Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it?

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it?

Old 1st Nov 2014, 23:11
  #741 (permalink)  
Dushan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
Guess I must have missed it so I will ask it again


Now the question I did ask was did you and others think a system that allows Mrs Lanza to act as she did is fit for purpose.
That wasn't the exact question you asked but I replied at the top of the hour. This is what you asked:

Quote:
Are you seriously suggesting that a system that allows such a thing to happen is not flawed?
And I answered:

It's unfortunate that it happened, but my or Brick's, or Ben's or GF's guns had nothing to do with it. Changing the system that would punish and inconvenience us because of her is flawed.
 
Old 1st Nov 2014, 23:20
  #742 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Back in the NorthWest
Age: 73
Posts: 111
Now the question I did ask was did you and others think a system that allows Mrs Lanza to act as she did is fit for purpose.
The first question this raises is what the heck are you talking about?
"to act as she did is fit for purpose".

Are you talking about meeting the purposes of the Skygod who needed more sacrifices?

Are you talking about her need to find some interest for her son?

What system, there is no system designed to help mentally effected children who may decide to kill someone. There is not even a system in place to help these kids learn to tie their shoelaces.

Do you mean the legal system? Don't bother. The legal system was prevented from intervening in mental health cases years ago under pressure from the "touchy feelies". You need a full-blown court order now.

Who is going to decide in advance if her actions were wise? Perhaps if she had been on this forum you could have provided all the answers.

She did the best she could with her problems, her ability and her options. And you, Sir, are a pompous rat for second guessing her best intentions although in retrospect they may have had tragic consequences.

Remember the Charge of the Light Brigade, Arnhem, the stupidity of George III, all judgmental disasters approved by hordes of planners and supposedly great leaders and you question the errors made by one, single parent, mother with a difficult child.





.
BOING is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2014, 23:20
  #743 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oxon
Age: 62
Posts: 1,941
Originally Posted by Dushan View Post
That wasn't the exact question you asked but I replied at the top of the hour. This is what you asked:


It was read post #728

And I answered:

What about this one


How does telling her its not right to keep your guns at home if your child is mentally ill, its not right to teach a mentally ill child how to operate assault weapon etc punish millions????????????
Seldomfitforpurpose is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2014, 23:22
  #744 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oxon
Age: 62
Posts: 1,941
Originally Posted by BOING View Post
"to act as she did is fit for purpose".

As in do you think the 2nd was written with Mrs Lanza in mind?
Seldomfitforpurpose is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2014, 23:30
  #745 (permalink)  
Dushan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
That's the beauty of it. It wasn't yet it applied.
 
Old 1st Nov 2014, 23:32
  #746 (permalink)  
Dushan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
What about this one


How does telling her its not right to keep your guns at home if your child is mentally ill, its not right to teach a mentally ill child how to operate assault weapon etc punish millions????????????
This gibberish makes absolutely no sense. Are you with Caco?
 
Old 1st Nov 2014, 23:33
  #747 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oxon
Age: 62
Posts: 1,941
Originally Posted by Dushan View Post
That's the beauty of it. It wasn't yet it applied.

And the outcome was?
Seldomfitforpurpose is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2014, 23:34
  #748 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oxon
Age: 62
Posts: 1,941
Originally Posted by Dushan View Post
This gibberish makes absolutely no sense. Are you with Caco?

Nope, the very simple question I ask is should Mrs Lanza have been allowed to own guns?
Seldomfitforpurpose is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2014, 23:40
  #749 (permalink)  
Dushan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
"the right of the people (including Mrs. Lanza) to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

So you see, she cannot "be allowed", she has that right already. The government is not allowed to prevent her, unless she broke the law, which she hadn't at the time.
 
Old 1st Nov 2014, 23:43
  #750 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oxon
Age: 62
Posts: 1,941
Originally Posted by Dushan View Post
"the right of the people (including Mrs. Lanza) to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

So you see, she cannot "be allowed", she has that right already. The government is not allowed to prevent her, unless she broke the law, which she hadn't at the time.

Hence Sandy Hook is a reasonable price to pay?
Seldomfitforpurpose is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2014, 23:44
  #751 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Back in the NorthWest
Age: 73
Posts: 111
Now I am going to give you a break Seldom. Some may even call it a promotion of sorts although that is a matter of opinion. I am going to provide you with a substantial seat in Congress as a member of the Democratic Party.

Please feel free to explain to the audience, who I am sure will be waiting with bated breath, how you are going to change American law to secure your version of sensible gun regulations and laws.

Please bear in mind that there will soon be mid-term elections in the US and regular elections in two years. Republicans, who may be said to support the 2ND Amend. are presently in control of the House, Democrats, who are more likely to favor gun control are presently in control of the Senate. This situation could change in the election. Several Democratic senators from pro-gun states are facing re-election. If they lose their re-election bids control of the Senate may go to the Republicans who will then control both houses.

Now, I am sure that a man of your intelligence, lucidity and verbal skills can sway the American population to your ideas. After all, only 65% of them support gun ownership.

OK, give us your plan. No dodging, no smokescreens, no pointless questions, no arguing about spelling mistakes. Just explain to us the method by which the Constitution of the United States can be accommodated with the need to increase firearm safety under the present realities. Shouln't take you more than 30 minutes since you know so much about the subject.

Starting now, 4.44pm Pacific Time.

