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Gaza Thread Hamster Wheel

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Gaza Thread Hamster Wheel

Old 24th Jul 2014, 10:55
  #301 (permalink)  
 
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On the same page as. John hills story about the Jews picketing a JEWISH school was a story about Gaza civilians attack a Red Cross vehicle. Funny how only one story gets linked....


BBC News - Red Cross van attacked by civilians in Gaza
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Old 24th Jul 2014, 11:54
  #302 (permalink)  
 
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Bronx,

As you may also realize, the RNC/GOP at the National Level has made tremendous mistakes in its bid to retain its power. The RNC and Chamber of Commerce devoted over 50 Million Dollars in a "War" against the Tea Party and other Conservative Groups which form a huge base within the GOP. They have lost several important Primary Elections due to that.

In rejecting Conservative Values and those who endorse/support such values, they are losing that core support of the GOP.

No one has ever accused Riece Pribus or the RINO's of being "smart" but we all know the Progressive Republicans are clearly aware their brand of politics is out of fashion with the American Voter and have no idea how to sustain their control and at the same time present a clear choice to the Voters and thus flail around looking for any way but the right way to do that. If they are to "win" they have to "lose" control they so very much wish to retain.
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Old 24th Jul 2014, 11:57
  #303 (permalink)  
 
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Long list of casualties from 1938 to 1949, cavorting cheetah. I make the total around 720.

In Northern Ireland for the eleven years between 1969 and 1970 the IRA killed 1,219 civilians and 661 servicemen in Northern Ireland alone. This does not include the number they killed on the British mainland.

Even that number is insignificant compared with the number of deaths in the Arab world based solely on the victims being of a different branch of the same religion.
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Old 24th Jul 2014, 12:39
  #304 (permalink)  
 
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It would appear God is on the Israeli's side in all of this.

That or the Iron Dome systems are doing His Work!

Since the Israeli's have been able to build Iron Dome, does that mean it was one of these Miracles that have allowed the survival of the Jewish Nation over the Years?


Hamas Terrorists Complain, ?Their God Changes The Paths Of Our Rockets In Mid-Air? ? Universal Free Press
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Old 24th Jul 2014, 12:57
  #305 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by John Hill View Post
If the Jews were trapped in Gaza and the Palestinians had, well, Palestine. It would be the Jews firing rockets over the fence and you would be lauding them.
You are making stuff up.

That scenario is called a "counterfactual" and none of knows how that might play out, nor the various reactions to how it plays out.

It might have come to pass as you suggest, Israelis lobbing rockets, or it might have worked out as a "final solution by the Arabs" and the cleansing of all Jews from the holy land.

Or something else. We don't know, history didn't work out that way.

Bob, I seriously doubt God is on anyone's side in this matter. He more likely is shaking his head and wondering why nobody is listening to Him, but instead taking His name if vain for their causes.

In loose numbers, in Iraq, since Saddam fell, and based on news reports I get, 2003 to present, Iraq has been losing between 50 and 100 people per week, minimum, in inter faction violence. It varies with seasons, and in some cases it was suppressed for short periods by the coalition. With the coalition gone, that rate of intramural homicide looks to have returned, more or less. ISIS has somewhat changed the game plan lately, but it may be a spike.

Makes Northern Ireland look pretty tame.
Makes the Irgun look like real pussies.

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 24th Jul 2014 at 13:12. Reason: q
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Old 24th Jul 2014, 13:07
  #306 (permalink)  
 
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One thing is for sure....Iran would not be supplying the Israeli's with Rockets, guns, ammunition, mortars, explosives, and money as they do the PLA/PLO/Hamas/Hezbollah as they do now. Or would they support the Palestinians no matter the reverse situation as proposed.

If Israel suddenly decamped to the Yukon Territories I bet the Arab World would still be crying for their extermination no matter their absence from the Middle East.
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Old 24th Jul 2014, 13:13
  #307 (permalink)  
 
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Bob, I don't think so. If they went to Yukon or Madagascar or elsewhere, I think the Arabs in the Middle East would be happy to forget about them, and get back to messing with each other with all of that unspent outrage and energy.

Just a thought.
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Old 24th Jul 2014, 13:26
  #308 (permalink)  
 
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A bit like Vietnam then?
Nearly exactly like.

North Vietnam wore down the U.S. public via masterful media messaging aided and abetted by liberals with self-loathing for themselves and America.

North Vietnam conquered South Vietnam in such a decisive way that today there is only "Vietnam."

I am unaware of calls for pre-1975 borders to be reinstated.

I am unaware of the UN calling for war crimes trials following the North's victory and subsequent "re-education" for those in the South.

