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Stay on the Outrage Bus! - VERDICT

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Stay on the Outrage Bus! - VERDICT

Old 17th Dec 2014, 22:10
  #161 (permalink)  
 
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Verdict ....

Markus Kaarma guilty of German student's homicide

Markus Kaarma, Montana man, convicted in death of German exchange student Diren Dede - CBS News
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Old 17th Dec 2014, 23:47
  #162 (permalink)  
 
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Seems the Jury and i agreed.

The Appeal will fail and the Home Owner shall be confined for Ten Years and with good Behavior will be out in about four years.

He will also be sued in Civil Court for Wrongful Death and lose.

The sad thing is the German Kid brought this upon himself by being a Thief.

That should be considered in the levying of Damages by the Civil Jury.
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Old 18th Dec 2014, 00:03
  #163 (permalink)  
 
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Why you think that?
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Old 18th Dec 2014, 02:01
  #164 (permalink)  

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Well for one, I'm not surprised and from what I've read about the case it was the correct verdict.
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Old 18th Dec 2014, 08:39
  #165 (permalink)  
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The emphasis in the local German papers seems to be on the reaction of the family: gratitude to the jury for convicting the killer of their son.

It will be interesting to see next what sentence is handed down. The minimum is ten years, is that correct, meaning four years with time off for good behavior? Then I suppose that is what Kaarma will get.

It's also interesting that the state did not charge the wife with anything, since she seems to have been part of the shooting in some essential way. There's anti-feminist bias on open show there, ignoring her role in the killing, but no feminists seem to have noticed.

In today's articles it was mentioned that the German prosecutors have asked for information from the States, hinting that Germany may still take some action against Kaarma. I wonder what action that might be. Perhaps it's information meant to assist the family in a further, civil, action against Kaarma.
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Old 18th Dec 2014, 08:59
  #166 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Boudreaux Bob View Post

The sad thing is the German Kid brought this upon himself by being a Thief.
The only person who knew why this teenager went into the garage is dead. Without some sort of proof it is just speculation to suggest his intent was to steal.

Had he been caught stealing he likely would have incurred a fine and been deported.

But he is dead.
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Old 18th Dec 2014, 10:24
  #167 (permalink)  
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Well, I think that shooting that kid was fairly judged, even though it's technically correct to say that he probably was there in the guise of a burglar. What he wasn't though, was a threat to the lives of Kaarma, his wife, and their baby, so that shooting him was seen to be wrong.

Next, I suppose, comes some sort of civil action against the Kaarmas, along with waiting to see what sort of sentence Mr Kaarma is given, and if he appeals the verdict.
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Old 18th Dec 2014, 12:25
  #168 (permalink)  
 
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The only person who knew why this teenager went into the garage is dead. Without some sort of proof it is just speculation to suggest his intent was to steal.

Had he been caught stealing he likely would have incurred a fine and been deported.

But he is dead.
Check the news reports where the dead Thief's companion told Police why the Dead Thief was inside the Garage then tell us it is wrong to call the Dead Kid a Thief.

The Intent was announced and reported to the Police by the Companion.

Under the Law, had the Dead Kid not been killed....he would have faced Criminal Charges himself.

Under the current Administration of BH Obama, he would not be deported in all likelihood and would have remained right here in the United States.

I shall remind you that even Flying Lawyer has stated we are all welcome to our Opinions here at Jet Blast and that is yours....and this is mine.

If the Dead Man had gone to a Corner Store and paid for a Six Pack of Beer, and stayed out of the Garage that night.....he would still be alive and none of this would have happened.

There is no way to argue that the Dead Man has no culpability in his demise.

Keep your eyes and ears open when the Civil Proceeding occurs and you shall hear that argued successfully by the Defendant's Counsel. The Defendant will lose in the end but the Jury shall find that the Dead Man contributed to his death by feloniously entering the property of the Home Owner and the financial award shall be reduced as a result.
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Old 18th Dec 2014, 14:07
  #169 (permalink)  
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That is all very well, Bob, but ...

