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Scottish independence Hamsterwheel.

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Scottish independence Hamsterwheel.

Old 16th Oct 2015, 17:11
  #10741 (permalink)  
 
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I'm all for independence for Scotland.

Let the Scots pay for their own desires. Let them make their own contributions to the nutters in Brussels.

I am against any more devolution. That sort of devolution just allows the clowns in their Guvmint to spend more of my pension on their own pensioners.
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Old 16th Oct 2015, 17:41
  #10742 (permalink)  
 
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..... and I suspect many south of the Border would be only too happy to assist in voting Yes if they could.
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Old 16th Oct 2015, 18:13
  #10743 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by renfrew View Post
I don't think you have any idea of the political situation in Scotland.
Under her leadership Scotland is going to be independent within 5 years.
Sorry Davros but I'm with Renfrew on this one, were this the Darwin Awards you'd be the dude who strapped himself to a JATO rocket and face planted the hillside with that insight into Scottish politics.

Sturgeon no popular mandate eh - what planet you been on? Any politician would chew their foot off to have a smidgen of her electoral rating.

What I don't get is why folk in England get so animated, precious and wound up about the Scots having a discussion about independence. It's almost as they take it as a personal slight, like what you don't want us any more. Hey if they want to discuss their future direction then that should be no reason to gripe and get all bilious, it's a democratic process after all. I've taken a look through the thread history now and some of the anti indi comments making constant Nazi references were puerile to say the least. What a horrible, tiny minded position to take
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Old 16th Oct 2015, 18:21
  #10744 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by malcolm380 View Post
..... and I suspect many south of the Border would be only too happy to assist in voting Yes if they could.
I think that may be why Sturgeon has had discussions with the electoral commission on extending the franchise next time round to include UK wide voters; a report undertaken by Strathclyde University Prof Curtice indicated that such a move would strengthen the likelihood of success.


On the statue front here my favourite Scottish statute - not Wallace but just as formidable:

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Old 16th Oct 2015, 22:11
  #10745 (permalink)  
 
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Joad/D88/etc returneth
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Old 17th Oct 2015, 05:46
  #10746 (permalink)  
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That statue in Aberdeen is, as people have said, very imposing.

As is the inscription which basically stops short.....just.....of saying "screwed over by the English"..

However, there may be trouble ahead for the SNP.

This is the narrative and thereafter comes the report...

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...ty-weird/10001

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-6DzKzmFtA

"What I don't get is why folk in England get so animated, precious and wound up about the Scots having a discussion about independence. It's almost as they take it as a personal slight, like what you don't want us any more. Hey if they want to discuss their future direction then that should be no reason to gripe and get all bilious, it's a democratic process after all. I've taken a look through the thread history now and some of the anti indi comments making constant Nazi references were puerile to say the least. What a horrible, tiny minded position to take"


That's an easy one to explain. Good old entrenched English right wing ideology at it's best, honed over time to the extent the trait is now genetically ingrained.

I would almost guarantee that, if you showed the population of London, and the Home Counties / S.East, an unmarked map of Scotland, a significant percentage wouldn't even be capable of marking Glasgow / Edinburgh / Aberdeen or Inverness......let alone Wick, Fort William, Oban or Ullapool.....to name but a few.....and I would also bet not that many have actually been to Scotland either.

In some respects this is actually a good thing because for those of us who have an open detestation of those so disposed towards English arrogance and antagonism towards the Scots, it means there is generally little or no chance of encountering these tertiary level species when visiting....... and enjoying.... Scotland per se

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 17th Oct 2015 at 06:08.
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Old 17th Oct 2015, 08:54
  #10747 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sadhatmo View Post
I think that may be why Sturgeon has had discussions with the electoral commission on extending the franchise next time round to include UK wide voters; a report undertaken by Strathclyde University Prof Curtice indicated that such a move would strengthen the likelihood of success.
The realisation that the Scots are never going to vote for Independance is apparently now dawning on Nic

Just a thought but the Westminster machine has out boxed the SNP during every round so the likely hood of this idea getting off the ground is as likely as a Yes vote
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Old 17th Oct 2015, 10:50
  #10748 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post

That's an easy one to explain. Good old entrenched English right wing ideology at it's best, honed over time to the extent the trait is now genetically ingrained.

per se

Never thought of it like that but I suppose I reluctantly agree; there is an underlying xenophobia in our national psyche. The likes of the BNP, NF and latterly UKiP tap into that I guess. I used to follow Chelsea and our National team back in the day. I used to love taking my kids along to the matches but we long gave up and have never been back since a certain element took over the terraces. The incident in the Paris metro was no surprise and characterises the arrogance. But that is another story for another thread I guess.
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Old 17th Oct 2015, 16:16
  #10749 (permalink)  
 
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As a foreigner to these parts I have a fair bit of experience in judging the strength and quality of acceptance. I must say that in the entirety of my time spent living and working in Scotland, and in the subsequent visits, last month most recently, I have not experienced the Scottish as xenophobic in national or personal character - the opposite actually. In England it is sadly an all together different experience - read through a few posts here and you will soon judge the tone.