I am unaware of Europe in general, and ppruners specifically, spewing anti-Vietnamese rhetoric that is largely one-sided.

I enjoy reading history so I am aware of the thousands of years of loathing of Jews by Europe including pogroms, banishments, taxation, up to and including The Holocaust. To be sure, there is anti-Semitism in the U.S., but not nearly to the degree much less the literal wholesale slaughter throughout European history.

But I do not understand that loathing. I admit to not being intimately familiar with Judaism, but it does seem to be a foundational part of Western civilization and seems to fit in smoothly.

Meanwhile, a culture that is largely anathema to Western civilization is welcomed and is becoming dominant with the active participation of more of those same self-loathing liberals of Europe.
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Old 24th Jul 2014, 13:43
  #309 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Nats
……...I mean how dumb is dumb - duh, how stupid are we us humans?
.

We're dumb all over, & even a little ugly on the side.

You can't run a country by a book of religion,
Not by a heap or a lump or a smidgen.
Of foolish rules of ancient date,
Designed to make you all feel great,
While you fold, spindle and mutilate,
Those unbelievers from a neighbouring state.
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Old 24th Jul 2014, 13:48
  #310 (permalink)  
 
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As the WWII American GI noted of the various ethnic groups he encountered while overseas freeing large parts of the World from Facism, Mass Murder, and Slavery....Arabs were found to be the least liked or respected.

That was based upon Polling done by the US Military.

Perhaps the description provided in that Polling of the Arabs being shiftless, quick to steal, lie, and attack the vulnerable might holds far more truth than most would care to admit.

Thus, perhaps if the Yukon or other very remote place were the site of the new Jewish Homeland then perhaps they would seek closer, more readily available targets of opportunity especially if from an different Tribe or Muslim Sect.

I will admit mine was just a very hasty and not well thought out example.
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Old 24th Jul 2014, 16:05
  #311 (permalink)  
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" That was based upon Polling done by the US Military"

Do you have a copy of this Poll at all ?

Just to alleviate the suspicion a lot of people would justifiably have that the questions were not, in any way, skewed or biased with the answers offering the inevitable supporting response and, oh look !....."our Poll clearly shows" etc.

Not forgetting that for many Americans, being outside their State was probably as confusing then as it is for many to-day with regard to understanding other cultures and lifestyles across the globe.
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Old 24th Jul 2014, 16:20
  #312 (permalink)  
 
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I don't have a dog in this fight but ...

'The Moral Maze' a regular BBC R4 programme, debated Israel/Palestine last Weds.

Two interviews chilled me to the bone...

A British military officer working with the IDF commented on the 'Rules of War'.
He said those rules make killing of civilians legal under certain circumstances. Such as when the enemy is firing from schools, hospitals, shopping centres, car parks, etc.
Or when the enemy is using human shields.
Apparently those 'rules of war' require maximum care to minimise the necessary civilian casualties. He gave his opinion that the IDF have followed those rules since the Palestinian death toll is only 600 + , and it would be nearer 6000 + if they had not taken care to minimise casualties.

The other interview was a University Professor who specialises in human rights and has written extensively on the morality of war.
He said, in reality war is a barbaric de humanising situation where all semblance of civilised behaviour is abandoned. The killing of the enemy both military and civilian by whatever method is perfectly valid since survival and victory are the whole and only point of war. He endorsed suicide bombing, kidnapping, execution of prisoners, and killing of children, old people, civilians, indeed any enemy person. The Rules of War for this guy were a form of window dressing. There for use by the victors, enabling them to execute the losers leaders, and rewrite the history of the war to make it look like a great victory of good over evil.
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Old 24th Jul 2014, 16:24
  #313 (permalink)  
 
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Chips,

You will have to admit our Military during WWII saw a great part of the World while we were engaged in that Great Crusade and other Campaigns. The fact the Polling reported our Troops evaluation of the relative merits or lack of has nothing to do with your conjecture and everything to do with our view of what they ran into during their travels.

Even today we can look to Arab lands where Islamic Fundamentalism exists in large numbers of the Population and see very similar traits to that noted in the Poll. That mindset is completely different than our own and easily could form such a diverse view. As I see it, it is the radical Muslims who are the ones that are unable to show any tolerance or ability to assimilate other cultures.

So why would you be surprised by such results in a Poll.

I suppose when you have engaged in combat with well armed and determined foes of a way of Life you are defending might warp One's responses to a Poll but then that seems only natural in my view.

Hell fire, we still see Montgomery as being a Total Prick and that is almost 70 Years later!