Do you have a son of your own, one who may have been young and stupid?

Were you ever young and stupid?

Count me in on both of those. I think that my son probably was never quite stupid enough to enter someone's garage looking for "Hey! Free beer!" but if he had been I would want to have seen him, as we say, "tried by twelve rather than carried by six."

That may well have been a childish dare rather than the dead kid doing this on his own, some sort of "You don't have the guts to score a beer off that jerk up the street the way we all did," that the kid took up.

I once became a Federal Offender in somewhat that way, serving as "wheelman" to a rather misdirected friend who wanted to blow up a man's mailbox that had been blown up two or three times before. What a stupid thing to do! My only excuse is that I would never have thought of doing that on my own, which is no real excuse at all. I ended up having an interview with the Connecticut State Police over that one, my first real lesson in keeping my mouth shut, which, luckily for me I did.

How lucky for us that Mr Mailbox was not waiting with a shotgun, eh?

Perhaps I have spent too much time now hanging around with "liberals," but I just do not see any proportionality between stealing beer and shooting a non-threatening burglar dead.

When it comes to a civil case then the seeming fact of the dead kid having been shot in the middle of a burglary may well have to be balanced against the wrong done by shooting him. I guess we will have to wait and see about that, but that fact didn't seem to be given much weight in this criminal case. Next must be learning what sentence the judge shall give Mr Kaarma.
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Old 18th Dec 2014, 14:26
  #170 (permalink)  
 
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Yes Chuks I have been both young and stupid.

Yes i did some really incredibly stupid things.

But....I never entered someone's house at night to steal.

I was never that stupid or criminally minded.

The German Kid was both....stupid and a criminal.

Read back through the thread, I very early on took the position the Home Owner was wrong in his actions and would be convicted in Court.

That does not erase the Truth of the Matter.

The German fellow was a Thief and was committing a criminal offense.

Had he simply bought and paid for a Six Pack of Beer at the Corner Store he would be alive today. Argue how you want.....that is how it is.

The Jury confirmed the Home Owners actions were illegal and convicted him.

The Civil Jury will find for the Plaintiff but they shall under the Judges Charge will have to consider the Plaintiff's conduct in the event when assessing Damages. His criminal conduct will be a factor that reduces that Award.

This issue is not whether the attempted theft of Beer deserves the Death Penalty as that is an illogical argument as it does not relate to the facts or laws that pertain to this tragedy.

The arguments about this event were made in Court.

They revolved around the Home Owners actions in response to a series of Crimes in the neighborhood that the Police were unable to solve or prevent, and the Home Owners Illegal response to those crimes.

The German Kid was part of the problem....break-ins and thefts in the neighborhood. He did not deserve to die over his decision to steal Beer rather than buy it in a normal legal acceptable fashion.

When he entered the property of another during the dark with the intent to commit a Crime, he accepted all of the risks that come with that situation.

Why he did that can be argued but simple ordinary commonsense would suggest that if you are old enough and smart enough to be an exchange student to a foreign country....you should be smart enough to know right from wrong and that just as in Germany the same actions as he committed would be a crime in the United States.

That he happened to pick the exact wrong house of many to enter that fateful night is what Luck, Karma, Fate, Destiny, and Probability are all about.

He picked the wrong one. He might have had help....but he still made a conscious decision to commit a criminal act.

He paid far too steep a tariff for it but it was his choosing that led to the levy.

I bet you one thing.....young folks in that Town buy their Beer now and do not see the Five Finger Discount being all that lucrative anymore.
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Old 18th Dec 2014, 14:31
  #171 (permalink)  
 
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chuks wrote:

I ended up having an interview with the Connecticut State Police over that one,
My condolences, you poor bastard.
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Old 18th Dec 2014, 14:45
  #172 (permalink)  
 
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Here is an example of a similar situation but handled quite legally.

Sadly it was a a Fourteen Year Young Man who had to stand up to the Criminals.

