Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

The Met

Old 8th Mar 2014, 08:25
  #1 (permalink)  
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,584
The Met

Bizarre - I cannot find a current thread on this, so here goes. If our beloved Mods have 'buried' it somewhere obscure, please move this one too but I would suggest a redirect would be a good idea.

1) Is it right that the Met investigate their own possible corruption/destruction and manipulation of evidence events?

2) If 1)= yes, do we know how far up the pile of monkeys in the tree Hogan-Howe was and is he 'clean' in this respect?
BOAC is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2014, 08:40
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 57
Posts: 211
Was trying to make a point about the Met with this one BOAC but your thread title wins on clarity.

http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/5354...-cops-met.html

As for the Met one can only say that the place is suffused with arrogance and complacency at the top to a great deal of corruption or self interest throughout the rest of the ever rotting corpse.

Caco
Cacophonix is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2014, 08:44
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: In transit
Age: 66
Posts: 3,059
As for the Met one can only say that the place is suffused with arrogance and complacency at the top to a great deal of corruption of self interest throughout the rest of the slightly rotten corpse.
I wonder if you'd walk into a Metropolitan Police station and say that to them. The presence of a few bad ones in a force of about 15,000 people should not, but obviously does, prejudice your view.
I hold them in the highest regard and always have done, but then, I'm not a criminal.
Capetonian is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2014, 08:48
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 57
Posts: 211
tree Hogan-Howe
Heard the man talk on Radio 4 and my immediate thought was that here is a man who believes his own press and who is the last person who should be in charge of any investigation or anything else that does not smack of narcissism and arrogant complacency. His disputed role in the Hillsborough debacle should have been enough for him to have been put out to pasture years ago.

Caco
Cacophonix is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2014, 08:52
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 57
Posts: 211
I wonder if you'd walk into a Metropolitan Police station
As a matter of fact I had occasion to do just that this year. The result was the kind of fracas you might not understand or enjoy but it left me encouraged by the energy of at least some of this force and £80 poorer upon my release the following day.

Of course not all cops are bad but some certainly share your kind of pompous complacency.

Caco
Cacophonix is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2014, 08:55
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: In transit
Age: 66
Posts: 3,059
Of course not all cops are bad but some certainly share your kind of pompous complacency.
Which probably explains why I get on well with them.
Capetonian is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2014, 08:58
  #7 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 7,054
I think the Met are a bunch of pussy cats. This is how to treat villains?
The real or the otherwise.
cavortingcheetah is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2014, 09:01
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 57
Posts: 211
Ah the South African police are something else again...!

Try this crime for example...

The murder fields of Marikana. The cold murder fields of Marikana. | Daily Maverick


Caco
Cacophonix is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2014, 09:15
  #9 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 7,054
The persecution of the ungodly and the use of reasonable and judicious force to deter the blasphemy of crime?
cavortingcheetah is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2014, 09:20
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 57
Posts: 211
The persecution of the ungodly and the use of reasonable and judicious force to deter the blasphemy of crime?
Reminds me of that line from Mad Max ...

I am the chosen one. The mighty hand of vengeance, sent down to strike the unroadworthy! I'm hotter than a rollin' dice. Step right up, chum, and watch the kid lay down the rubber road, ride to freedom!
I enclose the obligatory video...


Caco
Cacophonix is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2014, 09:28
  #11 (permalink)  
Resident insomniac
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N54 58 34 W02 01 21
Age: 75
Posts: 1,859
Hearing various senior police officers commenting on the current situation highlighted their ability to smarm with weasel words whilst avoiding admitting that there might have been any dodgy dealings.

I'm sure that they are trained in such evasive speech techniques.
G-CPTN is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2014, 09:44
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,421
The presence of a few bad ones in a force of about 15,000 people
That's the kind of c**p that has allowed the situation to get worse, not better, over the last 40 years.