He almost gave Denmark to the Russians due to his slothful rate of march at the end of the War when all serious resistance had ended.
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Old 24th Jul 2014, 16:31
  #314 (permalink)  
 
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The Professor gets it, vee tail, something a lot of other allegedly intelligent people do not.

Whether you like Hamas or not, to a certain extent they are in a fight or flight situation, per their own perceptual framework, and because their very being is tied to land, flight is not an option.

I am thus never surprised when they lash out. Given their situation, it is one of the few options they have to change, since they are powerless to change much else, having been dependents/dupes of the wealthier and more powerful sectors of the Arab World / Arab Muslim community, since the 1940's.

As I noted above, sucks to be them, and I'll suggest it sucks even worse to be one of the citizens led by Hamas in Gaza, particular any who did not vote for them ... Hamas won a plurality, not a majority.
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Old 24th Jul 2014, 16:37
  #315 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Toadstool View Post
Never a truer word The irony is indeed palpable.
Check your own baggage at the door before you start slinging crap at me, amigo.

I have no dog in this fight, but wonder at how it is that a nation wins four straight wars and somehow doesn't own the territory. That's pretty bizarre, as war outcomes go, from recorded history. (I suppose you could argue that they lose at the negotiating table, politics being the father of war ... )

If you bother to read my posts with your own biases and filters removed, Toadstool, you will see more objectivity than about 95 % of the posts in this thread. Your choice, amigo.
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Old 24th Jul 2014, 17:01
  #316 (permalink)  
 
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At least Hamas admits its goal
Which I guess goes for ISIS, the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and all the other Terrorist groups around the World.

Does that grant them legitimacy by doing so?
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Old 24th Jul 2014, 17:11
  #317 (permalink)  
 
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Which I guess goes for ISIS, the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and all the other Terrorist groups around the World.

Does that grant them legitimacy by doing so?
well at least it helps some of us to focus our hatred
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Old 24th Jul 2014, 17:29
  #318 (permalink)  
 
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Lonewolf_50
I seriously doubt God is on anyone's side in this matter. He more likely is shaking his head and wondering why nobody is listening to Him, but instead taking His name if vain for their causes.
Agreed.

Matari
C'mon Bronx, you know what "historic bigotry" means in the European context.
If you mean the disgraceful anti-semitism that led to the murder of about six million Jews by Hitler's military and its collaborators, bear in mind that happened 70+ years, and several generations, ago. If you intended to imply that those Europeans who condemn Israel's policies towards the Palestinians in recent decades are motivated by anti-semitism bear in mind that many Jews including those living in the US and in Israel do not support the Israeli government's actions.
I'm sure there are anti-Semitic folk in Europe just as there are in the US but they pale into insignificance compared with the disgraceful anti Moslem factions in the US, especially amongst extreme right-wing conservatives such as yourself, who wilfully fail to differentiate between Moslems and Islamic extremists.
Do you think anyone who condemns Israeli actions is anti-semitic?

Bob
One thing is for sure....Iran would not be supplying the Israeli's with Rockets, guns, ammunition, mortars, explosives, and money as they do the PLA/PLO/Hamas/Hezbollah as they do now.
I wonder how the extent of that aid compares with the aid the US gives the Israeli military but I guess you think that's different.
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Old 24th Jul 2014, 17:49
  #319 (permalink)  
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" So why would you be surprised by such results in a Poll."

Well, not simply because of the target audience but, and this is as applicable to that last term as it is with any target audience, the intension of a Poll is to garner information which can then be used, irrespective of the context, to support and promote the agenda of the originator of the Poll.

And the US Military, like any Military across the world, are perfectly adept at spin and disinformation based on what is presented as factual evidence ....lets call it a Poll in this instance shall we ?

However, I have a distinct sense of deja-vu here....your obsession with combat, the reference to a Crusade...all seem to resonate with a poster of a similar limited and obsessive perspective....re-incarnation may well indeed be the case therefore.

To save you asking, never been in combat in my life, and never will be or had any wish to be. Those who did so as a result of being compelled to participate probably had no intention of doing so either.

Those, on the other hand, like yourself and many others on here ( although I suspect more than a few are simply engaging in armchair warriors ) who seem to revel in the acts of violence war invariably produces, are, frankly, psychotic.
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Old 24th Jul 2014, 19:08
  #320 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bronx View Post
Bob I wonder how the extent of that aid compares with the aid the US gives the Israeli military but I guess you think that's different.
They are playing a newer edition of the "Great Game" once played by the Powers of Europe.

On the one hand, a Constitutional Republic acting through a proxy, and on the other hand, a Theocratic Republic acting through a proxy. Each is pursuing its own aims.
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