They have forced the situation upon him where he will now have to deal with the fact he as killed another Human....and despite it being fully justified and legal he will have to deal with the psychological fallout of that.

The system fails the Citizens and we pay the price.

CMGd Video Player
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Old 18th Dec 2014, 16:39
  #173 (permalink)  
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If I was desperate enough for some alcohol and felt the urge to illegally enter someone's garage to see if I could get some beer, I might be tempted to do it in England where if caught by the householder I could get a bit of a kicking. Would I ever consider it in the USA where it's well known that many home owners are armed?
Not a chance in hell.

In reality it's no different to me being in the US and walking back to a hotel after having consumed a few beers. (something I have done on many occasions). It's generally not a problem doing this, but again, would I do the same in Saudi Arabia?

If you're going to break the law in any country, it makes sense to have a rough idea of what may happen if caught.
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Old 18th Dec 2014, 16:55
  #174 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Flash2001 View Post
US Law? For those who think that there is such a thing, be advised that most American criminal law is state law and thus varies from state to state. Civil rights stuff is federal.
I suggest you do a bit more research on federal statues and criminal codes. The book isn't that thin. However, I agree with your point on there being significant differences in jurisdictions.
@sprintman
Should be 25 years!
You don't get a vote. You weren't on the jury, and you weren't the presiding judge.
Deal with it. What I read in the on line paper's report was
Dede’s parents will give a victim’s impact statement in the courtroom and McLean
will set bail for Kaarma on Thursday at 10 a.m. Under state sentencing
guidelines, Kaarma faces prison time of "not less than 10 years and not more
than 100."
Did you not also read that? It was in Flying Lawyer's first link.
I also note that the verdict was on a charge of "deliberate homicide" not 'negligent homicide' so I guessed wrong on that.

Here's my abbreviated take on this story:
That kid is dead because he's stupid, and that man who shot him is stupid.
That man is going to jail because he's stupid.
No winners in any of this.
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Old 18th Dec 2014, 16:59
  #175 (permalink)  
 
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419 wrote:

If I was desperate enough for some alcohol and felt the urge to illegally enter someone's garage to see if I could get some beer, I might be tempted to do it in England where if caught by the householder I could get a bit of a kicking. Would I ever consider it in the USA where it's well known that many home owners are armed?
Better not come 'round my home then. You can steal anything you like out of my home, including the wife if you'd like, but my beer? NEVER. Shoot on sight for that crime.
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Old 18th Dec 2014, 17:01
  #176 (permalink)  
 
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Care to post some photos of the Missus?
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Old 18th Dec 2014, 17:07
  #177 (permalink)  
 
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Bob,

I could but I'll make you a deal. I'll post the photo AFTER I send her to a specific address in Louisiana.
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Old 18th Dec 2014, 17:35
  #178 (permalink)  
 
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Back to the OP: the outrage bus boarded by some "across the ponders" looks to have again been the standard error in judgment.
The day in court arrived, and justice was done.

If some of you from that side of the pond would lay off of your kneejerk reactions to what happens on this side, you'd look less foolish.
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Old 18th Dec 2014, 20:27
  #179 (permalink)  
 
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Were you ever young and stupid?
As have everyone.

Societies for millennia have had issues keeping young bucks under control, and societies for millennia have developed ways to keep them under control, or at least to a manageable level.

The trouble with our new lefty huggy fluffy society is they have been able to run amuck, hence slowly but surely the "noise level" is increasing. Once upon atime the young bloke would have just gotten a simple hiding.

Once upon time police would etc. Now ? We have tried to codify to much, and in essence the police do too much lower level [email protected] that borders between social and criminal enforcement.

The end result is there is an explosion in lower level [email protected], and as such people are getting more and more frustrated. people shooting people in cinema for throwing popcorn in face, people shooting people for load music in car, people setting up traps to shoot people for sneaking into garage to steal what ever.

The end result is, things are only going to get worse, no amount of locking up frustrated Jo Bloh is going to stop that, the root cause needs to be addressed.
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