As for Glaswegian's not being able to locate Edinburgh etc well there you go, case in point.
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Old 17th Oct 2015, 16:35
  #10750 (permalink)  
 
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Anyway while still on the subject of Scottish statues here's another of my favourites (King Robert the Bruce), someone who in Scotland is more celebrated than Wallace from what I remember:

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Old 17th Oct 2015, 17:08
  #10751 (permalink)  
 
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I have not experienced the Scottish as xenophobic in national or personal character
And yet many others have
In England it is sadly an all together different experience - read through a few posts here and you will soon judge the tone.
Again, your opinion differs to many others. This thread is a reaction to the arguments coming from the (mostly non resident) separatists, and hardly a reflection of alleged English xenophobia
As for Glaswegian's not being able to locate Edinburgh etc well there you go, case in point.
I genuinely have no idea what point you are trying to make here...
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Old 17th Oct 2015, 17:10
  #10752 (permalink)  
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Why is Mhairi Black pretending to be working class? I thought it was obvious - it's what Islington champagne socialists do - why should SNP Paisley champagne socialists do differently?
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Old 17th Oct 2015, 17:14
  #10753 (permalink)  
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sadhatomo 1:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krystal n chips:

That's an easy one to explain. Good old entrenched English right wing ideology at it's best, honed over time to the extent the trait is now genetically ingrained.

Never thought of it like that but I suppose I reluctantly agree; there is an underlying xenophobia in our national psyche.
sadhatmo 2:

As a foreigner to these parts I have a fair bit of experience in judging the strength and quality of acceptance.

So, which is it? Are you a xenophobic Englishman, or a foreigner who is able impartially able to adjudge the relative natures of the English and Scottish?
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Old 17th Oct 2015, 17:28
  #10754 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Why is Mhairi Black pretending to be working class? I thought it was obvious - it's what Islington champagne socialists do - why should SNP Paisley champagne socialists do differently?
Scotland's Harriet Halfman clone. Every utterance a gem of hypocrisy and spite.
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Old 17th Oct 2015, 17:59
  #10755 (permalink)  
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" Scotland's Harriet Halfman clone. Every utterance a gem of hypocrisy and spite."

Siti.....thank you for, well, such a superb and simplistic encapsulation of why the English are, quite rightly, perceived in the manner being discussed.

Jolly well done old boy !

As for alleged Scottish xenophobia, well, it's like this.

Since I started visiting and travelling around Scotland, in 1972, only once have I ever encountered such, and then only very briefly.... as in one comment, to wit, "you English ( born out of parental wedlock ) "...for no reason whatsoever. This in a pub on the shores of Loch Ness

There again, I've always been able to communicate with rational, humerous, sociable and intelligent people.

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 17th Oct 2015 at 18:14.
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Old 17th Oct 2015, 18:00
  #10756 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
sadhatomo 1:



sadhatmo 2:

As a foreigner to these parts I have a fair bit of experience in judging the strength and quality of acceptance.

So, which is it? Are you a xenophobic Englishman, or a foreigner who is able impartially able to adjudge the relative natures of the English and Scottish?
Foregin by birth ORAC, UK passport holder. So yes well placed I think to discern the various traits of Britishness.
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Old 18th Oct 2015, 20:33
  #10757 (permalink)  
 
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Er, some very novel thoughts on here. For instance, the idea that people know anything much about Geography.

Also, some wild ideas about actually wanting to visit Scotland. Why would anyone want to actually visit the place? It is either cold and wet, or lukewarm and wet and full of midges. Not to mention the little fly things.

(And, yes, I've been to all the classic towns, and quite a lot of the countryside. I still think the Caledonian club is better. London Scottish are rather good, too.)
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Old 18th Oct 2015, 20:34
  #10758 (permalink)  
 
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Business in Parliament event 29-30 Oct. Two leading Scottish entrepreneurs Rosemary Eribé, MD and founder of ERIBÉ Knitwear and Lesley Eccles, Founder and Senior Vice President of FanDuel will provide the key note address at the conference which will focus on the theme of ‘opportunities for growth – Scottish business priorities for 2020.’ Very important sector for growth in Scotland.
- See more at: Two leading entrepreneurs to address MSPs at Holyrood business conference - News & Parliament TV : *Scottish Parliament.
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Old 18th Oct 2015, 21:22
  #10759 (permalink)  
 
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As a Scot, working abroad for the last few years and looking back, the only feeling I have is a massive cringe.

I know the 'Scottish Cringe' is a well documented phenomenon, but I feel it remotely, not personally.

I'm ashamed of my Countrymen.
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Old 19th Oct 2015, 06:52
  #10760 (permalink)  
 
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From the BBC:

A level of 60% support for Scottish independence over the period of a year has been identified as a benchmark in making the decision over a second referendum, senior SNP sources say.

The figure is a "trigger point", but will not be publicly acknowledged, sources told the BBC's John Pienaar.

Prof John Curtice said it was the level the party should be thinking about.
An SNP spokesman said there would only be a second referendum if there was clear evidence of a shift of opinion.

SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon will not be drawn on whether a second referendum will take place while she is in charge.

But sources close to Ms Sturgeon said the benchmark was vital to ensure support for independence had become the "settled will" of the Scottish people.

"Six months of polls won't be enough," said a senior SNP figure, involved in the discussions.
Last time around, they polled a little more than 37% Yes vote among the electorate. Perhaps they have learned the lesson?

Anyway, what happened to the "once in a generation" promise?
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