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A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it?

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A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it?

Old 12th Nov 2014, 00:04
  #1541 (permalink)  
 
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It's not obviously false.
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 00:07
  #1542 (permalink)  
 
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I will be tomorrow as a matter of fact. San Diego is where I live, surfing is a verb.
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 00:09
  #1543 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
So SFFP

Which way do you lean about Zap? Mexico or not, he's a liar by his own admission.
Are you off San D watching Sharks as you type..............false statement you big fibber...

Forget Zap tho and take a look at his assertions and my links and offer up a comment........
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 00:17
  #1544 (permalink)  
 
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SFFP

Big diff. Zap says he lives in Mexico, then he says he doesn't. I've confirmed where I live. I'm not hiding from something like zap.

Why don't you present the evidence? You're the fellow trying to sell it.

And then link it to gun ownership. That is what the threads about.
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 00:26
  #1545 (permalink)  
 
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Well, the thread has morphed into "your place isn't as good as my place because..." and then cherry picking some stat to support the statement.

So by the standards of this thread, everyone here should move to Singapore. The infant mortality is well below even UK's, as is the gun death rate. So the rational conclusion is that Singapore is a better country than our respective Euro or American environs.
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 00:26
  #1546 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
SFFP

Big diff. Zap says he lives in Mexico, then he says he doesn't. I've confirmed where I live. I'm not hiding from something like zap.

Why don't you present the evidence? You're the fellow trying to sell it.

And then link it to gun ownership. That is what the threads about.
I did present 4 links which so far you have SWERVED right round........

Suddenly a thread about gun ownership that you want kept on subject................did you ever mention the war in here
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 00:27
  #1547 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
Well, the thread has morphed into "your place isn't as good as my place because..." and then cherry picking some stat to support the statement.

So by the standards of this thread, everyone here should move to Singapore. The infant mortality is well below even UK's, as is the gun death rate. So the rational conclusion is that Singapore is a better country than our respective Euro or American environs.
You got it
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 00:50
  #1548 (permalink)  
 
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Zapata,

This conclusion from a new study by the Southern Economic Journal (paywall),

Yes, income is 24% less equally distributed here than in the average of the other 34 member countries of the OECD. But OECD figures show that U.S. per capita GDP is 42% higher, household wealth is 210% higher and median disposable income is 42% higher. How many Americans would give up 42% of their income to see the rich get less?
The point is, yes, more inequality, but Americans are far wealthier, far better paid than the OECD average. Also, the rebutted Piketty assertions by including Social Security, in-kind government transfers and found the lowest quintile was far better off than the Piketty study.

BTW, I don't care if Bill Gates is rich or John Doe is homeless. I'm don't need to be either one. This whole politics of envy is just a call to rob someone.

GF
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 00:53
  #1549 (permalink)  
 
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You know, if we exclude ludicrously premature births like the rest of the world does, (and which we are better at taking care of than the rest of the world). The numbers look a lot different.

Financial Times Gets it Wrong on US Infant Mortality Rates | Fox Business

But it's ok, keep making yourselves feel better by piling on.

If Mexico is such a great place, feel free to stay.
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 00:53
  #1550 (permalink)  
 
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I've been to SIN, way too expensive, too crowded, no shooting, not US.

GF
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 00:59
  #1551 (permalink)  
 
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This SFFP is why I haven't offered an opinion. An apples to oranges comparison sucked you right in. Mostly because its the conclusion you wanted.
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 01:25
  #1552 (permalink)  
 
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“Why don't you present the evidence?”

There is plenty of evidence.

There is a clear link between gun ownership (hand guns in particular) and gun homicide. You can highlight countries like Mexico that you think have stricter gun laws (they don’t btw) to further entrench your position and they may offer an anomaly to the data (which will always happen), but MOST countries that have lax HANDGUN laws also have HIGHER homicide rates as a result.

Cut and paste from before:

These are some of the most widely recognized studies conducted. All concluded the same thing.

Harvard school of public health:

“Case-control studies, ecological time-series and cross-sectional studies indicate that in homes, cities, states and regions in the US, where there are more guns, both men and women are at higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide.”

Boston University (most in depth study of gun homicide conducted)

Harvard Injury Control Research Center:

"The evidence is very compelling. There are more gun murder in areas with more guns, and more murder overall”

Journal of the American Medical Association:

“Conclusions and Relevance A higher number of firearm laws in a state are associated with a lower rate of firearm fatalities in the state.”

American Psychological Association

New England Journal of Medicine

“The study found that keeping a gun in the home was strongly and independently associated with an increased risk of homicide.”
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 01:30
  #1553 (permalink)  
 
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And I previously referred to the Dickey Amendment, which most gun nutters conveniently ignored. So I will ask this question:

The Dickey Amendment prohibits federal funding of research into gun homicide that may conclude that high gun availability results in high rates of gun homicide.

WHY DOES THIS AMENDMENT EXIST??????

Over to you gun nutters . . . .
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 01:37
  #1554 (permalink)  
 
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421: Sometimes the statistics boil down to something incredibly simple (or stupid, depending on your view).

Years ago I was on a provincial maternal-child health committee. Canada at the time. We came down to discussing the most basic of statistics: World Health Neonatal/infant mortality figures were based on deaths per live birth over 1000 grams birth weight. North American data was based on deaths per live birth over 500 grams.

There was no way to compare the data. Different denominators.

This has never stopped the do-gooders.
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 01:45
  #1555 (permalink)  
 
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"World Health Neonatal/infant mortality figures"

and . . .

"North American data was based on"

Yes, but MOST studies use the same yardstick. When using the same yardstick, the US looks virtually third world.
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 01:59
  #1556 (permalink)  

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Woo hoo, they're piling on now, coming out of the woodwork now they are.

Say Mods, no need for the US Hamsterwheel any more, this will do fine for the 'We hate Merica' crowd.
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 02:04
  #1557 (permalink)  
 
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Con Pilot

Great response, awesome. Typical of the gun nutter thought process.

Nothing.
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 02:17
  #1558 (permalink)  
 
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This from Wiki:
Note that due to differences in reporting, these numbers may not be comparable across countries; while the WHO recommendation is that all children who show signs of life should be recorded as live births, in many countries this standard is not followed, artificially lowering their infant mortality rates relative to countries which follow those standards.
On the same page, 2013 Estimates of infant mortality by UN standards, whatever they might currently be:
UK 4.5
US 5.4
Singapore 2.8

I rest my case. Meanwhile, most all America is pulling for the Euro space mission to be successful at landing on the comet.
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 02:17
  #1559 (permalink)  
 
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Watchout Con, you have an angry one here.
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 02:18
  #1560 (permalink)  
 
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I just found this, yes I know its old hand for some of you.

You guys have the coolest stuff, how do I immigrate? Instead of getting myself on old plot out the back of WA I can get one their instead and have more fun.

P.S don't say from Mexico, I havn't the complexion
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