Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it?

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it?

Old 13th Nov 2014, 21:29
  #1701 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,955
Incorrect.

"To no [real] end" means to no purpose. It's not an idiom but literal.

The purpose of a question is to garner an answer.

"The end" means the final part of something.

Maybe the difference is too subtle for ya but there is one.
Lord Spandex Masher is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2014, 21:46
  #1702 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,642
Yah, I don't agree.
West Coast is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2014, 21:52
  #1703 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,955
That's 'cause you speak American.
Lord Spandex Masher is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2014, 21:52
  #1704 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 56
Posts: 664
"To no [real] end" means to no purpose. It's not an idiom but literal.
Exactly.

So when Americans decide for ourselves what we want to do regarding guns, we will inform you of our collective decision.

For the past 230+ years, for now, and for the forseeable future, that decision is every lawful citizen can decide for him or herself.

All the (crooked/stained) teeth-sucking in the world won't change that simple fact.
brickhistory is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2014, 22:01
  #1705 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,955
I don't think anyone has claimed it will. Good rant though.

Asking questions still has a purpose though so your quote appears to be out of context.
Lord Spandex Masher is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2014, 00:36
  #1706 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Back in the NorthWest
Age: 73
Posts: 111
The UK contestants in this duel to the bottom never answer a question, they just ask a new one.

The reason is, of course, that they are totally devoid of answers so they create a smokescreen by asking another pointless question.

To which LSM replies "You think so?"

This technique is a misapplication of the Socratic Question and is commonly used by the more slimy grade of politician and their emulators.

.
BOING is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2014, 02:09
  #1707 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 56
Posts: 664
Didn't get much traction the first time I linked this, so here goes again.

(And again and again and again, in necessary.)

The "less than 50 percent" meme was worn out trying to argue a pointless case by a ppruner with no standing regarding America, it's Constitution, the Second Amendment, or how we decide what we do.


The results of the poll showed that shockingly, 63% of Americans think having a gun in the home makes the home safer. On the other side of the coin, only 30% of Americans say they feel guns make homes more dangerous, and around 6% say “it depends.”

The results of the 2014 Gallup survey on guns were significantly different
from survey results in the year 2000, when the opinion was reversed. Back in 2000, only 35% of respondents said they felt guns made homes safer,and the majority — 51% — felt guns made for a more dangerous home. You can see how the public’s opinion has changed over the past 15 years.

Most Americans Say ?Yes? to Guns

Note the increase in supporters of a gun at home from 2000 to 2014.

From 30% to 63%. It would seem that one viewpoint is winning where it counts, among Americans, and that arguments for, and real-world observations, make the case.

brickhistory is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2014, 05:09
  #1708 (permalink)  
PTT
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 441
Yeah, polls like that are rather useless. What people "feel" and real world data are only sometimes the same thing due to things like marketing campaigns. "Are you safer with a gun?" is the real question, not "do you feel guns make you safer?". All your poll means is that groups like the NRA are making a better case to win people over than the anti-groups, not that their case is accurate. I'm a touch more interested in trends in how many actually own guns.
PTT is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2014, 07:41
  #1709 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,955
Boing, I didn't think you'd get the intended irony (Socratic), a bit like West Coast didn't either.
Lord Spandex Masher is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2014, 07:55
  #1710 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,955
Forty-two percent of Americans report having a gun in their home, similar to the average reported to Gallup over the past decade. This self-reported measure has fluctuated from survey to survey, but is consistent with trends since 2004. Longer term, Gallup has found that household gun ownership has ranged from a low of 34% in 1999 to a high of 51% in 1993.
Dated 7/11/14 - from Brick's link.

Most survey respondents report that the gun in their household belongs to them personally (30%), as opposed to another household member (14%). This means that about one in three people who have a gun in their home are not personally owners, but are aware the gun is there. The personal ownership trend has been generally stable over the past 13 years.

Last edited by Lord Spandex Masher; 14th Nov 2014 at 08:22.
Lord Spandex Masher is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2014, 09:04
  #1711 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oxon
Age: 62
Posts: 1,941
Which would imply that around 60% of US homes are gun free.


Which further implies that those folk who live in those 60% of US home feel its safe enough to go about their daily lives without the need for a fire arm to get them safely home each day.


Which further implies that only around 40% of US homes have guns but not all the folk living there own guns, only roughly 1 in 3.


Which further implies that a very large number of US folk are able to go about their daily lives without the need for a fire arm to survive.


Which further implies its a minority of US folk who feel they need a gun just to be able to function on a daily basis.


Which begs the question as to who is right?
Seldomfitforpurpose is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2014, 09:45
  #1712 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,955
I'd call that an own goal for Brick.

He can't dismiss those figures without dismissing his own as they're all from the same poll and he'll look pretty stupid if he tries.

Shot himself in the foot really.
Lord Spandex Masher is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2014, 09:50
  #1713 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edinburgh and 3C
Age: 68
Posts: 195
This self-reported measure
Yep; the figures can, to some extent, be dismissed as significantly under-reported without in any way diminishing Brick's statement.
MagnusP is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2014, 10:11
  #1714 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,955
Disingenuous. Try quoting the whole sentence.

This self-reported measure has fluctuated from survey to survey, but is consistent with trends since 2004. Longer term, Gallup has found that household gun ownership has ranged from a low of 34% in 1999 to a high of 51% in 1993.
Lord Spandex Masher is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2014, 10:13
  #1715 (permalink)  
PTT
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 441
Originally Posted by MagnusP View Post
Yep; the figures can, to some extent, be dismissed as significantly under-reported without in any way diminishing Brick's statement.
Why? If there's some evidence that it is being significantly underreported then that's fine, but you can't reasonably simply assert it is the case. So, what does "significant" mean and what evidence is there that it is happening?
PTT is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2014, 10:18
  #1716 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edinburgh and 3C
Age: 68
Posts: 195
The figures are based on people volunteering to report that they or their household have guns. Many people, including posters here, will say that it's no-one's damn business but their own. I find it highly unlikely that anyone would volunteer the information that they have guns when they don't.
MagnusP is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2014, 10:29
  #1717 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,955
You were asked for proof and gave your opinion.

Besides Brick's assertion that 63% of people feel owning a gun makes them safer doesn't prove, or disprove, that the number of people actually owning a gun is over 50%.
Lord Spandex Masher is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2014, 11:09
  #1718 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edinburgh and 3C
Age: 68
Posts: 195
You were asked for proof and gave your opinion.
Oh, dreadfully sorry. I sort of assumed that because you and Seldom gave opinions as to what the self-selecting survey meant, it was OK for other posters so to do.
MagnusP is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2014, 11:16
  #1719 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,955
I gave no opinion about the accuracy of the poll. You did. The onus is on you to disprove the figures, as per your assertions.

If you don't I understand why.
Lord Spandex Masher is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2014, 11:18
  #1720 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edinburgh and 3C
Age: 68
Posts: 195
Easy. Posters here have stated they would either not declare weapons, or have an unhappy fishing accident, losing all their guns in the lake. Are you now claiming the self-selecting survey reflects those?
MagnusP is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.