The MI6 officer in a British Embassy, disguised as a First Secretary, was a friend of ours in the early 1970's. He had a previous career teaching in an Inner London comprehensive school, and carried the scars. When someone once said in his hearing, "The British Police are wonderful" as people of a certain type once did, he rounded on him with fury, saying;

"It's people like you, whom the Police salute and call Sir, who need to realise that the Metropolitan Police, at least, routinely lie on oath, manufacture evidence, take bribes, beat prisoners up in cells, use unnecessary force whenever they feel like it, cover up for each other, lose evidence that disproves their case, and are institutionally racist and corrupt. A few, very few, are honest but they are pressured by the majority to go along with what they see or face the consequences, usually a trumped-up disciplinary charge and dismissal. To 80% of the population they are a feared enemy, and you stand there, you pompous, well-spoken prat, and say they are "wonderful".

They words are not verbatim, but he said all of that and more, and walked out of the party.

It opened my eyes, and everything that has happened in the intervening 40 years has proved that he knew what he was talking about, which he had learned from his 10 years teaching in the East End.

So I say the same to you; it is not "a few bad ones"; it is the majority and that's the problem London faces now, today. It is not history to be swept under the carpet with some bland reassurances like "lessons will be learned".

Why else do you think that officers with an appalling record of failure, corruption or misconduct occupy senior positions instead of being in prison or the dole queue?
Capot is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2014, 10:15
  #13 (permalink)  
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,584
Well, having heard H-H say on the BBC that there was no-one better than him to conduct the Met internal enquiry, and discovering his previous association with the Met during his career (once apparently, briefly Assistant Commissioner responsible for professional standards!!) I would vote for his having no part in any internal investigation but probably being investigated himself.
BOAC is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2014, 14:59
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: A home for the bewildered
Posts: 86
Why else do you think that officers with an appalling record of failure,
corruption or misconduct occupy senior positions instead of being in prison or
the dole queue?
Because they're masons.

And because the really senior ones answer to ACPO, rather than to the political or judicial systems.


GrumpyOldFart is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2014, 15:01
  #15 (permalink)  

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Northumberland, UK
Age: 56
Posts: 293
Count me as one of the 80%. Was in the unfortunate position a few years ago of witnessing misconduct by two police officers (UK, not Met). Reminded me of the cartoon of two officers under investigation, where the one points to the other and says, "He is innocent", while the other points back and says, "So is he". Quietly dropped the complaint as it was obvious that it would be unhealthy to continue. Just about did in any trust I felt towards the police.

This is not to say that they do a difficult job. It is just that whenever I have been with police in a social situation they have, with one noteworthy exception, been the worst bullstting pseudo-alpha types I have ever met. Ironically, the exception is a very senior former police officer who has a CV includes the Met.

Also once went drinking with a Russian police officer in a Russian regional town a long way from Moscow. Learnt a lot there as well. They might be corrupt, except that there was no bullst to pretend otherwise.

Originally Posted by Capot View Post
That's the kind of c**p that has allowed the situation to get worse, not better, over the last 40 years.

The MI6 officer in a British Embassy, disguised as a First Secretary, was a friend of ours in the early 1970's. He had a previous career teaching in an Inner London comprehensive school, and carried the scars. When someone once said in his hearing, "The British Police are wonderful" as people of a certain type once did, he rounded on him with fury, saying;

"It's people like you, whom the Police salute and call Sir, who need to realise that the Metropolitan Police, at least, routinely lie on oath, manufacture evidence, take bribes, beat prisoners up in cells, use unnecessary force whenever they feel like it, cover up for each other, lose evidence that disproves their case, and are institutionally racist and corrupt. A few, very few, are honest but they are pressured by the majority to go along with what they see or face the consequences, usually a trumped-up disciplinary charge and dismissal. To 80% of the population they are a feared enemy, and you stand there, you pompous, well-spoken prat, and say they are "wonderful".

They words are not verbatim, but he said all of that and more, and walked out of the party.

It opened my eyes, and everything that has happened in the intervening 40 years has proved that he knew what he was talking about, which he had learned from his 10 years teaching in the East End.

So I say the same to you; it is not "a few bad ones"; it is the majority and that's the problem London faces now, today. It is not history to be swept under the carpet with some bland reassurances like "lessons will be learned".

Why else do you think that officers with an appalling record of failure, corruption or misconduct occupy senior positions instead of being in prison or the dole queue?
Evening Star is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2014, 15:56
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,421
Because they're masons.
You're not wrong; membership of the right lodge is a pre-requisite to promotion in the Met, and many other Forces if not all of them, and the same membership will ensure that if a member screws up the lodge rallies round.

