombed Serbia for over 70 days. His name was Clark.

One of the great strengths of our Military is the tendency to "go all in" on an operation.
Where the policy behind that op may be questionable, it would tend to amplify those flaws.
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 23:10
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Lightbulb

Lonewolf, you walked into that one like a blind man crossing the highway - didn't you bubba? But hey - you're a redneck, what did I expect?

Have you, for one moment ever thought about the paradox surrounding the film. It is by definition inherently contradictory in its very fabric.......

The reason I raised the issue was to see if others wanted to talk about it, the way I saw it. In particular the timing of the film after what happened in France recently with Charlie Hebdo.

It's not about the morals of war, the accuracy of the storyline, the fears and tribulations of a warrior - unless of course you are Lonewolf that is.....

It is about whether Eastwood was portraying one big anti war message, whether he wanted viewers to see "us" doing unto them, what "they" do unto us. At the end of the day he may be suggesting: what's the difference between Kyle and those killers in Paris? The film is littered with anti war messages.

I'll leave you with this to ponder over Mr Lonewolf:

".....Kyle was a young, working-class man who was losing direction in life when he saw people he identified with being senselessly killed on the other side of the world (according to the film he was radicalised by the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998) and decided to sign up to go and kill them back. Sound familiar? “I don’t see too much grey,” he wrote. “If I had to order my priorities, they would be god, country, family.” He was every bit as much a jihadi in uniform as his nemesis, Mustafa, was a soldier in casual wear....." Gary Younge, Guardian, USA.

Now, you've gotta go back and watch it again, because it seems from your rant, that first time around the entire film was in your blind spot after all....

War: Been there done that bubba.......off soap box.
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 23:59
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You just said a whole lot but didn't say a thing.

You're ready for politics.
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Old 3rd Feb 2015, 00:29
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Taki's Magazine: Michael Moore Blubbers About Clint Eastwood's Death Threat.

MICHAEL MOORE BLUBBERS ABOUT CLINT EASTWOOD’S DEATH THREAT
Severely overweight leftist filmmaker Michael Moore is known for making documentaries whose obvious agenda is to justify the very existence of severely overweight leftist filmmakers.

Moore has recently put down the hoagies and donuts long enough to criticize the Clint Eastwood film American Sniper. He claims it “perpetuates a racist sentiment to Arabs.” Moore has also has described Eastwood’s excellent Gran Torino as “awful (and weirdly racist).”

Moore has recently come forward to verify rumors that ten years ago at the National Board of Review dinner, Eastwood told Moore that he’d “kill” him if he were to show up at Eastwood’s front door with a film crew. Moore is doing this to win sympathy and deflect attention from the quite obvious fact that Eastwood would easily defeat him in a fight.
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