Good luck.

.
BOING is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2014, 23:52
  #752 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oxon
Age: 62
Posts: 1,941
Originally Posted by BOING View Post
After all, only 65% of them support gun ownership.

Shall we start by asking those 65% of folk if they think that allowing Mrs Lanza to own guns, train Adam in the use of guns and subsequently allow Adam access to her guns to go on to slaughter kids at Sandy Hook is something they support?


Then we could ask those 65% if they think a rule that precluded Mrs Lanza from doing as she did would be that bad an idea.


Then we could put it to the masses and say what do you think....


And then you and Brick and Dushan would all say 'from my cold dead hands


And then this week at some school in America some completely innocent kids will get shot to death............


My solution is tell Mrs Lanza you cant have any guns unless you commit Adam..................but how do you reckon that's going to play?
Seldomfitforpurpose is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2014, 23:58
  #753 (permalink)  
Dushan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
My solution is tell Mrs Lanza you cant have any guns unless you commit Adam..................but how do you reckon that's going to play?
Now you're getting it sunshine. The leftie granola crunchers will be up in arms defending Adam"s right not to be committed until the last strap on their sandals becomes lose.

That's how it will play, and he would not be committed.
 
Old 2nd Nov 2014, 00:04
  #754 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oxon
Age: 62
Posts: 1,941
Originally Posted by Dushan View Post
Now you're getting it sunshine. The leftie granola crunchers will be up in arms defending Adam"s right not to be committed until the last strap on their sandals becomes lose.

That's how it will play, and he would not be committed.

But you righties will defend Mrs Lanza's right to own guns, train Adam and allow Sandy Hook to happen..................


Not very [email protected]@@ed up at all is it ................
Seldomfitforpurpose is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2014, 00:05
  #755 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Back in the NorthWest
Age: 73
Posts: 111
Seldom.

Bong, bong - loud bell and lost points for obfuscation.

Answer the question you were asked. Get on with the job that you were elected for, representing your constituents.

This has nothing to do with cold dead hands. You are about to change the lives of 320 million people. Those masses you refer to wouldn't know who Mrs. Lanza was if you asked them and then after you reminded them their response would be a puzzled look.

By the way, your Democratic party associates are going to be very PO'ed if you rock the boat in their pro-gun constituencies with your efforts and Harry Reid is going to feed you to the sharks.

Man up.

.
BOING is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2014, 00:07
  #756 (permalink)  
PTT
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 441
BOING
I am saying that the statement "more guns equals more deaths" is not true.
The manner in which you mean it (now you have clarified) is not a statement which anyone is actually claiming. It's a strawman argument. In the context in which it is always stated there is invariably an assumption of a good-sized population within which the guns will be - not necessarily evenly distributed, but certainly a population of millions as opposed to the one you mentioned.

My comment about the 20 children and 6 teachers was not an attack, it was an answer to Dushan's statement of "what more do you want" when he blithely dismissed the killing of the mother as "the price of her stupidity" without acknowledging that it was not the only price. Not by a long shot.
Those masses you refer to wouldn't know who Mrs. Lanza was if you asked them and then after you reminded them their response would be a puzzled look.
That's a sad indictment.
PTT is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2014, 00:15
  #757 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oxon
Age: 62
Posts: 1,941
Originally Posted by BOING View Post
Seldom.

Bong, bong - loud bell and lost points for obfuscation.

Answer the question you were asked. Get on with the job that you were elected for, representing your constituents.

This has nothing to do with cold dead hands. You are about to change the lives of 320 million people. Those masses you refer to wouldn't know who Mrs. Lanza was if you asked them and then after you reminded them their response would be a puzzled look.


Really, I suspect if you asked most folk over here about Dunblane they would remember the slaughter of a class of school kids. Perhaps where you are that is so normal an event no one cares any more but over here thing are a bit different,

By the way, your Democratic party associates are going to be very PO'ed if you rock the boat in their pro-gun constituencies with your efforts and Harry Reid is going to feed you to the sharks.

Man up.

.

Mrs Lanza you are not permitted to own a gun, unless you commit Adam........
Seldomfitforpurpose is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2014, 00:19
  #758 (permalink)  
Dushan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
So you are going to pass this as a royal edict, George?
 
Old 2nd Nov 2014, 00:23
  #759 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Back in the NorthWest
Age: 73
Posts: 111
Yep, sad indictment but this is a big country where everyone has places to go and people to see so news gets old fast - mind you, even when the news was fresh many people would recognize the son but few the mother. That's one of the problems that is difficult to deal with. The poor farm laborer in the mid-west who works dawn to dusk does not get much reason to check on anything other than the price paid for corn. That's his survival you see and his World is twenty miles across. Really nice people too, no affectations, perhaps favoring your home town is not a bad thing.

You are wrong on the "more guns equals more deaths" comment. Over here that sound bite is used to frighten the undecided and it is MOST CERTAINLY intended to apply to the absolute number of guns in "civilian" possession although it may have another meaning on your side of the pond. "More guns, more deaths" is a frequent rallying cry against gun ownership.


.
BOING is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2014, 00:24
  #760 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oxon
Age: 62
Posts: 1,941
Originally Posted by Dushan View Post
So you are going to pass this as a royal edict, George?
Nope, I just offer it up as a suggestion, do you see any flaws in the notion
Seldomfitforpurpose is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.