And because the really senior ones answer to ACPO
Ah yes, ACPO, the biggest threat to civil liberties that the UK faces. A secretive association of 400 or so unelected, right-wing police officers, funded by taxpayers without their agreement. ACPO dictates the Government's policing agenda, and deals with anyone who steps put of line by harassment and intimidation. ACPO was behind much of the shenanigens over Andrew Mitchell, including orchestrating the public denials to the Select Committee. ACPO decides which laws are going to be enforced and which are not.

So far as I know, not one, not one Police Commissioner has had the balls to challenge the funding of ACPO from their Police Force budgets. This tells you all you need to know about these useless and sometimes corrupt elected nonentities, and all you need to know about ACPO's power to shut them up.

If you want to do some good, write to your Police Commissioner demanding that he explain why it is essential to use rate-payers' funds to sustain ACPO, in the absence of any legal obligation to do so. When you are ignored or given a brush-off response, keep pressing and copy all documents to MPs, Select Committees, Home Office, local and national press etc etc.
Capot is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2014, 16:02
  #17 (permalink)  
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,584
Thanks, Basil - the lack of 'search' for 3-letter 'words' didn't help, but I suspect best to keep a separate thread as this one has 'legs', I think.

" A large hole has developed at the Met's headquarters - the police are looking into it............"
BOAC is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2014, 16:10
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: 50'11N 004' 16W
Posts: 282
My theory - the MET may have, and still have certain levels of corruption within but - place any other business or section of the public sector nder the same scrutiny and I'm sure it would be matched. What I think has now occurred - after the St Steven debacle, is that it has become a sure-fire way to nail one's PC credentials to the mast and actively seek out any form of wrong-doing, possibly even fabricating it.

It really does appear to be the way ahead for a fast-track career and I believe it's part sacrificial lamb and part self-flagellation what it bringing much of this to the fore.

It would now be political or career suicide for any politician or higher-up in the police to suggest anything other than they were / are inherrantly racist & corrupt. The Lawrence thing grew legs and is now too big to fail.

I'd rather have a police force where a miscreant stood a reasonable chance of "falling down the station stairs" and that being generally accepted, as opposed to a heavily politicised force with no teeth that runs purely on targets and defending itself from spurious compensation claims from protesters who got a bit shouty.

And yes, I too have been around the world and had several "loud" runs ashore in places where the police tend to be quite punchy. I managed to stay away from having my head stoved also.

If you won't stand behind the police then try standing in front of them.
ex_matelot is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2014, 18:19
  #19 (permalink)  
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,584
ex - agreed, but the allegations here of collusion with the murderer's family and other allegations surely place this a little apart from your sentiments? A bit different to 'falling down the stairs'.
BOAC is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2014, 19:17
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: 50'11N 004' 16W
Posts: 282
BOAC - I really do not know. I only ever knew one member of the MET. He held certain opinions on certain high profile cases that were contrary to what could be called "The party line". I have since read enough dits on online forums by serving and ex MEt whose opinions appear to corroborate what I heard. I'm no longer in a position to contact the one who I knew.

I certainly believe Lawrence was no saint. That in no way excuses his murder though. His memorial was trashed shortly after the Leveson report, had white paint thrown over it. There was a CCTV camera overlooking the site. Naturally much outrage ensued...right up until the perpetrator was found to be non-white. The official line thereafter was that the camera was in fact a dummy, to save certain communities a bit of embarrassment after much gnashing of teeth. The BBC also ran a story on it - although a little different to what actually occurred.

As for Doreen and her peerage...She must feel a bit like "White D" off benefits street would do were she to be given a buckshee first class flight anywhere. If she achieves her aim do you think she will be content?...Not a chance - her living now depends on Steven's "legacy". She has done quite well out of it so far.

Somebody else said on another thread - families of victims of tragedy or murder should be given no platform. They just keep on getting wheeled out as talking heads whenever suits, and opening up old wounds for others.

Edit - forgot the original point I was going to make - his reall killers are said to be still free and remain so as the Lawrence family would not wait and pressed ahead (against advice) with a private prosecution - where not enough evidence was found to convict. The ones currently inside are said to be mere accomplices. I don not know whether this is true or not.
ex_matelot is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.